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UPDATE December 23, 2017: Please see the following post for the latest information: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/12/15/un-human-rights-complaint-quadruples-its-signatures/
UPDATE November 28, 2017:
Also, see MuzzledNoMore’s updated post, United Nations Human Rights Complaint: Seeking Advice and Additional Signatures
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UPDATE November 23, 2017:
UN Complaint Final July 29 2014 – updated links November 23 2017
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UPDATE JANUARY 10, 2017:
From MuzzledNoMore:
Just letting everybody know that we’re still waiting to hear from the UN about the status of our Complaint. With any luck we’ll have the matter taken care of within the next few months by the new Republican administration in Washington. Who knows? Maybe the UN is watching and waiting to see what happens as well. In any regard, the UN has informed us that it can take up to three years for a Complaint to reach the stage at which it will be considered or rejected.
If a “domestic” solution is possible, there will be no need for the UN to address the issue. When we filed the Complaint nearly two and a half years ago we could never have believed that repealing FATCA and switching to residence-based taxation would have made it to the 2016 Republican Party Platform. Now it remains to be seen if the party will follow through with its promises.
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UPDATE MAY 21, 2015:
Today we received official confirmation from the United Nations Human Rights Council that our Complaint has been received and is in the queue pending approval (or not) for admittance into one of the Working Groups. The next session of the Working Group on Communications is scheduled from 17 to 21 August 2015. Further information will be shared with us after that date.
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UPDATE NOVEMBER 6, 2014:
From MuzzledNoMore:
We have finally received confirmation that our Human Rights Complaint against the United States has been received by the United Nations. This is great news! But let’s not pop champagne corks just yet. There is no indication that the Complaint has been read or considered for acceptance into the complaints process in any way. That is all yet to come. But we have made a huge step forward! That deserves a few cheers all round … even without the bubbly!
UPDATE OCTOBER 27, 2014:
Permission has been given a university researcher to access to our UN Human Rights Complaint to analyze ethical assumptions on FATCA. That access will be used for academic purposes, content not to be released (as the UN has not yet acknowledged receipt of this UN Human Rights Complaint).
We view as a significant step that this document will be studied for moral dimensions and ethics. We continue to anticipate the time we will be able to publicly release contents of the Complaint, likely AFTER the next scheduled meeting to review such complaints, sometime in April 2015.
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UPDATE SEPTEMBER 10, 2014:
“JC” commented, and he’s right:
Whenever that text for the human rights complaint comes out that, I believe, will be a big help at raising awareness.
The text of the Human Rights Complaint will be published when we know the UN has received and considered it. There has been no confirmation that our submission was considered for the meeting in August (…our submission was sent just before the August meeting so, just by number of other submissions received before ours, our Human Rights Complaint may not have been considered in the time allotted). It looks like the next UN meeting to consider Human Rights Complaints is scheduled for April of 2015 — that Committee meets twice a year.
In the meantime, our fundraising must be pinned to its stand-alone legal claim and importance which absolutely addresses our human rights issues.
Donate Now: http://adcs-adsc.ca/
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August 7, 2014 UPDATE:
The Human Rights Complaint has been submitted. Thank you to those who worked on the document and made this happen. A very special thank you to all who came forward to put your names on this important document. We had a total of 41 signers, representing the countries of Canada, Germany, Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Estonia, Switzerland and Belgium.
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August 5, 2014 UPDATE:
Note: there is a confidentiality clause in the document that your name / nationality / country be kept confidential. My name and address will be the only one that might not be confidential. I wanted to share with you two notes waiting for me this morning:
Hi Carol,
I am very disappointed that more people did not come forward and sign this document, I do not understand why people are afraid to speak up for what they believe. People are so afraid of the bully acts of the USA, We must stand together, I am asking all people that the US government deem US citizens to step forward and stand up against the US and the Harper government for allowing FATCA into the Canadian banking system.
I am not on facebook or twitter. I give you permission to post this.
Disappointed
XXX
Hi Carol,
I am surprised that so few people have signed. This makes me uneasy. People must be frightened. Do you expect repercussions against the signers? At the moment I don’t have the strength to deal with any more troubles. Would you please put a hold on my name until I can evaluate your assessment of possible repercussions.
Thank you,
YYYY
I answered YYYY:
Absolutely. I can take your name off the list of signers if you are not comfortable with that — you must be OK with your decision. We will probably be sending the Complaint on Thursday, August 7th .
No, we don’t expect any repercussions against any of the signers. We will ask for confidentiality in one of the clauses.
As with everything else of this with this (persons on blogs, getting together for protest, etc.), people are afraid to step forward. The US weapon toward its people always is FEAR. That is what we see here. That is our biggest obstacle and what may defeat us in the end.
Dr. Stephen Kish, Chair of the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty signs his name on behalf of the millions of *US Persons* Abroad who are afraid to sign.
Thanks, YYYY.
FEAR: the most effective tool the USA has at its disposal is at work in all we see regarding US Persons Abroad coming forward in unison to fight the good fight. If anything defeats us, it will be our FEAR.
As you all know, I fear too for my son’s name to be out there as it is my duty as a parent to protect his best interests. Because of my own fear, I went through all the complex back US tax filings through use of professionals in the US compliance industry. That was my choice as I could absolutely not do it myself and I so wanted this behind me, to stop the leak of my hard-earned retirement funds to be passed to the US IRS. I’m still in this game. I replied to a commenter at Isaac Brock yesterday and Stephen Kish picked part of what I said to update the ADCS-ADSC Charter Challenge post yesterday:
UPDATE August 5, 2014 (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/)
Carol, an ADCS-ADSC Board Director, explains why she donated to this lawsuit:
The purpose of the lawsuit, to me, is to stop the obscene injustice of all of this, regain rights waived by the Canadian government’s implementation of the US FATCA IGA, thereby putting the financial institutions before individuals and families who are being criminalized!
I’m in for that just as I’m on this blog, hoping people learn from all of the stupid mistakes I made along the way — I don’t want others to make those same mistakes.
It’s about people getting their lives back, along with their dignity and their mental and physical health and to stop the the handing over to the US a good portion of what they’ve saved for their retirements.
It is about wanting Canada to remain a sovereign country, not taken over by the USA. It’s about what I think is right and not wanting to silently stand by and let this happen. It’s because I believe in free speech and don’t want to be shamed into not speaking out, at this point especially for other families who have a family member with some developmental disability or some other ‘mental incapacity’.
My update for now and my regards to all,
August 2, 2014 UPDATE:
Thank you very much for everyone who has corresponded to me at calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com to request the password and give permission for your signatures to be added. Your supportive emails are wonderful.
He is what we have for signers to the Human Rights Document:
18 – Canada
2 – UK
1 – Australia
1 – Belgium (US/Dutch Citizen)
1 – Denmark
1 – Germany
1 – Japan
1 – Switzerland
Note that one of the Canadian signers is Dr. Stephen Kish (Canadian, US)–signing personally, and on behalf of the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty” Board of Directors, and the millions of U.S. persons living abroad who are too frightened to sign this document.
Also waiting to hear back from 4 in Canada (one from Quebec) and one from New Zealand.
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July 30, 2014 UPDATE:
Here is the FINAL Human Rights Complaint, available to those that are considering signing. To access the password for this document, contact and request from calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
Each person sending a request will receive a copy from calgary411 “in Confidence” with the CLEAR understanding that it is NOT to be published. For anyone who wants to have another person read/sign the document, that other person also needs to obtain it through the Isaac Brock Society or Maple Sandbox channels. Signatures will only be accepted from those who have gotten the document through calgary411. This stipulation is necessary to keep some lid on the proliferation of this information.
We will announce when we know the timing for the agency committee looking at this document for review. We will update on this post any feedback from the agency as it is received.
This document is the collaboration of contributors to both blogs and took over a month to write, discuss and edit in consensus with a group of 15 who have vetted and approved it in its entirety. It stands as presented to them. Bloggers can have their say but there will be no further changes to the document. It is what the agency says that matters.
Sign if you are in agreement and can do so by providing to calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com your name and your nationality and/or country of residence. The Human Rights Complaint will be submitted electronically. Submitters’ names and nationalities will be typed onto the lines provided on page 1. No physical signature is required.
If you are not comfortable with the document, you do not have to sign.
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.
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Two dedicated individuals who participate at both the Isaac Brock Society and the Maple Sandbox blogs have prepared a comprehensive Human Rights Complaint that will be submitted on behalf of all *US Persons Abroad* the world over. Others offered suggestions on how that information should best be presented in the constraint of number of pages allowed for the Complaint. We appreciate the legal eye and suggestions for going forward with this Complaint from Professor Allison Christians.
The document now complete, I have been asked to post an announcement on their behalf. Unfortunately, because of their personal situations, they cannot lend their names to the document and this will be the end of Phase I, produced for all of us, with their great care.
I so appreciate the incredible work that has gone into this on behalf of all of us. Here is what they say:
A group of writers from the Isaac Brock Society and Maple Sandbox blogs has prepared a document that challenges citizenship-based taxation (CBT) as a violation of internationally recognized human rights. This document will be submitted as a formal complaint to a major international human rights organization within the next ten days.
Any readers who would like to support this effort by “co-signing” (having their names added to the list of those filing the complaint) should so indicate by sending an email to: calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
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The Canadian writers of the complaint hope to make this a truly international effort. Bloggers from all over the world are welcome to lend their names to this historic document. Signers do not have to be US Persons.****************
Signers should feel comfortable with using their own names (pseudonyms are unacceptable in this instance) and should provide their nationality and/or country of residence as well.
Congratulations! This is a milestone and will hopefully potentiate the two legal challenges as the third prong of a flanking manoeuvre. I just LOVE the ring of it: Global charge of human rights violations against the US! Even though they may have minimal influence to stop FATCA the embarrassment factor alone is well worth it.
A BIG thank you!
Too bad so many of us can not sign these sorts of petitions out of fear of being put on some IRS hit list.
Great effort. Is the complaint able to reflect the fact that many (if not most) people affected are unable or unwilling to sign using their real names due to fear of persecution at the hands of the IRS? This fact alone demonstrates the extent of the Human Rights violation that is occurring.
Let’s see the text; people should not be asked to sign a document that they have not read!
Osgood – yes.
Richard – we have had advice that it should not be published beforehand. Don’t sign if you have reservations. That’s OK.
This is incredible! Thank you to everyone who put their effort into this initiative.
I agree meridian, those who fear for themselves are a BIG part of the story!
@Richard, I’m sure that if you’re genuinely interested in participating, Calgary411 would consider emailing you a copy for your review, after all you can’t to commit to something you haven’t read.
” a document that challenges citizenship-based taxation (CBT) as a violation of internationally recognized human rights. This document will be submitted as a formal complaint to a major international human rights organization within the next ten days.” WOW! OUTSTANDING!!! To stand before a major international organization and say “NO WAY, THIS HAS TO STOP’ . We’ve come a long way!
Combined with the Toronto May debate about CBT, this is truly historic!!!
Pass it on to Nevil Green. Pass it on to USC in New Zealand, France, Switzerland, Britain….. And green-card holders all over the world!!!
It would be good to see this document but just knowing about it is a real high. Lets let it get submitted and have the human rights folks have the first read; we’ll know soon enough what their response is. But signing on from all parts of the world will give it greater weight………
A big thanks to all involved!!!!!
Ann,
I don’t know how to fix that — it came up when I hit the link as well. I have removed the link so persons will have to type in the email address — or copy / paste. Thanks.
Unfortunately, the Human Rights Complaint document will not be available to read before signing and before it is submitted. We do not want the Complaint publicized before the authority we are sending to actually receives it. We’ve had advice from Allison Christians and considerable discussion on this.
Not giving your name for ‘those signing’ is what anyone should do who is not comfortable in doing so.
Sorry for misunderstanding. A leap of faith!
Sounds like a cracker of an initiative.
Just an idea. Do we reach out internationally to those very much in support of residency based taxation – to seek alliances? I know americansabroad.org have made a strong stance on this. They are only based within the beltway of DC. How about Republican Committeeman Solomon Yue – I get the impression he is a good friend on the issue. The Republicans are going to try to add CBT to their platform with discussion on it in August.
Maybe once the letter is out, to send direct to the above.
I would have been interested in commenting on any drafts. I suppose that this will wait until stage II.
I am thinking that as we comment on news articles that we should also mention the Isaac Brock Society to yes, promote it.
This is very interesting! I am curious to know which international organization it will be. My guess is that it will be one of below, each of which will undoubtedly have its own staff members affected by CBT, FATCA and FBAR. I recently read somewhere that the head of ECHR, Nils Muižnieks, just renounced his US citizenship. So he is obviously aware of the issues.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/HRCIndex.aspx
http://www.echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=home
http://www.coe.int/en/web/commissioner/biography;jsessionid=BAA9DB0627A268C4E9F9EE5A789193DE
Check this strong anti FATCA article.
Comments may not show. Click on comment then on expand comments.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/07/28/unauthorized-fatca-intergovernmental-agreements-are-part-of-obamas-executive-overreach/
nice job. Hope that you find the needed signatures.
@Richard. I completely agree.
The post on Sandbox says this complaint is not specific to US persons, or at least implies that. It says you don’t have to be a US person to sign.
The post here at Brock says this is for US persons world-wide.
Which is it?
I am NOT a US person, haven’t been since 1975, and am NOT signing any document that could be interpreted as self-identification as a US person. So if I don’t get to see the document in its final form, before signing it, to verify with my own eyes that I’m not in any way self-identifying (nor limiting the application of the complaint to US persons only, I think CBT is wrong no matter which country decides to play that game) I’m not signing it (or any other document I can’t read in advance).
I don’t care what the legal advice is. Signing a document without reading is like signing a blank cheque. I don’t do that either.
@Shubert
I agree with you. Normally no lawyer would advise anybody to sign something they are not allowed to read. It seems to defy common sense.
While I certainly do support some sort of Human Rights complaint, I find this request to be done in a way that will not enlist many serious people. Simply put, the authors want everyone to ‘trust them’, but they demonstrate they don’t really trust the proposed complainants and therefore want to keep from them what they are signing until AFTER they are exposed.
Seems like a mighty strange way to try to get support.
Anarchy AWESOME Speech
Only a Canadian, Schubert, Richard,
I have passed your comments on to the author and others who worked on this Human Rights Complaint document. Your concerns are valid.
I am the go-between for people to sign if they wish — as “my name is out there”.
Although I’d love to be involved in promoting a human rights complaint, I share the concerns of Schubert 1975 and Only A Canadian.
My husband and I believed that we were no longer U.S. citizens when we became Canadian citizens in 1974, and after becoming aware of the retroactive imposition of unwanted citizenship we applied for our CLNs. We don’t want to do anything that would implicate us as “US Persons”.
If the complaint concerns the arbitrary imposition of unwanted US citizenship or nationality by the US on citizens and residents of other nations, similar to Britain’s prior to 1812, this egregious violation of the sovereignty of other nations could very well offend people of all nationalities, not just people who consider themselves to be US Persons. Since we can’t read this document, we’ll never know if it is a general complaint about the US claiming sovereignty over people of other nationalities, or if it is specific to a group which does not (no longer, or never did) include many of us.
I hope you get enough signatures from people who have been involved in creating it and therefore know the exact wording.
If i were to make a suggestion, there should potentially be two lawsuits, One for actual US persons, and one from every non-US person or entity who has to prove that they are not in order to not have their info provided as being US reportable, especially for entities.
The IRS estimates that the W-8BEN-E (IMY and EXP) will all take approximately 25 hours to complete (last section of the last page of the instructions indicates approximate time it wil take) so for any business operating in a non-US jurisdiction, with no US ties or operations applying for an account with a local FI, you will be forced to complete idiotic IRS forms to show that you are not under the thumbscrews of the IRS.
Your previous 30 minute account application now takes 25 hours and 30 minutes. (plus you may need to involve a tax lawyer to assist in the completion of said forms) The flip side is that if you are a US entity, you get to fill out a 1-page W9, which takes about 5 minutes to fill in, so you are being discriminated against and penalized in time and inconvenience by the IRS for not being US.
Every non-US person and entity who is inconvenienced by having to engage a US licenced tax attorney in order to prove that they are NOT U.S. potentially has a claim against the US Govt for lost productivity, extra costs, lost investment opportunity, etc. as well.
I am not sure if it’s possible but, wouldn’t sending a copy of the document to those willing to sign be doable?
This is an awesome effort that should garner world wide support. I don’t think one would need to be a U.S. person to object to diaspora taxation and as has been pointed up there is previous objection to those practices in governments and by the U.N. Not every person affected by this practice is a U.S. person at all. Some are families of U.S. persons and could sign. Some are accidentals who have no need to ever go to the U.S. Others have already renounced or relinquished.
At any rate thank you for getting this off the ground!
@Shubert, @Only A Canadian –
Ok, I can understand your hesitancy to sign something you haven’t seen.
But if it is going to an international human rights organization, maybe it should be read by them first before it gets anywhere out in the media/general public for us (or the US-govt attach-team) to comment. We don’t want it killed with too much active cross-lobbying before the organization to which the appeal is being made has had a chance to read and thoughtfully consider the appeal do we? Just my 3 cents…
@ Jim
Not being a business person, I was unaware of the issues you pointed out RE businesss taking so much time to fill in forms to prove “non-US-entity” status. Thanks for illuminating this point! This needs much more highlighting in the press and other media!!!!!
@LM
One of my biggest concerns is that since people would sign something that they have not read, then I believe it invalidates the complaint on its face. It seems to me the simple question that the complainants don’t know what they signed means that it is by definition a frivolous complaint. I would have every expectation that any Human Rights commissioner or judge would dismiss the complaint immediately as soon as that fact came to light.
@Jim
Proving negatives is always a difficult, if not IMPOSSIBLE task. Unfortunately for us, the Canadian and US governments don’t give a rat’s arse. Perhaps it will be FATCA’s unravelling.