I am posting this thread on behalf of Charl who is wondering if anyone would be interested in protesting at the US consulates. Her mission is to educate the public, and get much needed media attention.
Charl says:
Most Canadians fortunate enough not to have a US branding, if they’ve even heard of FATCA amd FBAR, likely think it does not apply to them. They don’t readily see that legislation to implement a FATCA IGA will allow the US government to rob Canada of a significant portion of its assets, and that the Canadian government is actually paying to allow the US to steal from the tax base of Canada.
We need to expose the real numbers of dollars that the US is attempting to extract from Canadians. For example, there are estimated to be over one million Canadians with ‘clinging US nationality’ (WhiteKat loves this term, but forgets who came up with it). Even if only half of these unfortunate Canadians are exposed, and each has an average of 3 accounts never previously revealed to the USA on FBARs, the penalties owed would be at minimum $90 billion dollars (3 accounts * $10K per account * 6 years * 500,000 Canadians). In addition to this siphoning off of wholly Canadian earned, already taxed in Canada savings, Canadian tax payers will be on the hook for the welfare support that will be required by financially devastated Canadians, deemed ‘US persons’ and thus US taxpayers by the USA. In addition, the Canadian banks are spending billions to become FATCA compliant; guess who will be paying the banks’ FATCA compliance costs?
I am thinking that a good venue for a public protest would be to hold simultaneous protests at all US consulates in Canada. If we can get large numbers of angry Canadians showing up at all US consulates on the same day to make a huge noise, perhaps we can get some major attention from Canadian media. Although it would be nice to have the consulates themselves hear us, that is secondary in my opinion. For some reason, despite many attempts by concerned Canadians, regarding the seriousness of this issue, the Canadian press is not picking up on this US attack on Canada to any major degree. I fear that most of our MPs do not understand the unintended fallout of the ‘wonderful’ deal our government has made with the devil, once it has exposed to the IRS, those Canadians whose dominant nationality is Canadian, but who USA claims as its own, in USA’s immoral quest to impose a form of taxation that drastically conflicts with internationally accepted norms.
For best effect, we should be BIG and LOUD, and do what is necessary to get lots of attention. Rally your friends, families, and neighbours to join us. Our government may be terrified of the US, but we little folk, afraid as we may be, realize what is at stake to ALL Canadians, and are brave enough to come out and push back at the bully to our south.
The world is watching to see how Canada will react to FATCA, as Canada has the most IRS targeted, so-called ‘US persons’ in the world. As such, our country has a moral obligation to be a world leader and to give other countries the courage to stand up to the US’s bullying tactics and extra-territorial overreach. Imagine all countries saying ‘NO’, if we can show them the way.
If you all think this is a good idea, we would have to choose a date, advertise the event, devise/modify and print out FATCA educational materials (update the FATCA fact sheet), create signs, see if other groups (perhaps those with protesting experience) will join us, etc. I have a few ideas, but need more if we have any possibility of doing this.
What do my fellow Brockers think?
I don’t know of any way that a person who is not an administrator here can, Canadian Girl. But, if you have one you’d like posted, put a comment up and I or someone else can stick the image you want into it. Right now though, I’m off for a long walk with the dog — another important therapy as we’re talking about that need!
@northernstar, hope you can attend the event coming up http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/11/traumatized-by-the-irs-and-us-reaching-into-canada-revisited/ . You will be in very good company – of others who understand.
Don’t do anything in sudden reaction. You will be fine. You are in a better situation than many. Don’t make economic decisions based on emotions – particularly now.
US_Person_Foreigner,
I agree with you. Protesting at the consulates spreads us too thin and as Calgary411 points out some of the consulates – like ours in Calgary – are so hidden that no one would have any idea that they were there unless they needed to make use of it and even then, it’s damned hard to identify without a google map.
Besides, it is the Canadian govt that capitulated and only the Canadian govt can rectify this. Why are we not picketing them?
Northernstar, I am sorry to hear that you are struggling so with the FATCA news. I confess to not being overly shocked and I have my little worries about accessing the US, existing financial things stuck down there and about my daughter who is still too young to renounce. However, I am choosing not to be consumed b/c theses are simply details that will work out one way or another and I will deal accordingly. Someday – hopefully by summer – I will be just a Canadian and if this means I forfeit the right to visit down South or lose my retirement funds down there b/c I can’t bank “internationally” anymore then so be it. Making myself crazy won’t change things that essentially outside my ability to control anyway. I will manage that which I can and let the rest go. Lately I am enamoured of the idea of retiring to Whitehorse. Yes, too close to Alaska perhaps but still. Far north. Anyway, chin up! You are going to be okay.
I stumbled across this on Facebook which helped my perspective on things. I’ve also been experiencing coping problems, to the point that I became physically ill with vertigo. I now realize that in order to keep myself physically well I must remain mentally balanced in response to what is one of the biggest challenges I’ve ever had to face.
At the risk of coming across as airy-fairy, here is the quote:
An ageing master grew tired of his apprentice’s complaints. One morning, he sent him to get some salt. When the apprentice returned, the master told him to mix a handful of salt in a glass of water and then drink it.
“How does it taste?” the master asked.
“Bitter,” said the apprentice.
The master chuckled and then asked the young man to take the same handful of salt and put it in the lake. The two walked in silence to the nearby lake and once the apprentice swirled his handful of salt in the water, the old man said, “Now drink from the lake.”
As the water dripped down the young man’s chin, the master asked, “How does it taste?”
“Fresh,” remarked the apprentice.
“Do you taste the salt?” asked the master.
“No,” said the young man. At this the master sat beside this serious young man, and explained softly,
“The pain of life is pure salt; no more, no less. The amount of pain in life remains exactly the same. However, the amount of bitterness we taste depends on the container we put the pain in. So when you are in pain, the only thing you can do is to enlarge your sense of things. Stop being a glass. Become a lake.”
~ Meditation Masters
@bubblebustin
I saw that on facebook too. It is true but the feelings are very overwhelming. It is better when you have people around you physically to give you support. without that , nothing changes. even with airy fairy reading. I have been in the meditation new age for years. There are days when it does not do anything to make feelings better.
@northernstar
The problem with the figures of +1 million dollars.. nobody thinks they have that figure in their lives… surprise… u do… when this situation reared its ugly head… I sat down & did a rough estimate… of everything I had… figure is more… think about that… the house u bought yrs ago… is now worth loads more… that adds to the figure… if u sit down… just give a rough estimate of what u own & if u sold or cashed out everything now…. u will be surprised… I was… never even thought of that figure… ever little amt… adds up fast
I could quite possibly be TOTALLY wrong (happens often) but I just keep thinking about some headline someplace. This being ignored by the press and how it effects all Canadians just sticks in my craw. 90 billion out of the Canadian economy is a BIG deal for everyone. (I would bet, John Richardson has an even larger amount given the results of PFIC’s etc.). I never thought the consulate staff would care, that folks walking/driving by would care. Just a presence out there to let the government know we are NOT going quietly into the night and with maybe some press we would be slowly getting the message out. Maybe doing the consulates doesn’t really matter. Just one day that we all do the same thing across the country. Whatever will garner SOME attention. Maybe Dundas Square in Toronto, at the drumming sessions in Montreal, where there are lots of folks congregating. I plan on emailing all on my contact list with my FATCA belly aching and asking them to email all of theirs. That there would even be a protest and potentially a charter challenge shows we are serious and concerned enough to do something/anything. I can’t just sit and moan and express myself to other people that already “get it”. I have emailed every person Canadian and American that I believe has a national voice, US congress members, MPs I have gotten absolutely zip responses. I would hope, though probably I am just naive, that slowly we can get the message out. Big and Loud and with some of the fun “catchy” ideas others have come up with might get us an ounce of attention. The nihilistic argument might be valid, but boy I don’t want to live in that world. I will try and hold onto my naive faith that the arc of history bends toward justice. But it is an arc and at some point we have to start progressing on that arc. I totally agree that our votes, banking choices, renunciations and where we holiday will eventually turn this around (maybe) but a clear point about what the Conservatives and the IRS are doing, I think, must be made. Slow and steady, calmly assertive….how I control my pack of King Shepherds.
@northernstar, some of us are natural worriers while others like my husband the accidental American never worry about anything.
I have suffered from anxiety attacks my whole life. I just need a reason to have an attack, any reason will do. I think being married to someone who is the exact opposite of me actually does help most of the time. When I’m freaking out I look at how calm he is and think things can’t be that bad if he’s so mellow.
The worst time for an attack for me is early in the morning when I’m just waking up. When my brain starts going into overdrive I try to make a list of all the positive things in my life to push down all the negative thoughts.
Maybe what we need to do is start a Gratitude thread where we share the things we are grateful for in our lives no matter how small they might seem. Maybe calgary411 or somebody else who can post new threads could do that for us. Negativity is contagious but so is positivity.
My gratitude list goes like this:
1) My husband has a great job which means I don’t have to go out and get a job even when my business is not doing well. I can ride out the storm.
2) My son is working and contributing to the family’s finances which also helps. He rarely drinks, doesn’t do drugs, or hang out with skanky girls. He’s a good boy and I thank God for that.
3) We live in a beautiful large home in a small town which is something I always wanted.
4) I’m still young enough to make a big splash in the business world before I retire.
5) Sooner or later the Americans will come to their senses and even if they don’t we’ll find a way to deal with this mess. My son and I are not Americans so we’ll just rearrange our finances.
From what you’ve posted about your life story, there’s obviously alot of pain already there and this FATCA thing has aggravated your already fragile state. I so wish you weren’t so far away or I’d come over and give you a hug whenever you needed it.
Petros you can give my email address to northernstar and if she wants I can call her on the phone to offer emotional support whenever she needs it.
@ Northern Star; I sympathize with what you are going through. I reached a point a couple of years back were I was descending into mental illness because of this. I couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep and was loosing touch with reality. In order to find my way out of my madness I decided to cut myself off of all media. I turned off the radio,the TV and stopped reading the newspaper. I began scraping the popcorn ceilings in my home. I have FATCA to thank for my smooth ceilings and freshly painted home. Now when my I feel overwhelmed I grab a pair of 5lb. weights and run up and down the stairs untill the endorphins kick in and I feel better. I also find yoga and meditation to help. You are stronger than you know.
@all If we are changing our minds about protesting at the American Consulates perhaps we should turn our attention to Ottawa. I’m thinking a gathering located in view of Harper’s office where we could engage in public “mooning.”
Petros, give northernstar my gmail address not the new one. That way I can put her in my white list so she doesn’t get filtered out.
@omgheesstillanamerican
Thank you so much for your support . I know there are many things to be grateful for. I have tried that too, gratitude list.
charlie Angus’ response to my email for help has put me in this dump.
BUT .
I am so grateful for ALL you Brockers who are giving me kind and encouraging words. Tomorrow is a new day.
@Disgusted.
I went through years of psychologist treatment, prozac because of the deaths of my son and husband. I got off the prozac and treatments in 2006. Don’t think I want to do that now. It may hinder me if I wish to emigrate to England. I don’t think I can as an American person but if my CLN comes in I am thinking of going there.
@All… As Charlie Angus said.. FATCA signing is Harper government’s baby. We need to protest him.
He is the one who calls the Canadian government , the Harper government.. He owns it.
It’s funny when I started seeing a psychiatrist several years ago and I mentioned FATCA, he didn’t say what’s that? He already knew what it was and why I might be anxious about it. He said alot of people in the medical profession in Canada have a FATCA problem.
Shortly after I mentioned FATCA during my first appointment he pulled out his prescription pad and wrote me 8 months worth of Ativan refills. I said my family doctor is not going to keep giving me Ativan refills and he said don’t worry you’re going to have to keep coming back to see me and I’ll give you the refills.
Psychiatrists are very hard to get an appointment with in Canada. You have to be really desperate to convince one they should see you. The one I have has alot of experience and seems very tuned in to my emotional state.
Add another item to the tally of the unnecessary costs that Canadian taxpayers will be bearing due to US CBT and FATCA extortion – the cost of medical, psychological, economic and social supports for those directly and indirectly affected.
When the US chose to impose FATCA by threat of extortionate sanctions on Canada and the rest of the world, it launched an economic and social attack on Canadian individuals, families and our society and economy
The Canadian MPs who support that are traitors and collaborators complicit in that attack. That is what I would put on a sign if I were to protest at the consulate and in front of MP offices and Parliament.
Stephen Harper has not yet been made to account for the FATCA capitulation. Believe me, It wouldn’t have happened without the bankster-besotted, America-adulated Harper advocating for it. As I’ve said before, he is a globalist. FATCA is right up his NAFTA/WTO/TPP/NAU alley, leading right to his NWO promised land. When do you ever hear Harper giving passionate speeches about Canadian sovereignty? Lately he’s taken to singing badly to war criminal foreign leaders instead. It’s Harper we should be directing our protests towards. Harper is so busy meddling in the foreign affairs of far-off countries and finagling Canada into that terrible TPP that he can’t be bothered to even mention FATCA. Jim Flaherty is taking the FATCA heat and has regressed into question dodging but it’s Harper who needs to be nailed for allowing FATCA into Canada. He has an Ottawa location and a Calgary location and I’d like to see protests outside both. I’d like to see someone flip him the bird the next time he flips a pancake at a Stampede breakfast too.
Em, I agree. I’ll be on the look-out, but I think any Stampede pancake flippin’ from Mr. Harper will be at closed corporate pancake events, not those open to the general public.
I just attended the session in Montréal, John Richardson stated what should be obvious to all, FATCA and US CBT is about theft of Canadian assets and capital, and an assault on our tax-base. US siphoning off our economy reduces the ability to pay for social programs in Canada. We should be at every protest against:
income equality, conditions on native reserves, cuts in education funding and so forth. FATCA must be linked to social issues because it because FATCA affects all Canadians
It is stressful to know what the FATCA can do to unwitting people overseas. I am fortunate perhaps in that I survived a life-threatening cancer a few years back, so when I get stressed by the nastiness of U.S. taxation policy I think that no matter what happens, it can’t kill me and, unlike surviving cancer, getting the policy changed isn’t mainly a matter of luck. We can and do work together to push back against the craziness of unrestricted citizenship-based taxation (even of people with no real ties to the country). The manure is soon going to hit the fan big time. More people are becoming aware of FATCA all the time and once it comes into effect the push back will be very strong because the policies are so ludicrous.
@Innocente,
Another interesting wealth transfer calculation, especially since it also comes to a similar total! FYI, thank Charl (not me) for her original formula. I was just the secretary for her post.
@ northernstar
Your posts here are valued and much appreciated.
Patricia is right. You do not learn effective street protest through do-it-yourself fantasizing. Make connections and learn from others (especially those who have been arrested). In Canada, it takes a lot to get arrested, a great deal more to get charged, and a great deal more than that to get convicted.
Tim is right. Persistent obnoxious aggravation can be highly effective. But you need to understand what you are doing, why you are doing it, how to do it, and that it is not “personal.” It is a tactic, with a message.
Schubert is bureaucratic. He probably thinks MLK should have lawyered away behind the scenes and stayed out of that street stuff while cities were going up in flames. He will sometimes float a sheet of paper towards an authority figure.
Susan is scary naive. There is nothing special about the sidewalk in front of a US consulate in Canada. It’s an expanse of public concrete waiting to become a stage. All who think they need a permit to protest should go hide in a closet and wait for the knock at the door that will summon them to step up into the cattle car.
The demographic here is not promising. But Charl, you rock … even if you rock mostly alone, and don’t want to do it in a chair.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny decided to drop in at the Annual St Patrick Day’s Breakfast in South Boston today after attending talks in DC about various issues including help undocumented Irish in the US for immigration reform which is great.
However, what he didn’t mention is if they because US Citizens or hold green cards, and then move back to Ireland, then they fall into the FATCA trap with Irish banks going on the witch hunt for the ‘US Person,’ to report back to the IRS.
One little important fact that was not disclosed today.
http://www.necn.com/03/16/14/Irish-PM-Our-links-with-Boston-are-perso/landing_politics.html?blockID=863921&feedID=11106
Everyone in IBS wants the politicians to get real with this issue rather than hide the dirty little secret in the hope the opposition disappears eventually.
If all one million Canadians purported to be owned by the USA, actually KNEW what was coming down the pipeline with FATCA, we should, in theory have no problem drumming up a 1000 or two for a protest. My hunch is that the vast majority STILL do not have a clue, although slowly, but steadily (thanks to so many of you who keep working diligantly to spread the message) our numbers are increasing. At some point (after Canada day most likely), the proverbial shit is really going to hit the fan.
I would like to suggest that any lurkers out there who read Brock regularly, and are considering joining a public protest to PLEASE LET YOUR FEELINGS BE KNOWN HERE so that we can get a better idea of the amount of support for such activism. It won’t happen if we don’t think enough people are out there listening. We don’t know you are there, if you don’t tell us.
And if you are feeling frightened, try not to let that fear get in the way of joining us in our attempts at fighting the good fight. Our strength is in our numbers, not just in the justness of our cause.
Rather than waste time and money and run the risk of being filmed, each of you take 3 or 400.00 and run these ads
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/08/brock-advertisement-in-riding-of-kerry-lynn-findlay-minister-of-national-revenue/
Instead of spreading ourselves too thin pick one city and blitz it with these. This is a big country. Goliath was huge. David brought him down with a targeted slingshot rock aimed at his knee if I recall, so even if you don’t live in Vancouver, Victoria, that is where the battle should focus for these ads because the rep who approved the ads also ca get them into all regional papers in the organization.
I was so disappointed over the constant whinging here and the total LACK OF SUPPORT for this ad campaign. I was told that the ads had a very big effect on MP Findlay because of the huge amount of “US” constituents with money in her riding. In case no one knows this by now Findlay is the Revenue Minister who approved the IGA and for those who keep saying that we should picket Harper, why don’t you keep up the pressure in BC, Tsawwassen Delta Richmond Ladner by contributing to these EFFECTIVE ads in the regions local newspapers.
All the information is on that link and the rep promised anonymity. You reach a hundred times more people with ads like this than a noisy protest in a busy noisy city. So call Bob and pick a paper and run the ad as often as possible as part of our US persons roundup, yes round em up and bring em here.
Thanks for this, Chears. Are there any affiliates in other provinces where this ad could as well be run, same basis?
@ WhiteKat
I tried quite awhile ago to invite people to at least come out and gives us a “Hi I’m here!” but it didn’t work all that well. As time goes by and awareness spreads perhaps we can try again. It took some nudging before I became such a blithering Brocker but the degree of the injustice, my curiosity and my desire to find solutions overcame all my reticence. I thought consulate protests were a good idea a couple of years ago but I’m still pondering where and how we can best utilize what still seem to be a limited supply of PCUs (Protest Credit Units). I don’t want anyone having to do a solo protest like calgary411 gallantly did this past winter.