If clicking on a link brings you to the wrong page of the comment thread, CLICK HERE to get to its current page.
UPDATE December 23, 2017: Please see the following post for the latest information: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/12/15/un-human-rights-complaint-quadruples-its-signatures/
UPDATE November 28, 2017:
Also, see MuzzledNoMore’s updated post, United Nations Human Rights Complaint: Seeking Advice and Additional Signatures
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UPDATE November 23, 2017:
UN Complaint Final July 29 2014 – updated links November 23 2017
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UPDATE JANUARY 10, 2017:
From MuzzledNoMore:
Just letting everybody know that we’re still waiting to hear from the UN about the status of our Complaint. With any luck we’ll have the matter taken care of within the next few months by the new Republican administration in Washington. Who knows? Maybe the UN is watching and waiting to see what happens as well. In any regard, the UN has informed us that it can take up to three years for a Complaint to reach the stage at which it will be considered or rejected.
If a “domestic” solution is possible, there will be no need for the UN to address the issue. When we filed the Complaint nearly two and a half years ago we could never have believed that repealing FATCA and switching to residence-based taxation would have made it to the 2016 Republican Party Platform. Now it remains to be seen if the party will follow through with its promises.
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UPDATE MAY 21, 2015:
Today we received official confirmation from the United Nations Human Rights Council that our Complaint has been received and is in the queue pending approval (or not) for admittance into one of the Working Groups. The next session of the Working Group on Communications is scheduled from 17 to 21 August 2015. Further information will be shared with us after that date.
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UPDATE NOVEMBER 6, 2014:
From MuzzledNoMore:
We have finally received confirmation that our Human Rights Complaint against the United States has been received by the United Nations. This is great news! But let’s not pop champagne corks just yet. There is no indication that the Complaint has been read or considered for acceptance into the complaints process in any way. That is all yet to come. But we have made a huge step forward! That deserves a few cheers all round … even without the bubbly!
UPDATE OCTOBER 27, 2014:
Permission has been given a university researcher to access to our UN Human Rights Complaint to analyze ethical assumptions on FATCA. That access will be used for academic purposes, content not to be released (as the UN has not yet acknowledged receipt of this UN Human Rights Complaint).
We view as a significant step that this document will be studied for moral dimensions and ethics. We continue to anticipate the time we will be able to publicly release contents of the Complaint, likely AFTER the next scheduled meeting to review such complaints, sometime in April 2015.
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UPDATE SEPTEMBER 10, 2014:
“JC” commented, and he’s right:
Whenever that text for the human rights complaint comes out that, I believe, will be a big help at raising awareness.
The text of the Human Rights Complaint will be published when we know the UN has received and considered it. There has been no confirmation that our submission was considered for the meeting in August (…our submission was sent just before the August meeting so, just by number of other submissions received before ours, our Human Rights Complaint may not have been considered in the time allotted). It looks like the next UN meeting to consider Human Rights Complaints is scheduled for April of 2015 — that Committee meets twice a year.
In the meantime, our fundraising must be pinned to its stand-alone legal claim and importance which absolutely addresses our human rights issues.
Donate Now: http://adcs-adsc.ca/
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August 7, 2014 UPDATE:
The Human Rights Complaint has been submitted. Thank you to those who worked on the document and made this happen. A very special thank you to all who came forward to put your names on this important document. We had a total of 41 signers, representing the countries of Canada, Germany, Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Estonia, Switzerland and Belgium.
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August 5, 2014 UPDATE:
Note: there is a confidentiality clause in the document that your name / nationality / country be kept confidential. My name and address will be the only one that might not be confidential. I wanted to share with you two notes waiting for me this morning:
Hi Carol,
I am very disappointed that more people did not come forward and sign this document, I do not understand why people are afraid to speak up for what they believe. People are so afraid of the bully acts of the USA, We must stand together, I am asking all people that the US government deem US citizens to step forward and stand up against the US and the Harper government for allowing FATCA into the Canadian banking system.
I am not on facebook or twitter. I give you permission to post this.
Disappointed
XXX
Hi Carol,
I am surprised that so few people have signed. This makes me uneasy. People must be frightened. Do you expect repercussions against the signers? At the moment I don’t have the strength to deal with any more troubles. Would you please put a hold on my name until I can evaluate your assessment of possible repercussions.
Thank you,
YYYY
I answered YYYY:
Absolutely. I can take your name off the list of signers if you are not comfortable with that — you must be OK with your decision. We will probably be sending the Complaint on Thursday, August 7th .
No, we don’t expect any repercussions against any of the signers. We will ask for confidentiality in one of the clauses.
As with everything else of this with this (persons on blogs, getting together for protest, etc.), people are afraid to step forward. The US weapon toward its people always is FEAR. That is what we see here. That is our biggest obstacle and what may defeat us in the end.
Dr. Stephen Kish, Chair of the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty signs his name on behalf of the millions of *US Persons* Abroad who are afraid to sign.
Thanks, YYYY.
FEAR: the most effective tool the USA has at its disposal is at work in all we see regarding US Persons Abroad coming forward in unison to fight the good fight. If anything defeats us, it will be our FEAR.
As you all know, I fear too for my son’s name to be out there as it is my duty as a parent to protect his best interests. Because of my own fear, I went through all the complex back US tax filings through use of professionals in the US compliance industry. That was my choice as I could absolutely not do it myself and I so wanted this behind me, to stop the leak of my hard-earned retirement funds to be passed to the US IRS. I’m still in this game. I replied to a commenter at Isaac Brock yesterday and Stephen Kish picked part of what I said to update the ADCS-ADSC Charter Challenge post yesterday:
UPDATE August 5, 2014 (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/)
Carol, an ADCS-ADSC Board Director, explains why she donated to this lawsuit:
The purpose of the lawsuit, to me, is to stop the obscene injustice of all of this, regain rights waived by the Canadian government’s implementation of the US FATCA IGA, thereby putting the financial institutions before individuals and families who are being criminalized!
I’m in for that just as I’m on this blog, hoping people learn from all of the stupid mistakes I made along the way — I don’t want others to make those same mistakes.
It’s about people getting their lives back, along with their dignity and their mental and physical health and to stop the the handing over to the US a good portion of what they’ve saved for their retirements.
It is about wanting Canada to remain a sovereign country, not taken over by the USA. It’s about what I think is right and not wanting to silently stand by and let this happen. It’s because I believe in free speech and don’t want to be shamed into not speaking out, at this point especially for other families who have a family member with some developmental disability or some other ‘mental incapacity’.
My update for now and my regards to all,
August 2, 2014 UPDATE:
Thank you very much for everyone who has corresponded to me at calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com to request the password and give permission for your signatures to be added. Your supportive emails are wonderful.
He is what we have for signers to the Human Rights Document:
18 – Canada
2 – UK
1 – Australia
1 – Belgium (US/Dutch Citizen)
1 – Denmark
1 – Germany
1 – Japan
1 – Switzerland
Note that one of the Canadian signers is Dr. Stephen Kish (Canadian, US)–signing personally, and on behalf of the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty” Board of Directors, and the millions of U.S. persons living abroad who are too frightened to sign this document.
Also waiting to hear back from 4 in Canada (one from Quebec) and one from New Zealand.
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July 30, 2014 UPDATE:
Here is the FINAL Human Rights Complaint, available to those that are considering signing. To access the password for this document, contact and request from calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
Each person sending a request will receive a copy from calgary411 “in Confidence” with the CLEAR understanding that it is NOT to be published. For anyone who wants to have another person read/sign the document, that other person also needs to obtain it through the Isaac Brock Society or Maple Sandbox channels. Signatures will only be accepted from those who have gotten the document through calgary411. This stipulation is necessary to keep some lid on the proliferation of this information.
We will announce when we know the timing for the agency committee looking at this document for review. We will update on this post any feedback from the agency as it is received.
This document is the collaboration of contributors to both blogs and took over a month to write, discuss and edit in consensus with a group of 15 who have vetted and approved it in its entirety. It stands as presented to them. Bloggers can have their say but there will be no further changes to the document. It is what the agency says that matters.
Sign if you are in agreement and can do so by providing to calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com your name and your nationality and/or country of residence. The Human Rights Complaint will be submitted electronically. Submitters’ names and nationalities will be typed onto the lines provided on page 1. No physical signature is required.
If you are not comfortable with the document, you do not have to sign.
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.
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Two dedicated individuals who participate at both the Isaac Brock Society and the Maple Sandbox blogs have prepared a comprehensive Human Rights Complaint that will be submitted on behalf of all *US Persons Abroad* the world over. Others offered suggestions on how that information should best be presented in the constraint of number of pages allowed for the Complaint. We appreciate the legal eye and suggestions for going forward with this Complaint from Professor Allison Christians.
The document now complete, I have been asked to post an announcement on their behalf. Unfortunately, because of their personal situations, they cannot lend their names to the document and this will be the end of Phase I, produced for all of us, with their great care.
I so appreciate the incredible work that has gone into this on behalf of all of us. Here is what they say:
A group of writers from the Isaac Brock Society and Maple Sandbox blogs has prepared a document that challenges citizenship-based taxation (CBT) as a violation of internationally recognized human rights. This document will be submitted as a formal complaint to a major international human rights organization within the next ten days.
Any readers who would like to support this effort by “co-signing” (having their names added to the list of those filing the complaint) should so indicate by sending an email to: calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
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The Canadian writers of the complaint hope to make this a truly international effort. Bloggers from all over the world are welcome to lend their names to this historic document. Signers do not have to be US Persons.****************
Signers should feel comfortable with using their own names (pseudonyms are unacceptable in this instance) and should provide their nationality and/or country of residence as well.
@ BB
There’s always another side to a politicized story …
https://www.tesfanews.net/eritrea-diaspora-tax-netherlands-media/
You’ll love the one and only comment, I think.
Embee – I see 33 comments?
I agree there’s always more than one view about just about anything.
Oops, I didn’t scroll down. Make that the top comment instead of one and only..
It appears to be the one and only comment that mentions US tax though. Unfortunately comments are now closed.
@plaxy
I may soon have the opportunity to act as though CBT doesn’t exist. BTW, RBT affects US non-residents as much as CBT affects US residents 🙂
Indeed. They are one and the same. 😉
A lot of us acted as though CBT didn’t exist for years and years, not having ever heard anything about being expected to continue paying US taxes.
Nothing happened.
Eventually, FATCA was created and the banks started demanding SSNs. But as far as US taxation goes – nothing just kept on happening.
Nothing ever did happen. Except while I was renouncing the US started sending me SS.
Tax-free. 🙂
I hope the UN is monitoring this Netherlands-Eritrean situation. Maybe it will remind them that they’ve got a Human Rights Complaint against the US version of the Eritrean diaspora tax in their queue!
I know that the detail of the two systems are not the same, but when you shake out all the chaff what you end up with is two systems founded on the same principle: it’s perfectly permissible to tax foreign residents on foreign-earned money simply because they remain citizens of the country. Our premise is that this is NOT permissible and that taxation should not be imposed on the basis of identity. Period.
We won’t be privy to this in order to see what end position the presenters take and what evidence they will offer, but interesting that this topic is being raised re FATCA;
‘Are Human Rights Affected By Tax Information Reporting and Disclosures’
http://www.capdale.com/scott-michel-examines-whether-human-rights-are-affected-by-tax-information-reporting-and-disclosures-at-aba-paris-sessions
The presenters don’t seem to include experts in human rights.
Yesterday the United States resigned its position on the UN Human Rights Council. I don’t know what, if any, effect this may have on the pace (glacial so far) of action on our Human Rights Complaint. It seems to me, that with the United States out of the way, some sort of progress is now more likely.
Even if one is not impressed with the human rights records of some of the nations that currently make up the HR Council (or of the likelihood that the United States will pay the slightest bit of attention to a conclusion reached by this body) our Complaint is still a golden opportunity for the press to tell our story complete with documented evidence of how extra-territorial US tax law is abusive to ALL Americans and those of other nations with whom they associate.
I’d the UN (the US government’s lap dog) refuse to do anything about this, then maybe we should put pressure on them.
The 4th Anniversary (August 7) of the submission of our Complaint has now come and gone. No action on the part of the UN has yet been taken and no communication from them has been received since formal acknowledgement of its receipt in May 2015. An update of our situation has been sent to the UN annually since then. I wish there was better news I could report to all of you.
@MuzzledNoMore,
This is very frustrating, but I appreciate the update and your following up with them annually. I hope some day (soon!) you will surprise us with good news. Thanks.
Thank you for your continued perserverence, MuzzledNoMore. Would be nice if they told you whether it’s being considered or not.
I echo the heartfelt thanks above @MuzzledNoMore, for staying the course, and for all the other work you’ve done.
I, too, add my thanks to MNM. Would be nice? Should be a requirement for such an *esteemed* organization to answer the simple question, now asked several times — can they confirm that this UN Human Rights Complaint has indeed been received / entered into their system and, if so, is it being considered? A simple courtesy to let us know where MNM’s work and all who signed the Complaint stands.
Thanks for all you are doing. We will be heard some day. Thus US shame has to end
I suspect the complaint is in a locked draw with one of those nuclear hazard symbols on it.
The UN does NOT want to take on the USA over this issue, it just doesn’t.
Thanks, everyone, for YOUR perseverance. I fear that Mike is right, but we have to keep at it regardless. Our cause is so right and so just that it infuriates me no end that we are met in every corner either by stony silence or outright vilification. The best to all and each while we continue waiting for the justice we are owed.
Further evidence of US arrogance and blatant disregard for not only international human rights principles, but also the law of the US regarding the right to renounce;
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-tax-repatriation-canadian-1.4779747
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2018/08/13/another-article-by-lizt1-about-the-ustransitiontax-just-when-you-thought-it-couldnt-get-worse/
Note; “….Those hit by the tax can elect to pay it over eight years — but the new guidance says those who renounce their U.S. citizenship have to pay it immediately.”……..
Thus effectively preventing people from renouncing. As if 2350 USD. and the Exit tax wasn’t already a sufficiently unconstitutional deterrent and barrier to shedding an unwanted or harmful or involuntary citizenship.
Well here we are in March 2019 and what do we have from the UN?
*Crickets*.
I’m actually taking to someone right now on another forum who works for the UN on human rights issues. He answered a comment by saying that Americans are deluding themselves if they think they are more free than Europeans, then I noticed he works for the UN so I asked him if he is aware of the complaint.
He says he is but is otherwise pretty tight lipped it seems.
Now, time to see if I can find his contact information…. 😉
And in response to this question,…..”Some of us suspect the UN may have placed this complaint it in a drawer marked “too hot to handle” I get this answer from the horses mouth….
“No, the problem has been addressed with every new united states ambassador that America appoints to deal with the United Nations.
The Americans want their citizens abroad to still pay taxes to the U.S. for the money that they made while living in foreign countries. Due to this, the Americans claim that it is not a penalty for leaving America.
We have been successful in convincing a number of countries not to extricate these former citizens back to America for prosecution.
This was done in silence because America would not back down on the issue.”
So there you have it, the UN had a quiet chat with the ambassador who said it’s what Americans in the US want, so that’s ok then.
I despair, I really do.
“We have been successful in convincing a number of countries not to extricate these former citizens back to America for prosecution.”
Extradite? Were these former citizens being prosecuted for tax crime? Why would the UN wish to prevent extradition?
The guy has an English sounding name he posts with but he’s clearly not a native speaker.
“We did not have a quite chat with the US ambassador, the US ambassadors were actually confronted, and we were able to counter evey contention they brought up.
The issue is the same ( america argues) as a criminal issue of an american who flees their nation due to commiting a crime.
I cannot make americans see the truth if they refuse to see it.
Wisdom to a fool is folly, and as a dog returns to it’s vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
Your removal from america is your best move, because you are much better off in Europe then you are in america.”
So, the UN asked the US to stop doing it and the US said no.
Next……
The UN asked the US to stop doing what?
Mike: Thank you so much for your posts!!! Thanks to your conversation, we now know that our Complaint has not been “totally” ignored. I’m so glad you stepped forward to ask the pertinent question on that other forum. I’m quite sad, though, that it took a casual online chat with a UN worker to bring this to light.
I wish we had some official confirmation of what, if anything, they intend to do formally. When, for example, will we be released from their gag order that prevents us from publishing the Complaint? Will these “chats” with the ambassadors be the only “formality” we can expect? But I am THRILLED that your contact knew of the Complaint and, moreover, knew what had been done with it thus far. Most importantly, we now KNOW that the US government is on notice that a Human Rights Complaint has been filed against it for its abuse of tax residents of other countries.
Again, Mike, THANK YOU for posting what you’ve found out!!!!