From: MinFinance/s
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 10:40 AM
To: caroltapanila
Subject: Your correspondence
Finance Minister Oliver’s Letter, Dec 4, 2014
*****************************
My response:
From: caroltapanila
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 11:17 AM
To: MinFinance/s ; Michelle.Rempel@parl.gc.ca
Cc: Matt Grant ; Murray Rankin ; Mike.Sullivan.P9@parl.gc.ca ; Nathan Cullen ; Patrick Cain
Subject: Re: Your correspondenceFinance Minister Oliver and my Calgary MP Michelle Rempel,
Thank you for your long-delayed response, which is nothing more than a form letter, personalized with my name, my email address and reference to ” 2013FIN398181; 2013fin400017; 2013fin401222; 2014FIN403230; 2014FIN404518 “.
i.e., not a mention of the Registered Disability Savings Plan that most of my correspondence to you would have been about, the US tax I paid as the Holder of my adult son’s RDSP ($3,661 USD) or the discrimination this applies to my son and others like him who is NOT a US citizen who happens to reside in Canada. You enable the US in their efforts by not placing a “warning sticker” on all Canadian registered accounts and mutual funds that every potential *US Person* must heed.
When will there be any US / Canada Tax Treaty that will address the TFSA, the RESP and the RDSP – and Canadian mutual funds for persons who are defined by the US as *US Persons*?
Pretty deplorable situation when Canada puts its banks before its people, especially the most vulnerable, who are “ENTRAPPED” if accepting the US definition of their US citizenship – when they never lived in the US or had any benefit from the US, my son for 40+ years of his life only in Canada.
I reject your Conservative government action as my Canadian-born son cannot renounce a *supposed* US citizenship due to lack of ‘requisite mental capacity’ and the fact that a parent, a guardian or a trustee cannot act on such a person’s behalf, even with a court order. My son and others like him would have no more requisite mental capacity to go to the US to get a US social security number to be able to back-file any US tax and reporting forms and pay for the same, all without influence from anyone (as must be done for a renunciation of US citizenship, now at a cost of $US 2,350, a sum out of reach of most of Canada’s most vulnerable). Note this ‘lack of requisite mental capacity’ would apply not only to Canadians defined by the US as having a US citizenship who also have a developmental disability but to anyone with a brain injury from an accident or a medical event like a stroke or to persons with an age-related dementia.
How will Canada protect such Canadians? And, if you won’t, why will you not? Shall I refer my bank to you when they ask the NATIONAL ORIGIN of my son – or to MP Gerald Keddy and other Conservatives, who throw back – “Just Renounce” as their uninformed answer to my family’s situation?
Regards,
Carol Tapanila
Calgary, AB, Canada
The law was written with a deliberate catch 22 provision. Anyone who would want to give up their citizenship must be crazy and anyone who is crazy cannot be allowed to do anything that would take a sane person to do, while not allowing a parent or guardian to do it for them, because crazy people can’t give informed consent.
I will suggest who is crazy here. We are crazy for electing such crazy legislators and they are so crazy they wanted to make a catch 22 provision for expats to keep as many as possible on the farm and paying them taxes they then use on money wasting projects to make some voter happy and get them a campaign contribution so even with a 9% voter approval they get re elected over and over.
I did a bit better with my request for info from my MP in the UK. He responded to my email the same day promising to take up my FATCA concerns and the IGA matter with the minister in question. In a short time there was a reply from the minister saying that FATCA was in the best interests of the UK,but not how that can be so. It does not seem to have been discussed in parliament at all and went through on the nod as far as I can see. No one has addressed the problems of dual nationals and accidental Americans at all and they have sold their citizens down the river as usual to the USA. It is all looking like the ill fated extradition treaty with the USA which is the source of much ill feeling and worry. I am working on my reply to both of them with a few home truths.
Its enough to tear your hair out. Trying to make money off of a diabled person. How sick is that? Hey- how about contacting Michael Moore? Maybe he would be a visible person to make a press comment – because he sure hates hypocrisy. He was the one who asked health insurance if they wanted to make a profit off of sick people.
I received the same form letter from Joe Oliver as well. He is just another Con propping up the Harper government which supports US and FATCA. This disgusting letter illustrates their weak and lame response to the United States imposing its laws extraterritorially on Canada and many other countries. It is a dangerous position to take in the long term. I hope the Cons and other parties wake up.
Yep, I got Oliver’s e-mail too. I reached into the computer screen, grabbed it, ripped it to shreds, tossed the pieces into the toilet and flushed. What an insult! Word for word the Con talking points and word by word a reflection of the lack of reason and integrity that Oliver and the whole Harper gang have demonstrated during their big betrayal of Canadians and their sell off of Canada’s sovereignty.
That was my first response. My next one was to write a cheque to ADCS and maybe it will even arrive in time for the Isaac Brock Society’s third birthday on December 12th. I hope others with the Oliver e-mail sticking in their craw will do the same. Turn your negative reaction into the positive actions of funding Ginny and Gwen’s lawsuit and celebrating the existence of the Brock community. Surgite!
Can hardly believe it was nearly 2 years ago when this was posted …
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/12/12/happy-birthday-isaac-brock-society/
It is a mass distribution. I received it yesterday in response to the joint letter Sandbox and Brock sent to Flaherty in November 2013. A year for some civil servant to write that?!?
Only one Con has been honest enough to call it for what it is. This letter took two pages to sum up what MP Mike Allen said in three words:
“Congress has spoken.”
Turn your rage to action. Donate to ADCS.
Thanks Mr Oliver for that BS you sent to my inbox. Reminds me of this episode of The Honeymooners
How can the Government of Canada be expected to protect Canadian citizens who wander into the USA? The boundaries of Canada are the boundaries of Canada. Simply don’t pay the USA tax and don’t wander into the USA.
I received the same letter today, my husband received his last week. Total BS!
Here is my reply sent to Joe Oliver with cc to Nathan Cullen, Murray Rankin, Scott Brison, Ted Hsu and Elizabeth May.
It’s become painfully obvious that our Conservative gov’t is out to lunch. They pretend that they don’t “get it”, but they get it. It’s just easier to throw us under the bus to save the banks and to not stir up trouble with the US.
The only way to fight this is through the courts. Give what you can to ADCS. Give till it hurts and help spread the word. I’ve noticed that the donations are beginning to dwindle. They were averaging about $1000 per day, now it looks like they need $1200 per day to meet the next deadline of Feb 1st. Hopefully this is just due to the Christmas season and donations will pick up in the new year.
“Simply don’t pay the USA tax and don’t wander into the USA.”
But sometimes accidents happen to the most innocent upstanding citizens so I suggest not even driving near the borders and never use UPS
Canadians arrested after allegedly accidentally crossing border in mobile meth lab
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/canadians-arrested-after-allegedly-accidentally-221027716.html
“While the story seems like one-of-a-kind, it is not the first time someone was charged after accidentally crossing the border.”
Oh Mr Oliver, dinners waiting
http://cdn2.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/lospollos.jpg
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This letter is also an insult to the late Jim Flaherty, the former finance minister, who was mainly anti-FATCA until maybe Harper muzzled him. Harper found the replacement he needed, another YES person to the guy in control. Totally ESY to USA.
Why would he write this letter now?
At least some of you have received some sort response, I have received nothing from my MP or the Finance Minister, Joe Oliver, not even a form letter. My email was sent in June. It is obvious that this government has no interest in serving the people it represents, it can’t even be bothered to address their concerns..
@ Carol It is despicable that your situation has not been given more consideration by our government. Good response to the form letter, I too asked about revisions to the Cdn/US tax treaty to protect our registered accounts and investments in mutual funds. This should have been part of their negiotations on FATCA, instead they got nothing.
Can someone post the government response? All I see is Calgary411’s response.
As a long-time Conservative voter, I need ammo to pressure my Conservative MP.
@ The Mom
Lynne posted it here:
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/letter-late-from-joe-oliver-on-fatca/
Click on first hot link (letter from Joe Oliver).
@ Blaze,
It’s good to see you fully back and in fine form. Hope your rehab is nearing an end and that you are or will soon be fully (physically) recovered. Hugs!
@EmBee, thanks.
The Mom,
I, too, just put a pdf of my letter into this post. Thanks.
Good question, bubblebustin. Another ‘play it again, Sam’ — this time from the Finance Minister himself (as opposed to what we may have already heard from our MPs or by listening to proceedings in the House of Commons and Finance Committee meetings) to further convince Canadians who Conservatives call *US citizens who happen to reside in Canada* that we have nothing to worry about because this is “strictly an information sharing agreement”. If I have nothing to worry about regarding my son’s so-called US-defined US citizenship status, I want Mr. Joe Oliver to answer my bank’s questions about my son’s national origin, if and when those questions are asked and if and when it is disputed what I say — that my son was born in Canada, has always lived in Canada and therefore a Canadian to be protected from discrimination by national origin of his parents.
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@Calgary411, “discrimination by national origin of his parents. ”
A new term we have to use, Brilliant!!
Heartsick: you may eventually get a letter. Mine was in response to a letter Petros and I sent jointly on behalf of Sandbox and Brock in November of 2013. (I don’t know how to upload that letter into a comment here, but I did upload it to a comment at Sandbox.
http://maplesandbox.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/FATCA-Open-Letter-to-Minister-Flaherty-25.nov_.13.x-3.pdf
We asked a Simple Question: “Do all Canadians have the same rights under Canada’s laws and our Charter of Rights and Freedoms?” It took 13 months for Finance to take two pages to convey”Congress has spoken.” (Of course, they already told us that in February when they announced the IGA.)
If they follow the same standard of response, you should expect a reply to your June 2014 letter in July of 2015.
@LM. Thanks. Still working on it.