Posted on May 28, 2014 by Tim Posted in Issues regarding US persons abroad 41 Comments http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4499209/paul-fatca Share this:TwitterFacebookEmailLike this:Like Loading...
It would appear to me that Menendez believes that US citizens only go abroad to cheat on taxes or serve in the military.
It’s unfortunate that Sen. Paul did not also hit the nail on the head and rebut the clear bias of those promoting the treaty that Americans are leaving the US to open up accounts overseas to avoid taxes, and challenge the assumption that all such Americans living overseas using Credit Suisse or other banks are tax cheats – and to mention the horribly unfair structure of citizenship based taxation. I don’t blame Sen Paul for not having this at his fingertips, but it sure would have been a great opportunity to challenge those biased assumptions of the McCain and others supporting FATCA.
Menendez says later that the treaty wouldn’t be a fishing expedition when he is presented with worries about privacy. Of course at the start of the video he is complaining that they only got the names of 238 American customers out of 22000. He sure seems to want to fish about in all those accounts to me. His whole point is that he thinks they are all tax cheats ready for the plucking.
Antigua and Barbuda won’t sign an IGA as the USA is strangling their economy and reneging on agreements. So far A@B have not signed anything and they won’t in my opinion as US – A@B relations are at rock bottom. The whole CARICOM is getting frustrated with sanctions by the USA. Watch this story and how the USSA alienates the whole Caribbean. This is way too funny to watch. Raise your hands countries of the world. How many of you want to tell the Americans to get stuffed?
Caribbean pressures US on Antigua gambling spat
Menendez takes it as self-evident that some “fair share” of the wealth of foreign countries should go to educating the next generation of homelander children and supporting the US military.
Nobody has to promote hatred of the US. They do it themselves.
Most likely- of the 22000 accounts held by US citizens at CS – 21000 are held by expats living in Switzerland.CS is a pretty popular bank in Switzerland.
And it continues to be shockingly unfair that CBT is a law.
On a related topic, the scourge of USCs residing in Switzerland, Kathryn Keneally, Asst Attorney General, Tax Division, announced her resignation this week after two years in office. News sources report that she is returning to her home in New York or returning to private practice. She is responsible for the disastrous Swiss-US Programme (sometimes called “OVDP for banks”) which failed to distinguish between Swiss-based private banks that actively encouraged tax evasion by Americans resident in the US and Swiss retail banks that passively allowed American citizens, resident in Switzerland, to have normal banking relationships with them. It is unknown whether she resigned voluntarily or was forced out.
Newspaper articles also mention that the June 30th deadline for Swiss banks to report their USC customers to the DOJ/ IRS may be extended, particularly for small and medium sized (retail) banks in Switzerland. This extension may also be related to severe capacity constraints in the accounting firms as many accidental, derived and emigrant USCs begin filing tax returns and FBARs for the first time and enter OVDP.
Informal speculation from visitor observations to the US Embassy in Berne suggest that as many as 10 expatriations per day are being processed there, meaning that the total could be 2,000 for 2014 (10 per day x 200 working days) at this one embassy.
Kathryn Keneally laid the ground work to make a lot of money as a lawyer defending the fish that her Swiss pogrom manages to net.
Obama’s War on Expats — renunciations soar!
Obama’s War on Immigrants too. Under the guise of wanting to pass immigration reform, he has deported the most immigrants (legal or not) as any other US presidents in history – not mentioning ruining lots of them in OVDP.
Yet, they expect most Hispanics to vote democrats, with the high anti-immigration GOP rhetoric.
All the discussion in the world will not justify the Marxist Income Tax.(Second chapter of the Communist Manifesto). The whole mess could be cleared up and the millions of hours and half a trillion dollars saved if we would all get behind the FairTax. It is a national sales tax which replaces all federal Taxes. It decriminalizes half of the U.S. population and all the expats. It is pure capitalism and puts Marxism where it belongs—on the dust heap of history.
There may be a hundred million people who directly or indirectly get their living sucking money from the rest of us, mucking around with the Marxist Idea of a progressive Income tax. It is an idea whose time has past. Let’s get back to capitalism which made the modern world and especially the USA.
Bob Menendez is an idiot. He wails on about these Americans who go abroad to avoid their ‘fair share’ of taxes when General Electric, a big supporter ( and some say lynchpin of power) owes 4 BILLION in back taxes for which they get a pass. IRS employees owe back taxes in the billions and I don’t see anyone going after them either. They are having their numbers increased by 16,000 and given arms to protect what may well be enforced confiscation. Meanwhile THEY party (‘like it’s 1999’) ON tax payers money. Obama sent OECD over 100 million for the development of the OECD GATCA program which they intend to implement in September of 2014. They say THIS is based on Residency taxation because every country on the planet, regardless of borders will be forced to provide information via their homebased tax collection agencies ( CRA anyone?) and send it to OECD for ‘processing’.
( and let me tell you, if you READ their proposal nothing will chill your bones more) FATCA is a walk in the park compared to what THEY have planned. It reads very much like the pirates chuckling about how to carve up the spoils.) The information that will be sent to the OECD will be all encompassing and all invasive for every individual and company , small and large on the planet ( the GE’s of this world exempted of course).
In addition, the 34 countries involved in this extortion scheme make up some of the most thuggish and dictatorial on earth.
Meanwhile, in the US the law abiding taxpayer is under withering attack from the Admin itself. HUGE tax increases coming on line due to Obamacare. HUGE fines and penalties heading their way as a US taxpayer resident in the US. For ‘US Persons’ as determined by IRS living abroad, they, too, will ‘pay their fair share’ with huge fines and penalties anywhere and everywhere they can find to penalize being a US citizen as they see the term. NO ONE else is allowed to determine the definition. It is clearly seen by reading both FATCA and the IGA that Canada signed that the aim IS fines and penalties. Blanket information gathering to comb through every bit of information they can find to lay the case for confiscation.
Rand Paul states in his remarks that he objects on 4th amendment grounds. This is very important, for it goes to the heart of the issue and is part of the lawsuits of both Senator Paul and lawyer James Bopp.
Probable Cause. YOU NEED A WARRANT and suspicion of wrong doing BEFORE getting the kind of information the IRS seeks and the OECD will soon be seeking.
PRIVACY rights should be paramount in any consideration along with some idea that a crime has been committed.
Senator Paul understands it and has a lawsuit against the NSA based on the same 4th amendment principles. Lawyer Bopp sees three issues he will present to the court: Privacy. Probable Cause. Harsh and undue punishment ( OVPD , FBAR, etc) wherein fines and penalties are so draconian as to destroy anyone’s chance at living life with anything at all save welfare and pushing an empty grocery cart.
After watching the vote yesterday in the Finance Committee it became clear to me that the conservative mps on the committee have not ever considered any of these issues. Their comments were strictly held to
“The US has the right to tax it’s citizens” and Keddy even went so far as to say that “no Canadian would have to report their financial information to the IRS via CRA or otherwise.” These conservative committee members were giving NDP, Liberal and Green entreaties and amendments short shrift.
There will be NO carve outs for Canadian Citizens and Permanent Residents in the IGA. NO amendments period. NOTHING. It will be all the way it was written and nothing else. And they summarily voted them ALL down. They were well thought out and presented by mp Cullen, Rankin and on the committee and presenter Elizabeth May.
NO to Canadian Citizen and Permanent Resident exemptions. NO to overrides of privacy and charter rights allowed to be removed. IGA WILL override existing privacy and Charter rights. Enerwein, when asked if the government had sought an opinion from legal scholars on on the consitutionality of this IGA override of existing Canadian laws and protections, he said they had and they did not have to and would NOT share what they were advised. I believe it was Rankin who remarked that it answered the question anyway, since if it was positive they would gladly share THAT.
So. Here we are. We stand at the cliff about to go over it.
Democrats made hay out of a video of a republican pushing granny in a wheelchair to the edge of the cliff and pushing her over it.
And yet it is these same democrats who are poised to push every granny, grandchild,great grandchild and any and all to come in the future not only over the cliff but into the pits of hell.
SO THEY CAN HAVE IT ALL.
The Canadian IGA is a part of the whole. The wording in it says it exactly so: “follows OECD guidelines”!
NOW WHAT? Where do we go from here? WHAT do we do?
Join in Rand Pauls class action lawsuit against the NSA spying on everyone’s cellphone on the planet? THAT is going to take years to plough it’s way through the courts.
Canada won’t help. Charter challenges take years and a great deal of money. In the meantime many lives will have been financially destroyed and any hope of leaving anything to children or grandchildren will be forever gone. Join with the litigation from James Bopp? Perhaps.
I will contribute to the Charter Challenge. I would contribute to the litigation if needed. Would join the class action lawsuit.
However, beyond the litigation by James Bopp, what do we in Canada actually DO about what happened in Finance Committe yesterday and how do we proceed to free ourselves from the oppression our own government intends to inflict?
We have ALL sent letters. Made phone calls. Signed petitions. Basically they have been ignored by the government. OUR OWN government.
THAT will be dealt with in the next election and any by elections that come up in the meantime. But what do we do for immediate relief except hope and pray James Bopp is as good as his reputation and that he acts very quickly?
WHERE are OUR Rand Pauls? OUR James Bopps? ( Joe Arvay notwithstanding) For that matter, OUR ISAAC BROCK?
We are ALL ISAAC BROCK now!
Is there a link to the video of the amendment submissions and the vote?
Link to the Finance Committee submission of amendments and the vote and who voted what and how:
Note Keddy and his ignorant comments. Note NDP MPs Cullen and Rankin on the committee and Elizabeth May’s submission and comments. Note the votes.
And there were liberal amendments put forward too, also voted down.
There are many good reasons for us not to want our private information sent to a foreign government, especially one as lawless as the US government has become, but this is a very good one all on it’s own:
From The Article:
As many as 227 million Americans may be compelled to disclose intimate details of their families and financial lives — including their Social Security numbers — in a new national database being assembled by two federal agencies.
“The Federal Housing Finance Agency and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau posted an April 16 Federal Register notice of an expansion of their joint National Mortgage Database Program to include personally identifiable information that reveals actual users, a reversal of previously stated policy”
This will cover “95 percent of all mortgages”. Now isn’t that just a dilly!
Violation of privacy rights and information on your mortgage too!
Anyone heard of MERS ? Another scam intended to take your house right out from underneath you. It is huge, global and dangerous.
Not to mention the Obamacare tax.
Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out later when I have the stomach for it.
Someone here or at MapleSandBox mentioned looking up Edward Karr on You Tube.
I did. A couple of videos with Mr. Edward Karr. This one just one week ago:
He mentions the constitutional challenge Jim Bopp is undertaking, which he is very excited about, and also discusses chance of winning and time lines for Constitutional challenges. I suspect that time line would be the same for us in Canada.
@FuriousAC, thanks for that youtube link. You cheered me up.
Someone shoudl make it a front page item here at IBS.
I feel what you are feeling. I think that seeing that all of this is unconstitutional and goes against the basic laws of many many nations- America will have to be the first place where it is struck down for the rest to get off the hook. So yeah – Rand Paul and Republicans Overseas with Bopp. It has to heal from the inside.
Yes, they need to fix it for sure. However, WE need to fix what happened in the Finance Committee meeting and vote yesterday!
I am so enraged by what I saw and heard.
The first thing that made me want to SLAP Keddy was his response to Murray Rankin, who extolled on the wisdom of pulling out the IGA from Bill C-31 for proper scrutiny and explaining just why that is and making clear if that wasn’t going to work, then the amendments to the IGA they were all proposing were to be taken under serious consideration . He presented the case for removing Canadian Citizen and Permanent Residents from the language for the definition of ‘US Person’ ( as designated by the IRS, now mind) AND the proposal to ensure that the IGA does not override existing privacy laws and Charter rights.
Mr. Keddy made the statement that to carve out Canadian Citizens and Permanent Residents would not be acceptable to the IRS because it is their law and their language and they have the right to tax Americans wherever they are. He also made the statement that NO Canadian citizen would have to pay the IRS. And he could not possibly understand why these boob NDPers and Libers did not GET that. What an arrogant A$$!
And ignorant as well. For anyone who has an American in their family they know that the Canadians financial information is subject to IRS scrutiny and fines and penalties if they come under their radar. Never mind taxes. Taxes are paid. Taxes are NOT the issue. Information that will enable this criminal organization to levy fines and penalties and fleece honest and decent people of their life savings and the financial future of their family for generations to come. Mr. Keddy , if I could have reached through the computer screen , would have had his face slapped HARD for his remarks and his dismissive and offensive demeanor.
And we have been Conservative for YEARS. We expected better. We trusted.
Then there was Mr. Enerwein ( I want to say Weenie, because that is what he is to me) He was asked by NDP MP Cullen if the IGA was considered a ‘treaty’ . He said he did think it was a treaty.
So, the IGA is a treaty. A treaty that overrides the existing country to country treaty as well as Canada’s laws and that IGA signed by Canada with IRS is NOT legal for IRS is not a legal signing authority. HMM.
I rather liked that video of Edward Karr too as well as the information, which was very encouraging. Looks like it will take awhile, 2 years or more, but somehow we have to get rid of this evil.
Charter challenge in Canada is forthcoming , too.
Being a parliamentary idiot….. could the NDP call for a no-confidence vote against Mr Harper? Even if it wouldn’t have a chance of succeeding might it at least expose how the Liberal MPs would vote? (This could be an election tactic for the NDP against both parties). I don’t know, just thinkin’!
Seems like the politician never heard of “deep pockets”. I heard of the case of some divorced guy with a green card who lived in Europe and who, years back, refused to pay the penalty. So the IRS went hunting. They even tried to get the money out of his divorced american wife- but then that didn’t work. They were looking for those deep pockets- whoever they could get the money out of in a “related” way to the person. So I am wondering if America won’t do like Eritrea and just look for some relatives they can get the money from (or threaten in other ways to get somebody in another country to pay up?) I`m thinking once the information is handed over- then they will look for ways to enforce/collect. So thats a real shame. I am certainly not believing that this is only about information. This is about the money to collect for their time and efforts. The canadian government is trivialising this important issue for obvious reasons.