If clicking on a link brings you to the wrong page of the comment thread, CLICK HERE to get to its current page.
UPDATE December 23, 2017: Please see the following post for the latest information: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/12/15/un-human-rights-complaint-quadruples-its-signatures/
UPDATE November 28, 2017:
Also, see MuzzledNoMore’s updated post, United Nations Human Rights Complaint: Seeking Advice and Additional Signatures
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UPDATE November 23, 2017:
UN Complaint Final July 29 2014 – updated links November 23 2017
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UPDATE JANUARY 10, 2017:
From MuzzledNoMore:
Just letting everybody know that we’re still waiting to hear from the UN about the status of our Complaint. With any luck we’ll have the matter taken care of within the next few months by the new Republican administration in Washington. Who knows? Maybe the UN is watching and waiting to see what happens as well. In any regard, the UN has informed us that it can take up to three years for a Complaint to reach the stage at which it will be considered or rejected.
If a “domestic” solution is possible, there will be no need for the UN to address the issue. When we filed the Complaint nearly two and a half years ago we could never have believed that repealing FATCA and switching to residence-based taxation would have made it to the 2016 Republican Party Platform. Now it remains to be seen if the party will follow through with its promises.
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UPDATE MAY 21, 2015:
Today we received official confirmation from the United Nations Human Rights Council that our Complaint has been received and is in the queue pending approval (or not) for admittance into one of the Working Groups. The next session of the Working Group on Communications is scheduled from 17 to 21 August 2015. Further information will be shared with us after that date.
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UPDATE NOVEMBER 6, 2014:
From MuzzledNoMore:
We have finally received confirmation that our Human Rights Complaint against the United States has been received by the United Nations. This is great news! But let’s not pop champagne corks just yet. There is no indication that the Complaint has been read or considered for acceptance into the complaints process in any way. That is all yet to come. But we have made a huge step forward! That deserves a few cheers all round … even without the bubbly!
UPDATE OCTOBER 27, 2014:
Permission has been given a university researcher to access to our UN Human Rights Complaint to analyze ethical assumptions on FATCA. That access will be used for academic purposes, content not to be released (as the UN has not yet acknowledged receipt of this UN Human Rights Complaint).
We view as a significant step that this document will be studied for moral dimensions and ethics. We continue to anticipate the time we will be able to publicly release contents of the Complaint, likely AFTER the next scheduled meeting to review such complaints, sometime in April 2015.
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UPDATE SEPTEMBER 10, 2014:
“JC” commented, and he’s right:
Whenever that text for the human rights complaint comes out that, I believe, will be a big help at raising awareness.
The text of the Human Rights Complaint will be published when we know the UN has received and considered it. There has been no confirmation that our submission was considered for the meeting in August (…our submission was sent just before the August meeting so, just by number of other submissions received before ours, our Human Rights Complaint may not have been considered in the time allotted). It looks like the next UN meeting to consider Human Rights Complaints is scheduled for April of 2015 — that Committee meets twice a year.
In the meantime, our fundraising must be pinned to its stand-alone legal claim and importance which absolutely addresses our human rights issues.
Donate Now: http://adcs-adsc.ca/
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August 7, 2014 UPDATE:
The Human Rights Complaint has been submitted. Thank you to those who worked on the document and made this happen. A very special thank you to all who came forward to put your names on this important document. We had a total of 41 signers, representing the countries of Canada, Germany, Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Estonia, Switzerland and Belgium.
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August 5, 2014 UPDATE:
Note: there is a confidentiality clause in the document that your name / nationality / country be kept confidential. My name and address will be the only one that might not be confidential. I wanted to share with you two notes waiting for me this morning:
Hi Carol,
I am very disappointed that more people did not come forward and sign this document, I do not understand why people are afraid to speak up for what they believe. People are so afraid of the bully acts of the USA, We must stand together, I am asking all people that the US government deem US citizens to step forward and stand up against the US and the Harper government for allowing FATCA into the Canadian banking system.
I am not on facebook or twitter. I give you permission to post this.
Disappointed
XXX
Hi Carol,
I am surprised that so few people have signed. This makes me uneasy. People must be frightened. Do you expect repercussions against the signers? At the moment I don’t have the strength to deal with any more troubles. Would you please put a hold on my name until I can evaluate your assessment of possible repercussions.
Thank you,
YYYY
I answered YYYY:
Absolutely. I can take your name off the list of signers if you are not comfortable with that — you must be OK with your decision. We will probably be sending the Complaint on Thursday, August 7th .
No, we don’t expect any repercussions against any of the signers. We will ask for confidentiality in one of the clauses.
As with everything else of this with this (persons on blogs, getting together for protest, etc.), people are afraid to step forward. The US weapon toward its people always is FEAR. That is what we see here. That is our biggest obstacle and what may defeat us in the end.
Dr. Stephen Kish, Chair of the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty signs his name on behalf of the millions of *US Persons* Abroad who are afraid to sign.
Thanks, YYYY.
FEAR: the most effective tool the USA has at its disposal is at work in all we see regarding US Persons Abroad coming forward in unison to fight the good fight. If anything defeats us, it will be our FEAR.
As you all know, I fear too for my son’s name to be out there as it is my duty as a parent to protect his best interests. Because of my own fear, I went through all the complex back US tax filings through use of professionals in the US compliance industry. That was my choice as I could absolutely not do it myself and I so wanted this behind me, to stop the leak of my hard-earned retirement funds to be passed to the US IRS. I’m still in this game. I replied to a commenter at Isaac Brock yesterday and Stephen Kish picked part of what I said to update the ADCS-ADSC Charter Challenge post yesterday:
UPDATE August 5, 2014 (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/)
Carol, an ADCS-ADSC Board Director, explains why she donated to this lawsuit:
The purpose of the lawsuit, to me, is to stop the obscene injustice of all of this, regain rights waived by the Canadian government’s implementation of the US FATCA IGA, thereby putting the financial institutions before individuals and families who are being criminalized!
I’m in for that just as I’m on this blog, hoping people learn from all of the stupid mistakes I made along the way — I don’t want others to make those same mistakes.
It’s about people getting their lives back, along with their dignity and their mental and physical health and to stop the the handing over to the US a good portion of what they’ve saved for their retirements.
It is about wanting Canada to remain a sovereign country, not taken over by the USA. It’s about what I think is right and not wanting to silently stand by and let this happen. It’s because I believe in free speech and don’t want to be shamed into not speaking out, at this point especially for other families who have a family member with some developmental disability or some other ‘mental incapacity’.
My update for now and my regards to all,
August 2, 2014 UPDATE:
Thank you very much for everyone who has corresponded to me at calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com to request the password and give permission for your signatures to be added. Your supportive emails are wonderful.
He is what we have for signers to the Human Rights Document:
18 – Canada
2 – UK
1 – Australia
1 – Belgium (US/Dutch Citizen)
1 – Denmark
1 – Germany
1 – Japan
1 – Switzerland
Note that one of the Canadian signers is Dr. Stephen Kish (Canadian, US)–signing personally, and on behalf of the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty” Board of Directors, and the millions of U.S. persons living abroad who are too frightened to sign this document.
Also waiting to hear back from 4 in Canada (one from Quebec) and one from New Zealand.
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July 30, 2014 UPDATE:
Here is the FINAL Human Rights Complaint, available to those that are considering signing. To access the password for this document, contact and request from calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
Each person sending a request will receive a copy from calgary411 “in Confidence” with the CLEAR understanding that it is NOT to be published. For anyone who wants to have another person read/sign the document, that other person also needs to obtain it through the Isaac Brock Society or Maple Sandbox channels. Signatures will only be accepted from those who have gotten the document through calgary411. This stipulation is necessary to keep some lid on the proliferation of this information.
We will announce when we know the timing for the agency committee looking at this document for review. We will update on this post any feedback from the agency as it is received.
This document is the collaboration of contributors to both blogs and took over a month to write, discuss and edit in consensus with a group of 15 who have vetted and approved it in its entirety. It stands as presented to them. Bloggers can have their say but there will be no further changes to the document. It is what the agency says that matters.
Sign if you are in agreement and can do so by providing to calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com your name and your nationality and/or country of residence. The Human Rights Complaint will be submitted electronically. Submitters’ names and nationalities will be typed onto the lines provided on page 1. No physical signature is required.
If you are not comfortable with the document, you do not have to sign.
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.
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Two dedicated individuals who participate at both the Isaac Brock Society and the Maple Sandbox blogs have prepared a comprehensive Human Rights Complaint that will be submitted on behalf of all *US Persons Abroad* the world over. Others offered suggestions on how that information should best be presented in the constraint of number of pages allowed for the Complaint. We appreciate the legal eye and suggestions for going forward with this Complaint from Professor Allison Christians.
The document now complete, I have been asked to post an announcement on their behalf. Unfortunately, because of their personal situations, they cannot lend their names to the document and this will be the end of Phase I, produced for all of us, with their great care.
I so appreciate the incredible work that has gone into this on behalf of all of us. Here is what they say:
A group of writers from the Isaac Brock Society and Maple Sandbox blogs has prepared a document that challenges citizenship-based taxation (CBT) as a violation of internationally recognized human rights. This document will be submitted as a formal complaint to a major international human rights organization within the next ten days.
Any readers who would like to support this effort by “co-signing” (having their names added to the list of those filing the complaint) should so indicate by sending an email to: calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
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The Canadian writers of the complaint hope to make this a truly international effort. Bloggers from all over the world are welcome to lend their names to this historic document. Signers do not have to be US Persons.****************
Signers should feel comfortable with using their own names (pseudonyms are unacceptable in this instance) and should provide their nationality and/or country of residence as well.
@Calgary411 – – Another timely article (and encouraging news) discovered by observant Brockers!!! I don’t know if we can “make use” of this information, to gather support in our efforts. But it certainly is heartening to know that there are many aware homelanders who are beginning to feel disturbed about how the IRS practices it’s “craft” and how these tactics are beginning to harm the US. We can hope for change (and maybe if we work at it and are lucky we can get some – – at least moral support – – from homeland citizen-tax groups?). Thanks for bringing this article to all our attention!!!
LM, I read it differently, not encouraging for those overseas. This group seems to me, if nothing else, very insular regarding both US corporations and US persons, equating both with not being “economically patriotic”. It looks like 2015 election strategy to label corporations, and likely as well individuals abroad, economic traitors. Is this not similar to what we have seen in the media painting us all with the same sins as their resident tax evaders who really do send their US-untaxed money offshore?
http://www.americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-coalition-sees-poll-results-on-corporate-inversions-as-a-sign-that-the-issue-will-be-hot-this-election-season/press/2014/08/05/tax-fairness-coalition-sees-poll-results-on-corporate-inversions-as-a-sign-that-the-issue-will-be-hot-this-election-season/
Is it encouraging — I need further input here.
Mea Culpa – – Sorry, I had read the first article that you sent (about companies and USC renouncing, with lots of empathetic/supportive comments) but not the second (about Obama using inversions as their platform to get middle-class voters on side this November) until just this morning. Definitely not encouraging.
This may be relevant re the international human rights complaint:
See;
‘Serbia To Protect Taxpayers’ Rights Under FATCA’
by Lorys Charalambous, Tax-News.com, Cyprus
19 August 2014
http://www.tax-news.com/news/Serbia_To_Protect_Taxpayers_Rights_Under_FATCA____65575.html#sthash.yZfv4HDS.dpuf
……….”Sabic also observed that the USA is not party to the Council of Europe’s Convention 108, meaning that the transfer of personal data across borders would still require the Commissioner’s consent. He explained that all requests for transfer in such circumstances would have to accord with Article 53 of Serbia’s Law on Personal Data Protection………..”.
The Serbian Information Commissioner Sabic refers above to;
http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/108.htm
‘Convention for the Protection of Individuals with regard to Automatic Processing of Personal Data
Strasbourg, 28.I.1981’
http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/EN/Reports/HTML/108.htm
This seems like a very significant discussion of the privacy implications and rights to data protection in Canada and elsewhere – regarding the transfer of personal information across borders and into the US:
https://privacyassociation.org/news/a/tokenization-gets-the-nod-from-canada/
The EU may have similar concerns.
Addendum to my posting of the IAPP link above. Jennifer Stoddart, the previous Privacy Commissioner of Canada is on the Board of Directors of the IAPP;
https://privacyassociation.org/about/person/003a000001Qp3HSAAZ/
Osgood sent us this on another thread:
“Aberdeen Asset Management in Australia now prohibits former “US Persons” from investing in their unit trusts. See point c on their FATCA compliance page at http://www.aberdeenasset.com.au/aam.nsf/australia/investorFATCACompliance
“We highlight the general prohibition on US Persons holding shares in the Funds, this is detailed in the prospectus of the Funds and/or Fund documentation. This prohibition remains even if your investors are effectively cured of their US person status under FATCA by the provision of the requisite documentation.
“So, even if you have renounced and have a CLN, you still can’t invest in their funds. Unbelievable.”
Yes, this is an unbelievable example of a human rights abuse being perpetrated against a certain group of people because of their national origin. We should send this information along to the UN as support for our position when the time comes to do so.
http://tax-expatriation.com/2014/08/20/part-3-unintended-consequences-of-fatca-will-taxpayer-individuals-personal-financial-data-at-irs-get-snowdened/
……….”The Washington Post, 14 August 2014, in an article titled ‘IRS handed taxpayer information to contractors without background checks’ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2014/08/14/irs-handed-taxpayer-information-to-contractor-without-background-checks/ focused on the recently released report of the Treasury Department oversight agency (The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration). In that news account, the article stated that the ” . . . that the IRS handed over a disc containing sensitive data on about 1.4 million taxpayers to a printing firm without any of the company’s employees being subjected to screenings. . . “
The full TIGTA report from 7 July 2014 can be reviewed here and is titled, Some Contractor Personnel Without Background Investigations Had Access to Taxpayer Data and Other Sensitive Information
As more and more information is made available, and as it goes through more and more hands via FATCA channels, there is bound to be significant leaks and stolen personal financial information of individuals around the world…..”……
@MuzzledNoMore
Thank you for the link.
It is especially disturbing that the USG is behaving this way even with regard to Australia. Australia has a history of supporting the US even on controversial matters where Canada goes their own way–for example, in Iraq and in an earlier generation Vietnam–so it is disturbing to see that this long history of very loyal friendship offers so meager rewards.
Incidentally, has the human rights complaint advanced to the point where there are formal opportunities to support it? I didn’t feel I could sign because it seemed to be based on living outside the US but if an opportunity comes to support it for those of us stateside it would be good to know.
@Dash1729 @MuzzeledNoMore Thanks for cross posting the information on Aberdeen Asset Management here. Just pointing out that it seems the decision not to allow former US persons to invest with them has been made by Aberdeen Asset Management, not the USG. Why, who knows? So, it could be used to show the effects of FATCA and CBT on US persons (and in this case former US persons), but I don’t think it is even contemplated in the US-Australian IGA.
qm raised an issue on another thread related to the security of US citizens: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca/comment-page-114/#comment-2686605
I replied as follows:
This could surely be highlighted in any Human Rights complaint if it was not already done?
This http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/08/22/comparison-of-fees-and-procedures-for-renouncing-citizenship-in-various-countries/ and the evidence that the US is going to raise the fees for renouncing, and perhaps institute one for relinquishing is going to provide further support for a human rights complaint that the US is denying those it claims as citizens from choosing their nationality – effectively using fees and onerous process and tax and penalty provisions as a Berlin Wall to keep people bound to the US and to their involuntary status as ‘taxable US persons’ abroad.
@Dash1729 U.S. and Australia. While Australia at times has been a closer supporter of America than Canada, Canada apparently has been better (or having more knowledgeable people involved) at asking for ‘concessions’ in their tax treaty, particularly for the CRA not to collect IRS debts, and for the retirement account exclusion (even though the U.S. requires individuals to submit a form every three years to ask for that exclusion). These ‘concessions’ less important at the time the treaty was signed are now more important in view of the FATCA changes over the past few years.
However, generally, both countries have accepted in their treaties the right for the U.S. to treat their own countries as part of the U.S. for tax purposes, and to have U.S. definitions apply such as ‘unqualified pension fund.’
Dash: The UN committee wrapped up their 5-day bi-annual meeting today so we should be learning the status of the Complaint soon. How soon, I don’t know. We’ll keep you posted.
Osgood: Concerns such as those you raised in your Aug. 21 comment were, indeed, included in the Complaint.
Is the content of the complaint posted somewhere?
Mark Twain: The complaint was temporarily available to read by special request for those who were considering placing their names on the document as submitters. It will be available for everyone to read as soon as we receive notification from the UN that it has been accepted into the complaints process. We are all hoping that this takes place very soon.
Launching the Human Rights complaint to the UN is a great initiative!
Another one is needed to European Human Rights bodies. I think I read somewhere that a complaint can be made directly to the European Court of Justice without being required to work its way up through national courts. I could be wrong, but if that is the case, it would be great to launch one using that track as well.
I am convinced that the only way to bring an end to CBT is by multiple law suits and complaints to international organisations. Ending CBT altogether can only be done by Congress but they will not do anything about it unless they become embarrassed enough by the worldwide exposure of their abuses.
I also think that high numbers of renunciations will be a very important factor in bringing about change.
The Republicans seem to be waking up to the issue. But I think the Democrats will be the hardest to deal with. They have a real affinity towards picking people’s pockets in order to buy votes from others. And expats make convenient targets for pocket-picking with little or no repercussions at the moment. This is what has to change.
Beating up on expats / tainted persons needs to cost them something.
Every time the renunciation numbers go up, the press writes about it.
Every time a lawsuit gets launched, the press will write about it.
Expats may have no representation in congress and are scattered all among many countries making them appear to be weak and easy targets for abuse. But that perceived weakness can be turned around to an advantage.
Living in many different countries means many different lawsuits. The more lawsuits, the better.
On another note, I do not think it is beneficial to spend energy trying to unite the various expat organisations (ACA, AARO, FAWCO, IBS, MS etc). Coordination is definitely needed, but each organisation has its own participants and resources (or lack thereof). Each organisation also has its own interests at stake and approach towards the issues which means multiple angles of attack on the problem.
The anti-CBT movement needs to embrace its diverse nature, not try to change it.
Thank you very much for keeping us apprised @MuzzeledNoMore.
I am hoping that when this is available for sharing and wider dissemination that we can send it to members of the EU Parliament, like MEP Sophie In’t Veld.
http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.ca/2013/05/a-day-at-european-parliament-in-brussels.html
http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.ca/2013/05/public-hearing-on-fatca-at-european.html
http://youtu.be/3uVZiFNkDsA https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRQ_iDAPmkxiICvQB08dj3k8X57k1UdPX
In regards to laying a claim in the EU.
Just thinking this out mechanically.
I am a national of both my home country and also a Citizen of the European Union. Yes, a dual Citizen but under the law of my home country and the EU. My passport clearly states that a Citizen of the European Union.
As an EU Citizen, resident in the EU and within the territory of the EU, is it a violation of my rights to be “classified” as anything but an EU Citizen?
If Obama and Congress face legal challenges in the US, Canada, EU and the UN, something has to change.
Not to forget, record renunciations as well. The more, the better!
FromTheWilderness, et al.: Great ideas here the past few days about sending complaints to multiple organizations. This may well be the way to go. We are still awaiting word from the UN. It’s a bureaucracy like any other and it may take some time before we hear about the status of our complaint. We’ll see what September brings and then seriously consider some of the ideas that have come forward here. Thanks everyone!
George,
As to the procedure for contesting a FATCA IGA in the EU, this is what I was told from a person in a European country:
First, the person fights this in his/her local country. You are likely to lose. After losing, then you go to the EU.
No idea whether this info is accurate. By the way, I did try to enlist attorneys in many different European countries for a lawsuit, but failed. In Switzerland the FATCA law appears to have “higher” standing than that of the Swiss Constitution.
[Thanks for your donation #9 that keeps the Canadian lawsuit going!]
One more for the Human Rights complaint; the possibility of being de-frauded or extorted (as if the extortion threat from USG was not enough).
http://en.ria.ru/business/20140828/192410410/Russian-Banks-Receive-Fake-Requests-to-Disclose-US-Client-Data-.html
Further to my recent post with regard to Aberdeen Asset Management in Australia I emailed them concerning their apparent prohibition of former US Persons from investing with them. They replied as follows:
I’m not sure if they didn’t understand the due diligence requirements or if they changed their mind. You still aren’t able to invest with them if you are a fully documented tax compliant US Person.