I received a phone call this afternoon from a concerned Brocker asking if I’d seen the discussion at Isaac Brock about whether it was ok to lie to the bank on the various self-certification forms. Specifically he asked my opinion about the ethics of lying. He said of course that the nuns at his parochial school said one should never lie, not even to save the world! But of course, as a theologian, the story of Rahab the Harlot came to my mind. She lied, and for that both Jews and Christians consider her a great heroine. Here is the main story of her boldfaced lie (Joshua 2.1-6; RSV):
1 And Joshua the son of Nun sent two men secretly from Shittim as spies, saying, “Go, view the land, especially Jericho.” And they went, and came into the house of a harlot whose name was Rahab, and lodged there. 2 And it was told the king of Jericho, “Behold, certain men of Israel have come here tonight to search out the land.” 3 Then the king of Jericho sent to Rahab, saying, “Bring forth the men that have come to you, who entered your house; for they have come to search out all the land.” 4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them; and she said, “True, men came to me, but I did not know where they came from; 5 and when the gate was to be closed, at dark, the men went out; where the men went I do not know; pursue them quickly, for you will overtake them.” 6 But she had brought them up to the roof, and hid them with the stalks of flax which she had laid in order on the roof.
Now the New Testament remembers Rahab in Matt 1.5, as a great-great-great-great etc. granny of King David and Jesus; and as a woman of faith in Hebrews 11:31: “By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given friendly welcome to the spies.” James 2.25 also says, “And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?”
So it would seem that the Bible, as one the great foundational texts of both law and ethics in the Western world, has no problem with lying under certain circumstances. She lied to save the lives of two men who would soon become her new compatriots. Moreover, she’d seen that God was with the Israelites and Joshua, and she thus knew her city, Jericho, was doomed. So to protect herself and her family she decided to relinquish her Jericho citizenship under INS 349 (a) (7)–and become a daughter of Israel. She exercised her universal human right to change nationalities.
Yes, the King of Jericho would have severely punished her if he had found out her lie. And the homelanders of Jericho would have considered her a liar, traitor and tax cheat. But they didn’t write the history of the battle. Rahab had to do what was best for her family, and for that both Old and New Testaments praise her.
Hard times create unconventional heros.
I think the bible presents an offshore account of the situation.
Petros,
So it would seem then that, at least as reported in the Bible, a boldfaced lie in some situations can be a reasonable course of action — and can even turn one into a hero/heroine.
Brava to Rahab!
Yes, yes.
And I would add that you don’t always have to be on the winning side to be remembered in a good light. The Nazis arrested Dietrich Bonhoeffer for his involvement in the failed assassination attempt of Hitler. He was executed just before the Allies gained control. Sad, but Christians consider him a great hero because he tried to assassinate such a great villain.
It is just so incredibly sad that someone would have to lie to get the justice they deserve and thought they had. The Canadian government outright failed these Canadians. This is not the country we all thought we had. When their protections were tested, look how these scoundrels protected them. They left them for stupid and at the hands of a foreign government. Failure is not an option. The lawsuit is an option…..
Yes, I have lied to the King of Jericho. Would he be angry with me if he knew that I’d lied. I think so.
Moral of the story:
Never trust a harlot.
I don’t think having your banking information turned over to the IRS parallels death, any more than Gwen and Ginny might one day be burned at the stake.
Considering the offshore jihad of the last five years or so, it’s obvious the King, err Obama, is already angry at us (for leaving the plantation). A couple of lies tossed in along the way won’t even move the needle. Really, what’s the difference between being portrayed as a tax evading criminal or a lying tax evading criminal? The default assumption is that we are all liars.
To lie or not to lie is a discussion better saved for one’s relationship with oneself. We’re all doing the time whether we committed the crime or not.
The spies trusted the harlot. It worked out for them. Gwen and Ginny are taking certain risks–maybe not to burned at the stake, but perhaps to have some of their hard earned savings stripped of them.
Some people are talking about FATCA ruining their lives. I have been spared because I was able to get out in 2011, mostly before the storm. Nevertheless, whether I am stripped of my property or killed, I take these threats very seriously. Perhaps some have lost the fire of liberty that proclaims that if you take away my property, you have taken away my life. That’s the essence of the cry, Give me liberty or give me death.
Yes, Rahab lied but she never broke the commandment: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. That kind of lie causes the most harm and the most pain. She didn’t lie AGAINST the men, she lied to protect them and her loved ones, too, because she promised that she would protect the spies if they promised to spare her loved ones when the city would be attacked. And they all kept their promises. Everyone she crammed into her house was saved (Joshua 6). BTW: in the version I read of Hebrews 11:31, Rahab is commended for peace: “By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in PEACE.”
I never thought about her changing her “citizenship” from Jericho to Israel, but that’s essentially what she did. The city of Jericho followed a course of action that sealed their fate, but she didn’t have to let them ruin her loved ones. She chose peace. She protected the spies and saved her loved ones. Through this lawsuit, we are trying to protect our spouses and kids and fellow Canadians from injustice and grant them peace.
We may have Herrod as ourleader——-
The biggest liar of all is Stephen Harper!
@bubblebustin … “Never Trust a Harlot” you say ….. well that may depend on what the Harlot intends for those listening …. the King Of Jericho was not on side with the Harlot …. the Israelite spies were ….
LOL I had not been familiar with that account from the Bible …. thank you Petros.
Reposting a portion of my comment from another thread:
“I was recently in Amsterdam and had occasion to visit the Anne Frank House. It was a very moving experience, to say the least, to walk through the front part of the building that housed the family business and then to go through the door, hidden by a bookcase, into the tiny, blacked-out rooms at the back of the house that hid two families for so long. While the Franks were in hiding, their friends and business associates supplied them with food and other necessities by buying extras here and there and smuggling it into their hiding place, careful to let no one catch on.
“Can anyone tell me if not one of these people ever told a lie in order to preserve this family? One thing I do know. Someone who knew the family was hiding there eventually told the truth and one day the family was removed and sent to their deaths. Only the father survived. Which of these actions took the moral high ground, the truth or the lie?”
Bubblebustin: You are right. None of us is going to be burned at the stake, sent before a firing squad or strapped into an electric chair over this situation. But … in the 21st century, without a financial life one may as well be dead. I have to agree with Petros about the “fires of liberty”. I will defend my property … and my husband’s property! … even if it means I have to lie.
@Petros.
I savor the irony that the true spirit of America resides more in those she has forced to give up their citizenship than those who remain on the plantation. That spirit will never die, but the US government certainly will. The great empires of history are gone and we are witnessing the the latest one in it’s death throes.
Lying to liars and thieves – how is that a bad thing?
The US should heed Shelly’s Ozymandias
@bubblebustin re: “never trust a harlot”. That is a rather discriminatory statement, no? Or have I misunderstood your point?
Ok, to be clear, I was being facetious with my harlot comment. I don’t believe that harlots are any less trustworthy than anyone else.
I still don’t know why anyone would lie to keep their savings in a bank that would do what that banks have conspired with the Canadian government to do against them. Are Gwen and Ginny lying? No they are standing their ground and saying “NO”, and are waiting for the bank to play their hand – to commit their crime. We can all be Gwen’s and Ginny’s, or we can criminalize ourselves to protect the banks from being held accountable for the crimes against us.
Wouldn’t the Rahab story compare more with a bank manager lying to protect their US person customers from being identified to the CRA?
Our plaintiffs are not lying in their role as plaintiffs, but I bet they would be lying to their banks to protect their savings if push came to shove. Ask Gwen, if she has a problem with lying to her bank. 🙂
We cannot all be plaintiffs, for many reasons. A small number of plaintiffs (two) was carefully SELECTED from several who volunteered.
However, we can all stand up for our rights in other ways, for example lying to a financial institution that holds OUR money. There is nothing wrong with lying to protect yourself from criminals. In fact, I would argue that it is unethical to tell the truth in that situation.
@Bubblebustin.
Ah, now I get it. Actually, I expect your average harlot is considerably MORE trustworthy than the IRS/US government.
And that’s the best argument against lying I’ve heard aside from one’s personal moral compass. I.e., don’t punish yourself, punish the bank that is forcing this upon their customers.
How is lying “standing up for our rights”?
@ MuzzledNoMore
You’re right that the moral ground is not always the truth. To protect Jews from the Nazis, a lot of lies were told and documents falsified. One of the greatest heroes among these brave people was Raoul Wallenberg, a Swedish diplomat in Budapest who issued realistic Swedish passports and documents to save Hungarian Jews. He also created “Swedish homes” where the Swedish flag flew, where Jews could be protected. He is credited with saving 100,000 of the 120,000 Hungarian Jews that survived. (When the Russians liberated the city, Wallenberg was given a Russian escort to visit another city and was never seen again, resulting in various stories about what happened to him.)
A quiet hero, who saved his two daughters and nephew, is the father in “The Yellow Star” by Jennifer Roy. It is the true story of the author’s Aunt Syvia’s childhood survival of the Lodz ghetto, Poland. The children in the ghetto were frequently deported, but Syvia’s determined father kept the kids with him safely hidden, smuggling them from cellar to cellar. In 1945 the Lodz ghetto in Poland was liberated from the Germans. Syvia said, “Out of more than a quarter of a million people, only about 800 walked out of the ghetto. Of those who survived, only twelve were children. I was one of the twelve.”
You are correct that the Frank family was betrayed by an informant. According to this website, in a police record, the person who tipped the family off received 7½ guilders per Jew, a total of 60 guilders. Some people offered ideas about who betrayed the Franks, but the truth was never determined. http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/annefran.htm
At least we know our informants. We are fully aware that the U.S. is betraying all of “its” people abroad to glean financial data and to extort money through outlandish penalties. Many of our banks, the CRA, and our gov’t leaders are aiding and abetting them. Still, it is heartening to hear some stories on Brock posts that some bank people are protecting clients and deciding not to flag their accounts as American.
How’s this for a hypothetical.
Gwen and Ginny suffer egregious harm through FATCA and are dragged through the courts for years (not unimaginable). Eventually they receive justice, as we expect they will and awarded damages and maybe even get an apology from the Canadian government at the time. Would those who lied to their banks be able to in good conscience stand up and take any credit whatsoever for their part in righting this injustice and make any claim to an apology or damages?
Jan: Thank you for the further examples of the moral ground not always being the truth. I’ll try to find the book you mention. I’d like to read it.
***
I’ve spent much of the day thinking about truth and lies. It has occurred to me that the act of hiding (something all of us here are well acquainted with) is, itself, a form of lying. We are all engaged in it by the fact that we are using aliases for fear of our real selves being recognized. We are not doing this because we know we have committed some heinous crime that we have to cover up. Quite the opposite. Although our physical lives are not in danger as the Swedish, Polish and German Jews’ were, we are, nonetheless, innocent people hiding from powerful forces that would do us serious harm just because of who we are. Just as the Jews caught up in the horrors of WWII were facing an extraordinary situation so are we today caught up in our own extraordinary situation. And extraordinary situations always require extraordinary responses.
None of us want to be hiding behind our “noms-de-plume”. None of us want to lie to anyone, much less our banks! What I am hoping with every breath I take is that the success of Ginny and Gwen’s lawsuit … *our* lawsuit … will make it possible for none of us ever to feel that we have to do so.