From: MinFinance/s
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 10:40 AM
To: caroltapanila
Subject: Your correspondence
Finance Minister Oliver’s Letter, Dec 4, 2014
*****************************
My response:
From: caroltapanila
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 11:17 AM
To: MinFinance/s ; Michelle.Rempel@parl.gc.ca
Cc: Matt Grant ; Murray Rankin ; Mike.Sullivan.P9@parl.gc.ca ; Nathan Cullen ; Patrick Cain
Subject: Re: Your correspondenceFinance Minister Oliver and my Calgary MP Michelle Rempel,
Thank you for your long-delayed response, which is nothing more than a form letter, personalized with my name, my email address and reference to ” 2013FIN398181; 2013fin400017; 2013fin401222; 2014FIN403230; 2014FIN404518 “.
i.e., not a mention of the Registered Disability Savings Plan that most of my correspondence to you would have been about, the US tax I paid as the Holder of my adult son’s RDSP ($3,661 USD) or the discrimination this applies to my son and others like him who is NOT a US citizen who happens to reside in Canada. You enable the US in their efforts by not placing a “warning sticker” on all Canadian registered accounts and mutual funds that every potential *US Person* must heed.
When will there be any US / Canada Tax Treaty that will address the TFSA, the RESP and the RDSP – and Canadian mutual funds for persons who are defined by the US as *US Persons*?
Pretty deplorable situation when Canada puts its banks before its people, especially the most vulnerable, who are “ENTRAPPED” if accepting the US definition of their US citizenship – when they never lived in the US or had any benefit from the US, my son for 40+ years of his life only in Canada.
I reject your Conservative government action as my Canadian-born son cannot renounce a *supposed* US citizenship due to lack of ‘requisite mental capacity’ and the fact that a parent, a guardian or a trustee cannot act on such a person’s behalf, even with a court order. My son and others like him would have no more requisite mental capacity to go to the US to get a US social security number to be able to back-file any US tax and reporting forms and pay for the same, all without influence from anyone (as must be done for a renunciation of US citizenship, now at a cost of $US 2,350, a sum out of reach of most of Canada’s most vulnerable). Note this ‘lack of requisite mental capacity’ would apply not only to Canadians defined by the US as having a US citizenship who also have a developmental disability but to anyone with a brain injury from an accident or a medical event like a stroke or to persons with an age-related dementia.
How will Canada protect such Canadians? And, if you won’t, why will you not? Shall I refer my bank to you when they ask the NATIONAL ORIGIN of my son – or to MP Gerald Keddy and other Conservatives, who throw back – “Just Renounce” as their uninformed answer to my family’s situation?
Regards,
Carol Tapanila
Calgary, AB, Canada
I got the same letter too. I was going to fire back a four-word reply but decided not to waste the energy. It was going to say: “See you in court.”
My husband got this letter yesterday, in response to a letter we had both signed and sent on Jan. 17, 2014. Even though my email was also on the letter, Oliver’s office didn’t send me my own form letter.
I noticed the statement that the IGA is “reciprocal” – that the IRS will send information on “certain” bank accounts of Canadians in U.S. banks to the CRA. Is this accurate? Has the U.S. actually committed to do this, rather than the weaselly statement that they will attempt to move toward steps to reciprocate? When I calm down enough to respond to Oliver, and the NDP and Liberals, I may point out that this would only be a reciprocal agreement if the IRS had agreed to share with the CRA every U.S. bank account of every American citizen and resident with any connection to Canada by birth, residence, family, work, etc. I think they just decided to permanently empty the trash from the past 15 months or so, and just noticed all the letters we’d sent that were thrown away.
@Blaze & heartsick
I’ve inserted the link into the comment; please make sure it is the correct document and if not, let me know.
@ Queenston It is unlikely that the US ever intended to reciprocate. Several of its States are known tax havens and several States have cited privacy laws as a reason not to cooperate. It is a joke for our government to actually state the promise of reciprocacy by the US. The US has refused to sign the international GATCA agreement which is a cousin to FATCA but I think GATCA has a same country resident exclusion.
@ Blaze A family member who sent a letter at the same time as mine received a reply a couple of weeks ago – the same form letter that Carol received. There seems to be no pattern to the “response”, My letter was sent to several members of this government, including my own Conservative “representative”. We put time and effort into our letters only to have them basically disregarded, probably sent straight to the trash bin. The forms letters are rather insulting, we deserve answers to our questions. The letter you and Petros wrote was excellent and served to inform the government of many of the issues we are now faced with due to FATCA.
I sent Oliver an e-mail in March with a dozen questions posed in it. Then we got word that someone had phoned his office and been told all of his correspondence had been lost. So in May I wrote again to Oliver expressing my concern about those lost e-mails and I enclosed a copy of my previous e-mail. And what did I get in return? A late and lousy form letter filled with Con talking-out-of-their-asses points — basically a big fat fart form letter. Disgusting!
EmBee,
Good for you for following up. The process reminds me of “My Mom and Dad went to Vegas and all I got is this lousy T-shirt.”
@EmBee: I know someone else was told they could not locate his communications to Flaherty. Maybe they all were eaten by Lois Lerner’s dog.
Wait! What once was lost but now is found! Inspector General “may” have found up to 30,000 of Lerner’s e-mails.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2014/11/21/irs-inspector-general-finds-up-to-30000-of-lois-lerners-e-mails/
Shortly after, we all get replies to correspondence that was sent over a year ago. This is all just too weird. How do these people keep their jobs?!?
@Queenston
I suspect you think “reciprocal” means equal information flow both directions. It doesn’t mean that. Reciprocal just means something goes both directions. There is no sense of equivalence.
The meaning of reciprocal is detailed in Table 2 (p. 15) in the Allison Christians – Arthur Cockfield submission to Finance in March, 2014 on the draft IGA. They call it “asymmetrical” reciprocity.
Table 2. “Enhanced” Tax Information Exchange Regime
Section A. Government will require resident Financial Institutions to:
-maintain and periodically search electronically searchable database with indicia of accountholder’s “residence” status
Canada-YES USA-NO
-undertake “enhanced review” (additional due diligence) for accounts over $1 million
Canada-YES USA-NO
-treat account holders with specified indicia as resident of the other jurisdiction unless certification requirements are met
Canada-YES USA-NO
-identify and report any payments made to non-participating Financial Institutions
Canada-YES USA-NO
-comply with any registration requirements applicable to other jurisdictions with FATCA agreements
Canada-YES USA-NO
-withhold 30% of certain payments to non-participating Financial Institutions
Canada-YES USA-NO
-provide information to allow withholding and reporting by other payors in certain circumstances
Canada-YES USA-NO
-identify and report information on any branches that are nonparticipating Financial Institutions
Canada-YES USA-NO
Section B. Governments will exchange:
-name and identification numbers of financial institutions collecting and exchanging the above
Canada-YES USA-YES
-Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TINs) of account holders deemed resident of the other country, “where available”
Canada-YES USA-YES
-names, addresses, and TINs of entities that are controlled by persons deemed resident of the other jurisdiction
Canada-YES USA-NO
-with respect to entities controlled by residents of the other jurisdiction, names, addresses, and TINs of such controlling residents
Canada-YES USA-NO
-with respect to corporations and other entities controlled by residents of the other country, account information held by the corporation or other entity
Canada-YES USA-NO
-periodic account balances of accounts held by residents of the other country
Canada-YES USA-NO
-gross amount of other payments made/credited to accounts held by residents of the other country, including dividends and gross sales proceeds,32 regardless of source and regardless of domestic reporting requirements
Canada-YES USA-NO
-amounts described above paid/credited to a (custodial) account that has a resident of the other country as a beneficiary
Canada-YES USA-NO
-amounts described above paid/credited to an account that involves
the Financial Institution as obligor or debtor
Canada-YES USA-NO
@Queenston
The above shows the list of new, additional reporting requirements. I created inequality.
Here is the equal information exchange that existed before the IGA. It is still exchanged as part of the whole package.
Table One: Existing [pre-IGA] Tax Information Exchange Regime
Government collects from Financial Institutions & can exchange:
-names and addresses of account holders resident in the other country
Canada-YES USA-YES
-gross amount of deposit interest paid/credited to residents of the other country
Canada-YES USA-YES
-gross amount of dividends and other passive income items paid/credited to residents of the other country
Canada-YES USA-YES
Put these two lists together, and you have what Joe Oliver calls (with a straight face) a “reciprocal ” agreement. The U.S. is not obliged to do anything more.
Thanks very much, Shovel, for what you’ve just pointed out:
The government’s position seems so weak and yellow-bellied. Makes me think they MUST have something up their sleeves.
“When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
Joe Oliver: the Humpty Dumpty of the federal government.
@Bubblebustin
…or Harper’s position is weak and yellow-bellied with nothing up his sleeve.
I think this type of response is something that should be shown to every media outlet we can find. This fake and phony response needs to be shown as the official notification of “second class status” that many Canadians have now become. This is the way any minority group will be dealt with when threatened. This is how the Canadian government will respond when Canadians need them the most. Christmas is ruined for the OMG moments that are just now happening. Just think of how the newly created “second class Canadians” will feel seeing how phony the response from the elected fakes that they pay for. Harper and his paid actors/actresses have now completely shown their true colours. The only good thing about this is that we have it in writing and can share it with the rest of Canada. I have just put 100.00 more into the pot for my Christmas donation to the lawsuit. I will actively share this letter with other Native people, however, most Native people already know how dishonest and deceptive the government is.
@NativeCanadian, you said: “most Native people already know how dishonest and deceptive the government is.”
One good thing about FATCA, if there are any good things, is that some Canadians who never really ‘got it’ before, hear what you are saying now.