#FATCA in 9 minutes http://t.co/GcdyLi16Va
— Patricia Moon (@nobledreamer16) November 5, 2014
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#FATCA in 9 minutes http://t.co/GcdyLi16Va
— Patricia Moon (@nobledreamer16) November 5, 2014
Please notice there is a donate button on the top right hand side once the pointer contacts the “play” button.
Please share and Tweet widely!
Nice work John. I bet you’re a good dancer too.
I just tweeted :
MAKE #FATCA FAIR : #US #citizens living in #america should pay #taxes back to the country that their familyies are originated from.
Spread the word : Americans should pay tax back to the countries that they and their families come from in the first place.
MAKE FATCA FAIR. Have them ALL fill out forms so we know their origin and wich countries they should be filling out tax forms for. GET THEM ALL CONCERNED AND FEEL BAD ABOUT IT.
That’ll get things going inside USA.
Good – this video goes a good way to simplify FATCA into understandable parts that people in FATCA 101 can instantly grasp hold.
Another statement I like to say is “On 1 July 2014 Americans lost the right to cash out of the US, move abroad and not be tracked by the US Government.”
Hoping an article about IBS will be in the British press soon.
An article about Irritable Bowel Syndrome?
Nobody has spoken to me. If someone wants to do an article on the Isaac Brock Society they should at very least speak to me–and potentially other members of our committee.
I though the video was over the top. The suggestion that America will make everyone in the world a US person is crazy. I think you could make your point better by showing how the green card or US residency for snowbirds can essential make you into something like a US citizen (obligations but no rights).
Moderator: if you can fix it, this should be its own thread! I don’t have authority to do it on my own nor do I know how to request it otherwise.
Practical Solutions Needed
In my view, the election has created a small opening NOW to pursue a pragmatic solution that will resolve MOST but not all of the injustice that FATCA and CBT generally have wreaked upon US Persons outside the United States and their families. What is needed is (i) a VERY SIMPLE and SUCCINCT summary of why this is an injustice that can be grasped by any voter in a coffee shop with the attention span of a four year old; (ii) a SIMPLE and CLEAN proposal to make the problem go away; and (iii) a Congressman or woman with the courage to take it on.
There is an opening in my view because a) the Republicans control both houses; b) the Republicans have apparently embraced repeal of FATCA and CBT as bad policies; c) Democrats Abroad at least have recognized most of the injustices US law perpetrates upon its diaspora and can be expected to endorse at least limited action to address the worst of it if not outright repeal of FATCA; and d) a Congress which has a double majority has some hope of getting a bill passed which – if consistent with principles the Democrats have at least paid lip service to – the President might not veto. FATCA may be bad law, but it sells politically because it targets “FATCAT” tax evaders. We need to let them solve that problem in their own time and in their own way providing they stop with the collateral damage! We all know Congress will have only a short honeymoon period where it has any hope of getting things done, so the best hope of getting something passed is early and not late in the lifetime of the new Congress. The pending Canadian litigation will serve to keep some level of political attention and heat on the issue (I don’t overestimate that factor in the US of course!).
I think our group can collaborate on the simple summary idea. The Democrats Abroad brief is not a bad one and could likely be an appendix to a short summary that highlights a) double taxation that persists despite tax credits and exemptions; and especially b) the ways in which the fines and penalties associated with “death by a thousand forms” subjects US Persons outside the US to discrimination and threats not faced by Homelanders. Real stories of real people will carry 100 times the weight of an academic brief.
What is the simple solution? Well, I tried to put together something as simple as what we put before Parliament when C-31 was being debated. Here is what I came up with (drafted as an amendment to the US Tax Code):
“General (1) For all purposes of this Title 26 and any other statute referring thereto other than Title 8, a person shall neither be considered to be a citizen of the United States nor a U.S. Person if the person would not be considered a resident of the United States (absent the existence of United States citizenship) under the substantial connection test in 26 U.S.C. para. 7701(b)(3) for the particular year nor any of the ten preceding years. This statute shall apply with retroactive effect.
Repeal (2) Title 26, U.S. C. para. 7701(a)(50) is hereby repealed.
Transitional (3) Any person who has filed any return or paid any tax or penalty prior to the coming into force of this statute shall have no claim against the United States government arising from the application of the law prior to the coming into force of this statute. ”
In simple terms, what the amendment to the US Tax Code drafted above seeks to accomplish is to cut the head off the snake. If CBT is the root of all evil, kill as much of it as we can as simply as we can. What I did was go to the source of CBT in the United States Tax Code which is Title 26 in the definitions section (para. 7701). This is where “US Person” is defined to include a citizen or resident. What my amendment would do is simply provide that for purposes of the Tax Code and any other statute that references it (but not the Immigration and Nationality Act which is Title 8), a US citizen is NOT considered a “tax” citizen if you will if they haven’t met the “substantial presence” test for the year in question nor any of the ten preceding years. For someone who left as a child or was born outside the US to US parents, this is a complete waiver. For someone who left as an adult, this limits their “problem years” to the ten years after they left.
The virtue of this is that it does not require the creation of any new tests, definitions or concepts which often involves the law of unintended consequences (and stalls things for a long time while such consequences are studied and debated). Substantial presence has been in the Tax Code for years – it may be a mess, but it’s their mess! Snowbirds need to be wary of it, but occasional visitors do not.
This is not perfect. People who have been out of the country for ten years or more have connections sufficiently tenuous to the US that it will not be hard to explain to Congress and Homeland voters that it is unjust to persecute them. Yes, it does mean that Eduardo Savarin’s of this world will eventually be able to get out of the tax net, but the IRS will still get to torture them for a decade before they get away. They can create new exit taxes for such people if they like. It won’t be hard to do. It does mean that the vast majority of Accidental Americans would simply be out of their net for all purposes and for all time unless they decide to establish themselves in the US.
The law would have retroactive effect (just as the amendments to the citizenship rules did back when they were changed in the 80’s). This would simply make the problem go away for almost everyone. The provision of para. 7701(5) being deleted is the root of “covered expatriate” in the existing statute (citizen for tax purposes until all obligations discharged under s. 877). They are free to come up with a new exit tax for the fat cats who may leave tomorrow if they like,
What I have NOT tried to resolve here is (i) giving citizenship back to those who were effectively forced to renounce; and (ii) refunding money extorted in the past. In a perfect world, a just government would address both of these issues fairly. I strongly suspect that if we try to bite off too much, we may instead get nothing. The perfect can be the enemy of the practical. On balance, I think this remedy is simple enough to explain that it has SOME hope of getting traction if the story behind it is compelling.
That leaves the problem of finding a sponsor. Maybe Rand Paul? Maybe even Ted Cruz? I leave that to others. I confess to having little insight into how this might be done.
My suggestion is that we try to refine these ideas and develop a near perfect “pitch” collaboratively that can be sold to one or more Congress people and let’s see if we can’t actually solve this problem at the source. FATCA will still be bad law imposing lots of expense, but it will effectively only hunt for or disclose US residents with the proverbial Swiss accounts.
Duplicate comment I made to another thread:
Yes, Steven, the same kind of “fairness” of the IGA that implements FATCA in countries outside the USA. For example, in Canada, to not be discriminatory, ALL PERSONS IN CANADA, citizens and permanent residents alike no matter where their origin or the origin of their parents MUST have their banking information turned over to the Canada Revenue Agency for the CRA to determine what will be further passed on to the US IRS. Let all Canadians think about such an action.
Pingback: The Isaac Brock Society | Opportunity for #FATCA and#CBT Relief with the Senate and House in Control of the Republicans
Are Neill and I the only ones who think John’s hyperbole and delivery are counter productive? Not as bad as the defrocked Elvis impersonator . We’ve actually come a long way since then.
@Duke
As far as I’m aware, you are. You have no idea of how many people he has helped and how much of that help is given freely. That includes flying all over the place on his own dime and spending countless hours on the phone where people think it’s Brock and should be free.
I know we disagree about things and clearly don’t understand each other too well. But as members of the same community with the same goals in mind, these kinds of comments are not helpful and show no appreciation for the efforts of one of us who is actually doing a great deal to change this mess we’re into.That matters.
@Duke of Devon
I understand that John has done helped many people, for which he is to be much commended. I have watched some other interview with him that I liked very much. So this video surprised me. It seemed out of character and I could not comfortably watch it to the end.
@Tricia Moon,
In past videos I have liked what John did. His style was to be a little dramatic but it was OK. I just feel in this video he crossed a line I wouldn’t. In my talks I want to get people to understand the issues but I don’t want to make claims that don’t fit the facts.
Sure the Americans can redefine who a US person is. That’s bad no question.
US persons is a broad surprising set. He didn’t cover as much as he could in fact.
Claiming that the US has a plan to claim everyone on the planet as an American and then grant exceptions only to Americans resident in the US is crazy.
I like the video, two thumbs up.
Clear speaking in easy terms.
It fired me up. 🙂
Neill, I don’t see it that way. An aggressor has no limit to their aggression except what external power forces upon them. The Romans declared the whole world taxpayers and Roman citizens the beneficiaries. That is what empire building is all about. John went over no line, but was using a reductio ad absurdum argument–if we are going let the US get away with FATCA, who is going to stop them from declaring everyone a US citizen and therefore taxpayer? So it is imperative that we stand up to the US aggression now, while we still can.
Besides, we in Canada have the most to lose. We are the US’s Austria: the first to be annexed in a crisis: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/04/17/blame-canada-who-is-next-in-the-united-states-grab-for-power/
Give them an inch, they’ll take a mile.
If it is true that 47% percent of the homelanders are not paying income taxes then John’s half-joking prognosis is already half-way true.
@FromTheWilderness,
The 47% figure is correct. It’s also old and it’s expected it’s risen. It’s actually worse than it looks because a significant fraction of that 47% have the IRS as a revenue stream. The earned income tax credit is refundable. It gives money back that you never paid in taxes. Large numbers of people file their taxes purely to get that money. There is massive fraud of course for those able to understate their income.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/hitler-announces-an-anschluss-with-austria
Canada and Mexico next?
http://www.cfr.org/canada/building-north-american-community/p8102
Correct, very correct, FromTheWilderness.
We here are now DEFINED by the USA, not the countries in which we live. Right now our government has changed the definition of who we are to “US citizens who happen to reside in Canada”. It certainly didn’t appear “our” definition when Finance Minister Flaherty stated in Finance Minister Flahery’s 2011 Letter, meant to be posted in U.S. Media”
Mr. Flaherty’s view changed just before he died when he stated that we would have to take up our issues with the US government — and we were from about that time thus defined “US citizens who happen to reside in Canada”.
That definition of the U.S. citizen comes from the USA. USA definition of who is and is not a US citizen, who gave up that “rights” by becoming Canadian citizen has changed from, decades ago, one of punishment of losing one’s US citizenship upon becoming a citizen of another country to the present punishment of being defined ‘a US citizen FOR TAX PURPOSES’. The U.S. gets to make the rules, change the definitions. We are its chattel as we realize that it is a myth that slavery in the U.S. has been abolished.
It is definitely within my thinking that the U.S., unless stopped by litigation, will retain the ability to further broaden its definition in the question “Are you, have you ever been a U.S. citizen (FOR TAX PURPOSES)?” And, the countries who fall in line with the “Congress has spoken” mentality, those afraid of threats to their economies, will be able to turn their own citizens and their own country’s sovereignty over to the U.S. FOR U.S. TAX PURPOSES.”
I, too, like the video. It is the reality of what can happen. How did we get to where we are today from the time I became a Canadian citizen and “lost” my U.S. citizenship by doing so.
I have to say John keeps hitting the nail when he restates the US defines who is a US Citizen (in Canada).
That is one of the core problems.
Canada and other countries needed to reserve the right to define who were its citizens within its sovereign borders. As I have said like a broken record player, a Canadian Citizen with twelve other possible nationalties can solely and only be Canadian within the borders of Canada.
That’s right, George. The US just expanded its definition of US citizen by including non-genetic children of US citizens.
I like this video and to me it’s clear when the speaker is being a little tongue in cheek. Well done!
To make it perfect he could have explained what PFIC means and, more importantly, mentioned people who have green cards – or who had green cards at any time in the past – and their families.
@ Anne Frank: Thank you for this incredibly insightful proposal. I believe it could really work …. It approaches the realities of the legal and political landscape with awesome clarity and tact.
The urgency due to the narrow window of opportunity makes sense, too…
@Moderators: Please consider this – it could be our ticket to freedom!
I liked the ENTIRE video. I see no harm in obvious hyperbole. Sometimes it takes a big heart kathump to bring a message home. That’s what the hypothetical RBT twist did for me.
@ WhiteKat
I think they’ve already taken one mile and they will go for more.
@ star
I have to admit I didn’t catch on to “Ms. PFIC” until the second time through.
@ Bubblebustin
John is so high energy he could have danced all night. 😉 We’re all so lucky to have him as a partner in the anti-FATCA boogie.
The US defining ‘US Person’ is only half the trouble. The US also controls the process. What’s going to happen when they start requesting information the other way around? Require online real time updates rather than annual?
FATCA is a moving feast.