The Member of Parliament for Timmins/James Bay reveals some of the unethical aspects of FATCA legislation in the omnibus budget bill. He misses a number of points regarding native treaty rights, French language rights, Article 8 and 15 Charter violations, and extraordinary rendition of financial information to the United States. But all in all it is not a bad speech. The criticism of FATCA begins at 2:00 (mins):
“Citizenship is something which is sacred.” Indeed.
Excellent speech and covers so much. Charlie is a defender of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It was good to see that all the opposition voted no
This really made my day, yesterday. I was so grateful to see such outspoken remarks. I loved that he brought examples of the harm being done to individuals. He actually represented them and their concerns in full. Really a great record on this issue of someone willing to stand up and call out this government on what is going on with FATCA. It made those going along and making excuses for FATCA look exactly as they should.
great speech and we all support the guy. but may i ask again to what end? the tories can and will stuff fatca down the throats of everyone. are there are parliamentary tactics to stop them?
@cindy63, The violation of Charter Rights creates a tenuous legal situation for the government of Canada, in my view. When the legal challenges win, these kinds of evidence prove the government’s position is egregious and willful. This will greatly help people seeking damage from the government. Remember the decision Maher Arar to Syria, and the Canadian government’s willful and egregious collusion with US authorties to have him sent to Syria? That cost the government 10 million to settle. Any real damages to Canadian citizens whose banking information gets sent to the IRS will be actionable, and these kinds of testimony will be precious in establishing the willful and egregious behaviour of the Harper government (as also opinions from Peter Hogg and the Isaac Brock Society, etc.)
Great comments by the MP, but sadly only to an empty house. The courts are the only real hope to strike down the IGA and get FATCA as a stand along bill to be properly debated.
However a big fund will be needed to lobby MPs. I hope it doesn’t end up being a case of if you have the same actors you get the same play.
I think that the other point is that once the Tories are out, one of the other parties will be in power, and then we can stick these kinds of speeches back in their faces when they obfuscate on the IGA.
I hear a lot about the fact that we are all ok if we never go to the US. I have a problem with that idea. The Canadian government offers NO PROTECTION from the IRS to all of us. It is a simple statement to say “we will not collect any fines, penalties or taxes for the IRS”. Well, great for YOU. What about us? We will be pursued by the IRS and eventually financially destroyed by them through our banks who are mostly US. Once fines are levied, we have no idea what the next steps of prosecution will be. Nobody seems to want to let us know what the risks are. If the implementation of Fatca by our coward government is any indication of how they will “protect” us from IRS prosecutions, we are doomed. The time is NOW to act and give Charlie Angus and all others who will look at this with a “common sense” approach, all the help we can give. The IRS WILL get you one way or the other. Don’t think for one second Canada will protect you! Just look at their track record so far……….
@NativeCanadian, It bugs me too when I hear that comment. The CRA cannot even keep hackers out of our private financial data. Imagine what will happen when that data crosses the border and ends up god knows where.
And of course, who can believe the current government will NOT allow USA to collect on a penalty bonanza which obviously after all this FATCA headache, USA is going to WANT to collect on.
@NativeCanadian,
I really wish there was some way to get a very large crowd together for a very noisy protest….something, anything to get this out there in a big way and to get the point across that this is NOT ABOUT AMERICANS LIVING IN Canada who are slightly disadvantaged by having their financial details sent back to the homeland. THIS IS ABOUT AN AFFRONT TO THE RIGHTS OF CANADIANS LIVING IN CANADA, many who have little if any ties with USA and who owe USA big fat NOTHING.
Another thing that bugs me, is that my own MP will not engage with me on a discussion about FATCA other than to repeat the party line, yet I was to get an empathetic response from Charlie Angus, He obviously listened and included the stories of people I presented as examples of FATCA victims in his speech yesterday. Why won’t my own MP listen as well? Is it because he is a jerk or because he is a Conservative? Or both?
I posted a link to Charlie Angus’s book “Unlikely Radicals – The Adams Mine Dump War” in another thread which is likely buried in comments now, so will repost it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=133R4jUiXQ4 Some of us might find it as inspiration for this fight that is far from over.
Rabble Review of “Unlikely Radicals” by Charlie Angus
http://rabble.ca/books/reviews/2014/02/unlikely-radicals-exposes-toxic-adams-mine-dump-war
@Disgusted, I love the cover picture. It reminds me of some of the small Brocker protests. Except I think we looked a tad more polished…lol.
Wonderful!
KUDOS and RIGHT ON!!!!! Thanks of bringing this to all at IBS
Fabulous! Charlie Angus for Prime Minister!
@Don
No house is empty thanks to the ‘internets’!
@Petros
Canadians will be spending their after tax dollars on challenging a taxpayer funded government that will use taxpayer’s money to make settlements with taxpayers. Ugh!
There are far better legal eagles on this board than me and I think someone like Charlie Angus could be prodded to take up another cause that would either back the conservatives in a corner again or might provide the backdoor solution to the FATCA IGA.
PART VIII of The Citizenship Act, “Status of Persons in Canada” is amended by adding in subsection 32 (3) as follows;
32 (3) Every person who is a Citizen of Canada, who has two or more nationalities shall be regarded solely as a Canadian Citizen for all public and private matters.
What would this do? It would clear the air in line with the 12 April 1930 Hague Convention. A Canadian in Canada is solely Canadian and if asked about their Citizenship could rightly only give a single answer, they are Canadian. This would neuter FATCA for Canadians, other than avoiding the likely illegal place of birth question.
There is also the possibility of another interesting amendment and that would be for the Citizenship Act to be amended to permit the renouncing of another countries citizenship. While such a renunciation might not be recognized by the other country, the Citizenship Act would fully recognize the renunciation in Canada.
@NativeCanadian:
A long time ago it was revealed that a covert US agency was experimenting with patients in a hospital in Canada. Experimenting on their minds, illegally and dangerously. Known about by the Canadian government and covered up. When it was revealed , of course, it was denied by both governments. The mental and emotional damage had long since been done. The innocent ruined forever.
During Clinton’s administration there was the ‘blood scandal’. Wherein it was discovered that blood was being taken from criminals in the penal system in Arkansas. Criminals being paid for every ‘donation’. Blood then sent to Connaught Labs in Canada ( owned by Chretien) for ‘processing’. Turns out they had no controls and many aids patients in the penal system were ‘contributing’. It was a hushed up scandal and by the time everybody knew about it, many had contracted aids and died. No body has been charged or gone to jail and Clinton and Chretien continue to enjoy good reputations to this day.
People who know things about things over the years just disappear and the corruption continues throughout governments around the world.
As far as banking corruption is concerned it is clear what is planned and it is also clear that decisions about how this will work has been decided by other than sovereign governments who owe their constituents answers to questions. That sovereign governments adhere to these instructions tells us that they are protecting the banking and other interests and NOT the sovereign citizens they are supposed to serve. These decisions are made out of our eyes and ears but WITH taxpayer money at the G8 ( now 7) and the G20 and the OECD group of 34. These decisions are ongoing and relentless and they intend to implement them regardless of what free people in countries around the world want , need or demand.
This morning it is reported that in Cyprus, one full year after the ‘bail in’ where they took deposits from customers ( stole) they are still under ‘capital controls’. More egregious is the MF Global scandal wherein customers money completely disappeared to the tune of billions and the victims numbered over 600,000. The result? Corzine just shrugged his shoulders and said he did not know where the billions went. And got away with that.
When we have a betrayal on this scale a majority Conservative government in Canada pales in comparison to the scale of corruption around the world but it indicates: They intend to do it and they do not intend to stop until they have every last dime from every person on this planet. The opposition in Parliament cannot stop this. What can and who can? Whence cometh our help?
This is from UK guidance on the Master Nationality Rule;
“Commonly known as the “Master Nationality Rule”, the practical effect of this Article is that where a person is a national of, for example, two States (A and B), and is in the territory of State A, then State B has no right to claim that person as its national or to intervene on that person’s behalf.”
To put it in blunt terms of FATCA;
Commonly known as the “Master Nationality Rule”, the practical effect of this Article is that where a person is a national of Canada and the USA and is in the territory of Canada, then the USA has no right to claim that person as its national or to intervene on that person’s behalf.
So under commonly accepted international law, the USA has “no right” to claim any of you as its national whilst you are in the territory of Canada and surely your government should be protecting you from the USA.
So maybe the way to fight on in addition to the Charter Challenge is keep the heat in the politicians to amend the Citizenship Act to make it clear there is only one class of Canadian Citizens.
But again US Citizens that are resident still get tossed under the bus.
HOLDER SNAPS!!! Pray that the US govt crumbles soon
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/04/a-fed-up-eric-holder-goes-after-congress-unprecedented-unwarranted-ugly-and-divisive/
Re: “Citizenship is something sacred.” I agree, Charlie.
And I believe that there should be a CLAIM to US (or any other citizenship), never an automatic “gifting” of one. The US believes a US citizenship is sacred – and for those not entrapped into it, with no way out, it may be. I renounced my US citizenship (in fact was told decades ago I was losing it by becoming a Canadian citizen) as it was my CHOICE to become a Canadian citizen and that is what is sacred to me.
My son and others like him with a ‘mental incapacity’ are entrapped into an extraneous US citizenship with no way out, for any amount of money paid to any US tax or immigration / nationality professional. My son, born in Canada, raised in Canada, never registered with the US, never had any benefit from the US, was automatically “gifted” his US citizenship by his in Canada birth to two US citizens. Canada is where my son has lived all of his 40 years. The US citizenship is extraneous. His family lives in Canada; it is his family and the Canadian and provincial governments of Canada who have provided his supports — not the USA.
I hired a Washington, DC nationality / immigration lawyer to confirm my son’s US status and give possibilities for his renunciation. Result was that my children were US citizens from the moment of their births. And, straight from the US Department of State:
Does it not make more sense that a second US (or any other) citizenship be opted into, when there are facts that make that a possibility? With an opt-out only (as is now the case), those with a ‘mental incapacity’ (even age-related dementia) are entrapped as their parents, their guardians or their trustees cannot renounce US citizenship on their behalf, even with a court order.
I know that we can`t expect any help from our Conservative government, but I am feeling a bit better today. I am a Canadian business owner with an accidental American spouse. I have always supported the Conservatives, occasionally with donations. I made a pledge a while back, after a phone solicitation, but did not send it in. A representative from the party called me to ask where my donation was, and I happily told her she wasn`t getting one, not now , or ever for that matter. She asked why and I told her it was because of the government`s position on FATCA. I had to spell it for her, but she assured me she would pass the info on .
Excellent speech! I completely agree with Charlie Angus. It is the TRUE about this government, they are puppets and marionettes of the US, scare to protect us, especially Harper. If they can’t protect us leave. Jean Chrétien had the guts and the talent to govern and make Canada a respectable country, now this respect is gone. No country wants Canada anymore for being allied to the US. We, the citizens, should be respected and protected. This government lives from our taxes; they were elected by us, the citizens. From our votes now they betray us. There are many other markets to deal with, other than the US that is already in ruins, etc. This government is destroying Canada joining the US that is already done. Why and how much time do we have before we became like the US in debts and poor, like underdevelopment countries. Not to be proud of our work and efforts from centuries and recognitions we use to have anymore of being a fair country to help and support with our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and helping the countries in war not joining the US aggressor etc.. Everything with this government is completely backwards.
USG says “rules schmules”!
Yay Rob! That must have felt good. : )