I am posting this thread on behalf of Charl who is wondering if anyone would be interested in protesting at the US consulates. Her mission is to educate the public, and get much needed media attention.
Charl says:
Most Canadians fortunate enough not to have a US branding, if they’ve even heard of FATCA amd FBAR, likely think it does not apply to them. They don’t readily see that legislation to implement a FATCA IGA will allow the US government to rob Canada of a significant portion of its assets, and that the Canadian government is actually paying to allow the US to steal from the tax base of Canada.
We need to expose the real numbers of dollars that the US is attempting to extract from Canadians. For example, there are estimated to be over one million Canadians with ‘clinging US nationality’ (WhiteKat loves this term, but forgets who came up with it). Even if only half of these unfortunate Canadians are exposed, and each has an average of 3 accounts never previously revealed to the USA on FBARs, the penalties owed would be at minimum $90 billion dollars (3 accounts * $10K per account * 6 years * 500,000 Canadians). In addition to this siphoning off of wholly Canadian earned, already taxed in Canada savings, Canadian tax payers will be on the hook for the welfare support that will be required by financially devastated Canadians, deemed ‘US persons’ and thus US taxpayers by the USA. In addition, the Canadian banks are spending billions to become FATCA compliant; guess who will be paying the banks’ FATCA compliance costs?
I am thinking that a good venue for a public protest would be to hold simultaneous protests at all US consulates in Canada. If we can get large numbers of angry Canadians showing up at all US consulates on the same day to make a huge noise, perhaps we can get some major attention from Canadian media. Although it would be nice to have the consulates themselves hear us, that is secondary in my opinion. For some reason, despite many attempts by concerned Canadians, regarding the seriousness of this issue, the Canadian press is not picking up on this US attack on Canada to any major degree. I fear that most of our MPs do not understand the unintended fallout of the ‘wonderful’ deal our government has made with the devil, once it has exposed to the IRS, those Canadians whose dominant nationality is Canadian, but who USA claims as its own, in USA’s immoral quest to impose a form of taxation that drastically conflicts with internationally accepted norms.
For best effect, we should be BIG and LOUD, and do what is necessary to get lots of attention. Rally your friends, families, and neighbours to join us. Our government may be terrified of the US, but we little folk, afraid as we may be, realize what is at stake to ALL Canadians, and are brave enough to come out and push back at the bully to our south.
The world is watching to see how Canada will react to FATCA, as Canada has the most IRS targeted, so-called ‘US persons’ in the world. As such, our country has a moral obligation to be a world leader and to give other countries the courage to stand up to the US’s bullying tactics and extra-territorial overreach. Imagine all countries saying ‘NO’, if we can show them the way.
If you all think this is a good idea, we would have to choose a date, advertise the event, devise/modify and print out FATCA educational materials (update the FATCA fact sheet), create signs, see if other groups (perhaps those with protesting experience) will join us, etc. I have a few ideas, but need more if we have any possibility of doing this.
What do my fellow Brockers think?
It’s got to be a fund raising event as well, collect names and email addresses to start collecting for the ‘super fund.’ As a cynical stunt you might ask the ambassador or embassy staff to give as well.
Get together a big check with a significant figure collected in front of each consolate whether it’s accurate or not.
I think protests would be a great way to gain some notice by the press and Canadians as a whole.
I would also like permission to post an excerpt of Charl’s article on Facebook as a means of getting attention.
Also get your smartphone out to take donations to the fund right in front of the embassy with Square payment service
@Don, that’s CHEQUE, not check! For shame!
@Bruce I would be delighted for you to use any part of it. Now if you could just get it into any large city newspaper I would be even MORE delighted.
@whitekat It’ll be cheque again soon, but the superfund needs dosh to get FATCA overruled. During my time south of the border they don’t like British spellings.
Need to go back across the Pond soon again.
I agree we need to be big and loud . My MP has advised me to go after the PC since they signed it. One Brocker described my MP as Pontius Pilate channeled. I can not disagree with that thought, if any one knows any OWS or occupy Bay street. Then it would be good to, get protest advice.
I am ready to help.
Thanks, Charl. I especially like your second paragraph. That really puts things into perspective!
Re:
George has made many significant contributions to Isaac Brock in the way of comments. He told us of “clinging nationality or clinging citizenship” here and often after that: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/14/b-c-freedom-of-information-and-privacy-association-speaks-out-against-fatca-iga/comment-page-2/#comment-1232449
We would want to make sure we are protesting appropriate things. i.e., Penalties for FBAR:
http://www.moodysgartner.com/irs-says-fbar-penalties-not-collectible-under-canada-us-treaty/
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/02/13/3200/
any IBS members attending the info session in Montréal tomorrow?
Bruce Heyman former Goldman Sachs partner and fundraiser for Obama may wind up as Ambassador to Canada. He’s been appointed, however the arrival date seems mired in political red tape. Maybe that’s a good thing?
You`d have to really get more than just a handful of people because otherwise it will look like a very minor issue. That would sooner make for bad press than good, imo. What it would take is 1000s of protesters.
@Polly I’ve been giving all of my “untainted” friends the scoop on what this will do to the Canadian economy in general and how it does actually effect them. I also ask if they would be willing to come protest the government allowing the US to re-write our privacy laws and infringing on our sovereignty. (Rather extreme but just trying to motivate here. They too have skin in the game.) So I am slowly collecting my share of folks and if we all do the same maybe we can get some volume here. I haven’t approached John Richardson yet but maybe he can hand something out at his sessions. Maybe he has troops he can rally at least in Toronto. Maybe the folks out of McGill can rally the students in Montreal. Do others know of folks with rallying power in their areas? Hey, at this point all we can do is fail. I am also going to try and contact the OBS/OWS folks as the context also fits their mission; the 1% wins the little guy screwed AGAIN. Maybe the Green Party will help….anymore ideas who I can contact?
Find an entertainer that’s a ‘US Person’ and ask them to perform briefly as part of an anti-FATCA rally.
As I’ve said on more than one occasion, “I’m in” – just say when. Only don’t ask me to go topless, ok?
As well as “clinging nationality”, I like Em’s gum on the bottom of shoe analogy. (Maybe dog poo would be better, Em, in that you may not be able to see it, but you sure know it’s there somewhere!)
@Don I can imagine “The Bieb” is caught up in this mess somehow. Reckon he would draw a crowd but we’d probably all end up in orange jump suits. Does any other entertainer come to mind? The only Canadian entertainers I can think of at the moment live in the US so they might not want to jeopardize their own situation. Are Bare Naked Ladies still around? Gordon Lightfoot? Blue Rodeo? (I am rather out of the loop on knowing who’s “in” as you can see with my thinking of Lightfoot). What US entertainers have moved to Canada? How would we find out if any Canadian entertainers have a US parent? And does it really matter as long as they might care about the larger picture?
@bubblebustin…..awe come on, be a sport! You would have worn a shirt but the US took it right off your back!
Charl,
If you go to the home page “Archives” and do a search on “protest” you will come up with all of the posts from the past protests. There may be some ideas or contacts in those for your planning.
Lol, Charl.
The Bieb’s got a US visa. I checked it out when there was talk of deporting him back to Canada.
there are transfers available that can be printed on a computer printer and then ironed on a t-shirt. It’s more flexible than the sign one might carry
Fun to watch this topic burble upward from the repressed depths. How long has it taken for this mild degree of enthusiasm for the most effective tactic to gain a tiny puff of steam? Yay to Charl. More Charls.
A few oldsters, tottering along the 18 inches of curb they think they’re restricted to, would be nothing but sad. So would prissing around about FBAR technicalities.
Pick a seasonable later spring day well ahead, blanket the public sidewalk outside every US consulate for a few strategic hours – live prone bodies with sacks over heads. Time to writhe and die in public. Go bold or stay home. Arrests very unlikely to happen and would never stick.
Have no fear. Sauve qui peut.
I cannot post an image but for one demonstration I was at two years ago, people planned ahead of time with lots of signs. It would be great if that many people would show up at the embassy demonstrations. Nevertheless, Harper is the same (this was about his anti-science policies). See pic at:
http://www.genetics.forestry.ubc.ca/ritland/stop%20harper.jpg
Lots to respond to:
Patricia….yes, my “tainted” wife and I (with my “Kryptonite Card”) will be in Montreal tomorrow.
Other notes…..I think it would be wise to wait a bit longer before US consulate protests happen, as the general public is hugely ignorant at the moment. They’ll be riled up soon enough to get us the numbers we need to avoid small crowd embarrassment.
As far as a real US tainted entertainer goes, can I suggest Ronnie Hawkins? He’s born in Arkansas and has warmly embraced his life in Canada (even awarded the Order of Canada). I read he has cancer, so I hope he would be up to it.
And, I too, LOVE the concept of “clinging Nationality” which certainly gets through the feeling of it being unwanted.
@WhiteKat: “We need to expose the real numbers of dollars that the US is attempting to extract from Canadians.”
This is another estimate of the potential wealth transfer to the US of USP assets in Canada:
Average wealth of adult Canadian: US$251,034 (1)
2012 OVDP: 27.5%
Estimated US taxes, interest and penalties on income related to undeclared USP non-US assets: 20%
Average wealth transfer from OVDP and estimated US taxes, interest and penalties: $119,241 ($251,034 x (.275 + .20))
USP population in Canada: 1,000,000
Non-adult population in Canada: 16.1% (2)
USP adult population in Canada: 839,000
Total wealth transfer of USPs in Canada through 2012 OVDP: US$ 100.043 billion ($119,241 x 839,000)
(1) 2013 Credit Suisse Global Wealth Databook
(2) Wiki “Demographics of Canada”: 16.1% is Canadian population 0-14 age.
Comment: The $100 billion figure using the OVDP approach is similar to your $90 billion FBAR penalty figure.