If clicking on a link brings you to the wrong page of the comment thread, CLICK HERE to get to its current page.
UPDATE December 23, 2017: Please see the following post for the latest information: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/12/15/un-human-rights-complaint-quadruples-its-signatures/
UPDATE November 28, 2017:
Also, see MuzzledNoMore’s updated post, United Nations Human Rights Complaint: Seeking Advice and Additional Signatures
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UPDATE November 23, 2017:
UN Complaint Final July 29 2014 – updated links November 23 2017
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UPDATE JANUARY 10, 2017:
From MuzzledNoMore:
Just letting everybody know that we’re still waiting to hear from the UN about the status of our Complaint. With any luck we’ll have the matter taken care of within the next few months by the new Republican administration in Washington. Who knows? Maybe the UN is watching and waiting to see what happens as well. In any regard, the UN has informed us that it can take up to three years for a Complaint to reach the stage at which it will be considered or rejected.
If a “domestic” solution is possible, there will be no need for the UN to address the issue. When we filed the Complaint nearly two and a half years ago we could never have believed that repealing FATCA and switching to residence-based taxation would have made it to the 2016 Republican Party Platform. Now it remains to be seen if the party will follow through with its promises.
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UPDATE MAY 21, 2015:
Today we received official confirmation from the United Nations Human Rights Council that our Complaint has been received and is in the queue pending approval (or not) for admittance into one of the Working Groups. The next session of the Working Group on Communications is scheduled from 17 to 21 August 2015. Further information will be shared with us after that date.
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UPDATE NOVEMBER 6, 2014:
From MuzzledNoMore:
We have finally received confirmation that our Human Rights Complaint against the United States has been received by the United Nations. This is great news! But let’s not pop champagne corks just yet. There is no indication that the Complaint has been read or considered for acceptance into the complaints process in any way. That is all yet to come. But we have made a huge step forward! That deserves a few cheers all round … even without the bubbly!
UPDATE OCTOBER 27, 2014:
Permission has been given a university researcher to access to our UN Human Rights Complaint to analyze ethical assumptions on FATCA. That access will be used for academic purposes, content not to be released (as the UN has not yet acknowledged receipt of this UN Human Rights Complaint).
We view as a significant step that this document will be studied for moral dimensions and ethics. We continue to anticipate the time we will be able to publicly release contents of the Complaint, likely AFTER the next scheduled meeting to review such complaints, sometime in April 2015.
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UPDATE SEPTEMBER 10, 2014:
“JC” commented, and he’s right:
Whenever that text for the human rights complaint comes out that, I believe, will be a big help at raising awareness.
The text of the Human Rights Complaint will be published when we know the UN has received and considered it. There has been no confirmation that our submission was considered for the meeting in August (…our submission was sent just before the August meeting so, just by number of other submissions received before ours, our Human Rights Complaint may not have been considered in the time allotted). It looks like the next UN meeting to consider Human Rights Complaints is scheduled for April of 2015 — that Committee meets twice a year.
In the meantime, our fundraising must be pinned to its stand-alone legal claim and importance which absolutely addresses our human rights issues.
Donate Now: http://adcs-adsc.ca/
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August 7, 2014 UPDATE:
The Human Rights Complaint has been submitted. Thank you to those who worked on the document and made this happen. A very special thank you to all who came forward to put your names on this important document. We had a total of 41 signers, representing the countries of Canada, Germany, Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Estonia, Switzerland and Belgium.
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August 5, 2014 UPDATE:
Note: there is a confidentiality clause in the document that your name / nationality / country be kept confidential. My name and address will be the only one that might not be confidential. I wanted to share with you two notes waiting for me this morning:
Hi Carol,
I am very disappointed that more people did not come forward and sign this document, I do not understand why people are afraid to speak up for what they believe. People are so afraid of the bully acts of the USA, We must stand together, I am asking all people that the US government deem US citizens to step forward and stand up against the US and the Harper government for allowing FATCA into the Canadian banking system.
I am not on facebook or twitter. I give you permission to post this.
Disappointed
XXX
Hi Carol,
I am surprised that so few people have signed. This makes me uneasy. People must be frightened. Do you expect repercussions against the signers? At the moment I don’t have the strength to deal with any more troubles. Would you please put a hold on my name until I can evaluate your assessment of possible repercussions.
Thank you,
YYYY
I answered YYYY:
Absolutely. I can take your name off the list of signers if you are not comfortable with that — you must be OK with your decision. We will probably be sending the Complaint on Thursday, August 7th .
No, we don’t expect any repercussions against any of the signers. We will ask for confidentiality in one of the clauses.
As with everything else of this with this (persons on blogs, getting together for protest, etc.), people are afraid to step forward. The US weapon toward its people always is FEAR. That is what we see here. That is our biggest obstacle and what may defeat us in the end.
Dr. Stephen Kish, Chair of the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty signs his name on behalf of the millions of *US Persons* Abroad who are afraid to sign.
Thanks, YYYY.
FEAR: the most effective tool the USA has at its disposal is at work in all we see regarding US Persons Abroad coming forward in unison to fight the good fight. If anything defeats us, it will be our FEAR.
As you all know, I fear too for my son’s name to be out there as it is my duty as a parent to protect his best interests. Because of my own fear, I went through all the complex back US tax filings through use of professionals in the US compliance industry. That was my choice as I could absolutely not do it myself and I so wanted this behind me, to stop the leak of my hard-earned retirement funds to be passed to the US IRS. I’m still in this game. I replied to a commenter at Isaac Brock yesterday and Stephen Kish picked part of what I said to update the ADCS-ADSC Charter Challenge post yesterday:
UPDATE August 5, 2014 (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/)
Carol, an ADCS-ADSC Board Director, explains why she donated to this lawsuit:
The purpose of the lawsuit, to me, is to stop the obscene injustice of all of this, regain rights waived by the Canadian government’s implementation of the US FATCA IGA, thereby putting the financial institutions before individuals and families who are being criminalized!
I’m in for that just as I’m on this blog, hoping people learn from all of the stupid mistakes I made along the way — I don’t want others to make those same mistakes.
It’s about people getting their lives back, along with their dignity and their mental and physical health and to stop the the handing over to the US a good portion of what they’ve saved for their retirements.
It is about wanting Canada to remain a sovereign country, not taken over by the USA. It’s about what I think is right and not wanting to silently stand by and let this happen. It’s because I believe in free speech and don’t want to be shamed into not speaking out, at this point especially for other families who have a family member with some developmental disability or some other ‘mental incapacity’.
My update for now and my regards to all,
August 2, 2014 UPDATE:
Thank you very much for everyone who has corresponded to me at calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com to request the password and give permission for your signatures to be added. Your supportive emails are wonderful.
He is what we have for signers to the Human Rights Document:
18 – Canada
2 – UK
1 – Australia
1 – Belgium (US/Dutch Citizen)
1 – Denmark
1 – Germany
1 – Japan
1 – Switzerland
Note that one of the Canadian signers is Dr. Stephen Kish (Canadian, US)–signing personally, and on behalf of the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty” Board of Directors, and the millions of U.S. persons living abroad who are too frightened to sign this document.
Also waiting to hear back from 4 in Canada (one from Quebec) and one from New Zealand.
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July 30, 2014 UPDATE:
Here is the FINAL Human Rights Complaint, available to those that are considering signing. To access the password for this document, contact and request from calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
Each person sending a request will receive a copy from calgary411 “in Confidence” with the CLEAR understanding that it is NOT to be published. For anyone who wants to have another person read/sign the document, that other person also needs to obtain it through the Isaac Brock Society or Maple Sandbox channels. Signatures will only be accepted from those who have gotten the document through calgary411. This stipulation is necessary to keep some lid on the proliferation of this information.
We will announce when we know the timing for the agency committee looking at this document for review. We will update on this post any feedback from the agency as it is received.
This document is the collaboration of contributors to both blogs and took over a month to write, discuss and edit in consensus with a group of 15 who have vetted and approved it in its entirety. It stands as presented to them. Bloggers can have their say but there will be no further changes to the document. It is what the agency says that matters.
Sign if you are in agreement and can do so by providing to calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com your name and your nationality and/or country of residence. The Human Rights Complaint will be submitted electronically. Submitters’ names and nationalities will be typed onto the lines provided on page 1. No physical signature is required.
If you are not comfortable with the document, you do not have to sign.
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.
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Two dedicated individuals who participate at both the Isaac Brock Society and the Maple Sandbox blogs have prepared a comprehensive Human Rights Complaint that will be submitted on behalf of all *US Persons Abroad* the world over. Others offered suggestions on how that information should best be presented in the constraint of number of pages allowed for the Complaint. We appreciate the legal eye and suggestions for going forward with this Complaint from Professor Allison Christians.
The document now complete, I have been asked to post an announcement on their behalf. Unfortunately, because of their personal situations, they cannot lend their names to the document and this will be the end of Phase I, produced for all of us, with their great care.
I so appreciate the incredible work that has gone into this on behalf of all of us. Here is what they say:
A group of writers from the Isaac Brock Society and Maple Sandbox blogs has prepared a document that challenges citizenship-based taxation (CBT) as a violation of internationally recognized human rights. This document will be submitted as a formal complaint to a major international human rights organization within the next ten days.
Any readers who would like to support this effort by “co-signing” (having their names added to the list of those filing the complaint) should so indicate by sending an email to: calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
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The Canadian writers of the complaint hope to make this a truly international effort. Bloggers from all over the world are welcome to lend their names to this historic document. Signers do not have to be US Persons.****************
Signers should feel comfortable with using their own names (pseudonyms are unacceptable in this instance) and should provide their nationality and/or country of residence as well.
@Osgood I sent them an e-mail questioning if their policy was in violation of Australian discrimination laws, even by barring USP from investing. They must have some high powered consultant advising them who may be advising others. I had thought that certain IGA had anti-discrimination as part of them.
@JC
I think the general prohibition on US persons relates to some US SEC regulations first published in 1933 or something like that. It was never an issue before FATCA but it certainly is now.
@Osgood & JC: the tax and securities law definitions of “US Person” are different. Regulation S doesn’t include U.S. citizens abroad.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/17/230.902#k
The issue with FATCA is mainly that banks now have two different definitions of “US Person” to deal with, and in almost all cases they will just fudge the difference and adopt the more restrictive one. But this isn’t the first time I’ve run into this problem; as early as the mid-200s I dealt with firms (who were aware of CBT) which insisted that my birthplace made me a Regulation S “U.S. Person”.
@Eric Then we are not correct in saying US Person as according to US law that would be an individual resident in the U.S. So then what do we say?
The U.S. has had long standing tax laws. They say Americans abroad should file tax and not being knowledgeable of obligations is no excuse so they say. Yet it is the U.S. who obfuscate and mislead on the wording in their tax treaties. They even have confused the Australian ATO (CRA or IRS equivalent):
“Australia has tax treaties with more than 40 countries…They prevent double taxation and fiscal evasion.” https://www.ato.gov.au/General/International-tax-agreements/In-detail/Tax-treaties/What-are-tax-treaties-/ No ATO they don’t prevent double taxation, in the case of the Australia-U.S. tax treaty.
Perhaps this should be part of the Human Rights Complaint of how the U.S. has confused U.S. citizens abroad and politicians of other countries, with their language about how the treaties prevent double taxation. Plus their very narrow definition of prevention of double taxation is in contradiction of common perception of what “prevention of double taxation” means – that the definition should be a very broad definition, as in you live in a “high tax” country then the excess of your tax on earnings compared to the U.S. tax should be a credit to be used against other US taxes or carried forward to be used in future years.
Another related area that needs to be addressed is that compliance time and expense for U.S. tax should be considered part of tax as these are considerable. So the definition of preventing double taxation should be broadened. That even if you owe no tax, that the considerable time required for compliance and tax advice should tip the definition of preventing double taxation, so that even the ATO should acknowledge that perhaps most US persons living in Australia face substantial double taxation.
Then this may indicate to governments that perhaps there is something wrong with these treaties that needs fixing.
@Eric
Thanks for that clarification.
So, let me see. We have US Citizens who are not US Persons under Regulation S (those living outside the US), yet under FATCA we also have US Persons who are not US Citizens (permanent residents wherever they live).
Then there are US Nationals (e.g. American Samoans), who are neither US Persons nor US Citizens.
No wonder people get confused.
“With FATCA, the US is using its sheer economic clout to get the whole world involved in chasing what it deems to be “US persons” for their tax tribute, without any discussion about whether the state’s unilateral conferring of citizenship constitutes consent to (permanent and worldwide) taxation. Indeed, it continues to erect ever-higher barriers to shedding that status, without a single policy discussion at any level of government about the merits of this action. Those who think not can be expected to resist per Foucault, or, if it suits your taste better, Locke:
[People] therefore in society having property, they have such a right to the goods, which by the law of the community are their’s, that no body hath a right to take their substance or any part of it from them, without their own consent: without this they have no property at all; for I have truly no property in that, which another can by right take from me, when he pleases, against my consent…..”
http://taxpol.blogspot.ca/2014/09/the-power-to-tax.html ‘The power to tax’ Allison Christians
It is a human and civil rights offense, and an unforgivable affront that a US Financial Crimes Enforcement agency should baldly state that:
“Generally, a child is responsible for filing his or her own FBAR report. ”
This is an egregious crime against minors outside the US, and their families. According to the US, a minor does not have the legal capacity sufficient to legally renounce US citizenship, and yet FINCEN and the US Treasury issues advice to them that they should file their own FBARs, which implies that FINCEN considers that minors outside the US are capable of the serious financial crimes it was specifically designed to track (money laundering, terror funding, drug trafficking, etc. ) sufficient to form the intent to commit the financial crimes that the Bank Secrecy Act was originally intended to deter, and to understand the Bank Secrecy Act, the FBAR form, instructions, and penalties on their piddly savings accounts, and their RESPs – and the US holds children abroad (who the US claims the right to tax and penalize) directly responsible for their own FBARs and US taxation of their RESPs.
Which is basically a US extraterritorial tax and penalty regime that harvests the government grants funded by Canadian taxpayers, and the contributions that the child, their parents, and other Canadian relatives sought to make via the RESP in order to educate them and to secure their future wellbeing.
And, if the child is a deemed US citizen and their parents are not? Who then bears the responsibility? The non-US person parents have no obligation under US law. The minor is not legally competent.
Yet the US is sufficiently arrogant and aggressive enough to assert that minors should file their own FBARs, and do so online, and under the FBAR penalty regime. And what advice do they issue when the owner of the account (ex. RDSP) is not a minor, but is also declared legally incompetent? And therefore also incompetent to understand and complete an FBAR?
That is sick and twisted.
Yet some Canadian MPs in the Conservative party assert that they ‘respect’ the ‘right’ of the US to make and apply its own tax laws even inside Canada, and have voted to assist the US by overriding Canadian laws and denying an amendment to exempt those resident in Canada from the FATCA IGA in the enabling legislation they enacted.
Any news on whether the complaint has been accepted by the UN?
This morning I attended the Republican Unity Breakfast in Manchester, New Hampshire. I met Scott Brown, Republican nominee for U.S. Senator, and Marilinda Garcia, Republican nominee for U.S. House. I also met U.S. Senator Rand Paul, up from Kentucky, and U.S. Senator Kelly Ayotte. I walked up to each of them individually and addressed them, showing a copy of President Obama’s birth certificate downloaded from http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate
and said, “This is from the White House website, and sure enough, he was born in Hawaii, but look, his father was born in Kenya. So, wouldn’t that give the Kenyan government the right to claim him as a citizen born overseas, and then impose taxes and bank account reporting requirements on him, the same as the U.S. government imposes on U.S. citizens who live in Kenya? People who are no more American than Senator Ted Cruz is Canadian? He found out last year that he was still a Canadian citizen. People are finding out that they are U.S. citizens facing criminal charges and fines for failing to report their bank accounts to the U.S. Treasury when they don’t even live in the United States.”
Well, you should have seen the look on Senator Paul’s face when I made the point about taxing President Obama!
@Tom Alciere
That was a remarkable encounter you had, thanks for sharing. Rand Paul ‘get’s it’ already, so rather than responding with the usual deer-in-the-headlights look you might have other wise gotten, he could appreciate your angle. I hope he goes with it.
Have you seen this article written by Don Whiteley? Sadly, we lost one of our strongest fighters earlier this year. Here is his published story “The Accidental Kenyan”:
http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/archives/story.html?id=71cc9019-69f0-4556-8ab7-f257e8ec2ccf
Here is another instance where FATCA has severe consequences far beyond US tax compliance, and in fact, those who attempt to be or become US tax compliant face nightmarish consequences due to conflict with their other nationality and country of residence:
http://blogs.angloinfo.com/us-tax/2014/09/15/thank-you-fatca-youve-just-left-me-stateless/
….”Many do not have Social Security numbers (SSN) and are trying to obtain them simply in order to file US tax returns. They are learning the hard way that obtaining a SSN is extremely difficult to do after one has attained the age of 12. Some individuals are flying to the US in the hopes the process might be more expedient than dealing with the few Consulates or Embassies overseas that can process the SSN. If one resides in the Middle East, the specified Embassy for obtaining the SSN is located in Jerusalem, which isn’t accessible to Arabs due to escalating political tensions in the region. Becoming tax compliant is far easier said than done for many of my clients…”…..
…”Not only are many desperately struggling to become US tax compliant, many GCC nationals are becoming quite concerned that their government will learn they hold a prohibited “second” nationality. Under FATCA, foreign financial institutions must agree to verification and due diligence procedures – meaning they must be on the look-out for customers, owners or beneficiaries evidencing any “US indicia”. They must identify and report directly to the US Internal Revenue Service or to their own government via an intergovernmental agreement (IGA), information on US account holders. FATCA will help expose GCC nationals who hold US citizenship by a financial institution’s transmission of that information directly to the home country government agency responsible for gathering information under the IGA. America, in its quest to root out tax cheats, has now put many of its own innocent citizens in a very perilous position……”……
This is the article I have sent to relatives: I wanted to send them an article I thought that they would easily understand the situation. I believe the Human Rights Complaint may also be something easily understandable, and look forward to this even if only after April. This is a good one to send:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/09/12/dear-son-why-you-should-leave-america-now/
I have asked them to vote Republican.
Our Human Rights Complaint has received an important mention at:
http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.ca/2014/09/fatcacbt-see-you-in-court.html.
Thank you, Victoria!
“The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) is warning foreign banks that scammers are trying to put one over on them when it comes to a new law cracking down on offshore tax evasion.
In a new alert, the tax agency said Wednesday that fraudsters around the world are posing as the IRS to try to get information about financial accounts or their holders under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA.” http://thehill.com/policy/finance/218765-irs-scammers-taking-advantage-of-new-law
“The IRS has received reports of incidents from multiple countries and continents.”
http://www.kpmg.com/US/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/taxnewsflash/Pages/2014-2/fatca-irs-warns-of-phishing-scams-for-fatca-related-account-data.aspx
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/intfinlaw/2014/09/fatca-phishing-to-steal-customer-account-data-has-begun.html
http://www.accountingweb.com/article/irs-alerts-foreign-banks-about-new-fatca-related-scam/223928
Is this not further evidence of a significant international and domestic human rights violation? Our data is extorted by the US via threats of economic sanction and might, is sent to the US, and exposed not only to US domestic fraud, but to the schemes of international criminals.
And there is NO notice, recourse or recompense if our data is stolen and financial and personal harm results.
Another mention of our Human Rights Complaint. Thank you for your original post, USCitizenAbroad!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/07/guest-post-the-accidental-tax-invasion/
Everything the USA historical represents is just that,history.
Just another reason to stay away stay away.stay away from the USA.
I asked you to include me on the complaint is there any update as to what is happening with it?
And how do i get access to read the complaint?
oktc971, The last update of this post still pertains:
You can communicate here regarding access to the password to read the UN Human Rights Complaint:
I have just updated this UN Human Rights Complaint post with the following, TODAY:
@Calgary411 (RE Human Rights Complaint update)
This is most interesting news. Do we have any information as to what university, what researcher? Was the request made to IBS? Did the UN have to agree? Is there a time frame for this study/evaluation? Will IBS be given the research report (before or after or without any advisement of the UN of these results)? Is the research being done in Canada, the US or elsewhere? Do tell us more!!!!!
Calgary: Just a small thing. Could you change the date of the update? It still says Sept. 10 in big bold letters and this might make a casual reader think that there is nothing new. On initially checking the thread after reading your email this morning I thought you hadn’t done the update yet,but then I read further. I nearly didn’t. Thanks! 🙂
LM,
My update is to show that the UN Human Rights Complaint is being used in some research. I don’t have further details and would not want to discourage other such study. I can see that this post at Isaac Brock would have been part of someone doing research. We hope our submission will be looked at in the UN Human Rights Committee’s April 2015 meeting and can then be publicly discussed. We do not yet have acknowledgement of the UN’s receipt of the Complaint.
@ Calgary411,
Nor would I want to discourage any further study. But to clarify, was the request made by the researcher to the UN? Or by the UN to the researcher? Or was the request made to IBS? And do you have any information on the particular researcher, a likely time frame for a report or anything other details?
Yikes!! Thanks, MuzzledNoMore.
LM, the request to view the UN Human Rights Complaint was made to me as the information provided on this post gave an address to do so to acquire the password that was required (and still is). That was, of course, for those who wanted to view before putting their names as signatories to the document. Sorry, I don’t have any further details. Today’s update is to show our UN Human Rights Complaint is not dead (although we don’t have acknowledgement of its receipt at the UN). As the ones that have already been available, I look forward to any research papers on the subject of FATCA that will be published in the future when we can then have access to read those.