We shall not stand up for Canadian citizens and residents in Canada.
We shall deem their ‘US indicia’ more important than their Canadian citizenship and permanent residence.
We shall change Canadian law of the land to enforce extra-territorial law in Canada.
Question from “Don” – If Harper wakes up some morning and finds the IGA has been ruled unconstitutional, how easy or difficult would it be for him change the Charter to enact ‘legal’ discrimination? In other words, what are his options?
Another MP letter answering a constituent, this time from the Minister of National Revenue:
Dear XXX:
Thank you for your correspondence of February 12, 2014, about the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) enacted in the United States.
I understand from your email that you are opposed to FATCA and are critical of actions taken by the Government of Canada.
As you are aware, the U.S. uses citizenship as the basis for taxation while Canada and most of the rest of the world use a residency-based approach. I understand that this situation creates unique challenges, including compliance burdens for U.S. citizens who reside in Canada or elsewhere in the world, even when they do not owe U.S. tax. Please note that the U.S. citizenship-based tax system has been in place for many years and is not altered by the recently signed intergovernmental agreement under the Canada–U.S. tax treaty.
The Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) administers taxes and benefits only in Canada. Therefore, it encourages U.S. taxpayers looking for information on their U.S. tax obligations to visit the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS) website atwww.irs.gov and read its guidance on the streamlined filing procedures for non-resident U.S. taxpayers atwww.irs.gov/uac/Instructions-for-New-Streamlined-Filing-Compliance-Procedures-for-Non-Resident-Non-Filer-US-Taxpayers .
While FATCA was enacted by the U.S. government to promote U.S. tax compliance, it has raised concerns in Canada among dual Canada-U.S. citizens and Canadian financial institutions. If the Canadian government had not signed the intergovernmental agreement, non-compliance with FATCA could have subjected Canadian financial institutions and their account holders to sanctions, including special U.S. withholding taxes on payments to them from the U.S. Also, compliance with FATCA would have forced Canadian financial institutions to report information directly to the IRS, potentially violating Canadian privacy laws.
You can find more information on why the intergovernmental agreement was signed on the Department of Finance Canada website at www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/notices/fatca-eng.asp .
As Minister of National Revenue, I can assure you that the CRA will administer fairly any legislation enacted to implement the intergovernmental agreement according to the privacy and confidentiality rights of Canadians. The intergovernmental agreement is strictly an information-sharing agreement and the CRA does not collect the U.S. tax debt of a Canadian citizen if the individual was a Canadian citizen at the time the debt arose.
Canadians who hold financial accounts can find more information at
www.cra.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/menu-eng.html .I trust the information I have provided clarifies the position of the CRA on this matter.
Yours sincerely,
Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, P.C., Q.C., M.P.
Minister of National Revenue
Extraordinary rendition of financial information: Conservatives do not deserve to run Canada.
Well now, this proves you were all patsys for the banks. How does it feel to have paid taxes, been upstanding good Canadians(the kind of citizens other countrys wish they had) obeyed all Canadian laws just to have your representatives sacrifice you and your families lives to protect our banks? This is, at the very end, what they have done to you. Well, the fight has just began. I am working on a t-shirt with a Sheep with a red circle around it with a line through it saying, CANADIANS HAVE HAD ENOUGH
“…besides, they made us do it!” Pathetic clowns…
“Is strictly an information sharing agreement”
They just don’t get it! They think we are afraid of taxes being collected!
No, we want our Charter Rights protected. We don’t want our bank to treat us differently than any other Canadian. We don’t WANT our “information” shared! Period!
Again, they don’t answer the real question or address the real problem. This has nothing to do with what the U.S. does or does not do. It had nothing to do with the collection of taxes for the purposes of this violation. It has to do with our rights to bank in this country the same as everyone else and to not be treated as second class Canadians for those purposes. My god, they are being deliberately thick!
Money always trumps civil rights or human rights. Once again, the courts must force the banks and the government to do the right thing.
Simply unbelievable.
The deputy federal Liberal leader and former Canadian Finance Minister is speaking at a forum on the economy in South Surrey – White Rock tomorrow evening:
http://www.thenownewspaper.com/community/liberal-mp-ralph-goodale-to-talk-in-south-surrey-march-11-1.885250. I’m going to take Minister Findlay’s and Flaherty’s letter to him and get his comments/stand on FATCA. Anyone care to join me?
I posted this on another thread, but maybe it should be here? http://business.financialpost.com/2014/03/10/canadas-draft-legislation-undermines-fatca-agreement-with-u-s/
@ATTICUS “We don’t want our bank to treat us differently than any other Canadian. ”
The CRA needs to hand over the financial information on ALL Canadian Citizens to the USA, regardless as to how they are Canadian OR do not hand over any information.
That would probably withstand muster constitutionally but they do not have the guts to do that politically.
I would love for a Judge to rule that is the only option.
@CanadianGirl, thats a good link.
How High will Harper jump?
@all. Has anyone been bringing up the slippery slope argument? We all know there are many hot issues where people point out the slippery slope. Regardless if you were for or against the issue, we can likely agree that many issues went way down the slippery slope.
This IGA is one such slippery slope and I hope Avery also addresses it legally.
For the first time, the Government of Canada is formally recognizing US Citizenship on Canadian Citizens who are in Canada. This is the camels nose under the tent.
Decades of settled international law on nationality is being upended.
@George Why don’t you submit that question under the posting about what questions you would like Mr. Arvay to consider?
Yes, let’s have the banks either turn over the data of ALL Canadians or none!
Yes, this is a slippery slope! How about the U.S. request the data from real estate agents who sell the homes with one “U.S. person” in them all over the world. You know just in case. Then perhaps other nations could ask for the same data on their citizens abroad. Maybe they want to have our health records exchanged by Canadian doctors or the ministry of health.
Atticus, they do understand but can’t really afford to admit it so they redirect. If they were to admit that this is really about privacy issues and Charter Rights, they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.
It’s totally a slippery slope because it is giving into the American notion that Americans must obey American rules/laws regardless of where they live on the planet, if they hold citizenship where they and even the fact that their USC standing might be secondary to their actual nationality by birth or choice.
More and more it should be obvious that to be an American is to be owned by the USG. It’s like slavery was never outlawed there at all.
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YogaGirl… your comment 2;50PM rang every single bell in my head. “it is like slavery was never outlawed at all”…… we are fighting a concept that USG has that we should pay them tribute every year or file 100 page returns disclosing every iota of net worth …….we are fighting for hearts and minds , no taxation without representation
if homelanders had to fill in 1/4 of the forms we do it would make the “occupy” movement pale I think
It’s just about inconceivable that the federal government would not have consulted constitutional lawyers re the IGA. As such, perhaps an access to information request would yield some interesting information. My gut guess is that we would get nothing that isn’t heavily redacted, but that itself would be useful info IMO (i.e., they don’t want us to know what the results were).
@ AtticusinCanada – That thought has crossed my mind as well. To avoid discrimination, you send everyone’s data to the IRS and make them fill in the same IRS form. I’m sure that’ll be vote winner.
Equally I’m sure the Americans will be pleased the CRA has 300M+ American’s data as well.
Well if we reach that point, who’s running Parliament Hill? Just close it down the operation and give Canada two US Senators and the proportional number of Representatives for each Province.
Oddly enough I’m sitting near the Boston Tea Party ship at present! Taxation Boat extraordinaire. I’d love to see someone produce a photo with bales of tea with FATCA OFF in Boston Harbor next to the ship as a one-off.
Heh. Love the idea of the Canadian government telling the U.S theyll send ALL Canadians’ data – or nothing! – and the USG can try and sort out who is American and who is not ’cause it’s THEIR stupid legislation anyway. That would send a hell of message. Too bad our government has no balls.
One other thought – the Australians call the English ‘POMEs,’ Prisoner of Mother England.’. Is a ‘US person’ really any different?
we are “Yoosels”…”USSL’s” stands for “US slaves”
@Yoga Girl “the fact that their USC standing might be secondary to their actual nationality by birth or choice.”
You are falling into the word trap.
There is no such thing as secondary citizenship.
A Canadian with clinging US nationality in Canada is 100% Canadian.
But if that same Canadian crosses the border you will be deemed 100% USA.
There is no such thing as half or quarter citizenship!! You can only be one.
To use a very droll expression that I normally never use but it is explanatory, “there is no such thing as being a little bit pregnant.”
The only place I ever heard such rubbish expressions as being half American or half Finn or quarter this…..was in the USA!!!
@George
“The only place I ever heard such rubbish expressions as being half American or half Finn or quarter this…..was in the USA!!!”
A propos rubbish expressions: I find it ridiculous when the Americans refer to fellow citizens of Irish, Polish, Italian, etc. etc. descent (which may go back hundreds of years) and say that they’re Irish, Polish and Italian. When I tell them, no, they’re Americans, they always look dumbfounded. Americans really have very odd ideas about the concept of citizenship. I guess that’s what makes them “exceptional”. 😉
@notamused, you put a smile on my face. That is so true and I am glad others see it as well.
My spouse used to say things like that and only recently has come around.
I have to tell my kids that when they are in the USA, regardless of their preference since they entered on a mandatory US Passport they are US and nothing else.
But…when they are in the EU they are citizens of the European Union which is recognized in law and the nationality of their respective EU Passport. That is the sole instance of dual nationality recognized in law.
@notamused, its worse when that sixth generation _________ thinks that they are then entitled to a passport from ___________
I have gotten to the point with homelanders that refer to themselves as ____________ of asking them “Oh, you carry a passport from __________ ? When they say NO, I correct them that they are a homelander, nothing more nothing less.
@George
Indeed! Typically these people have never been there, don’t speak the language, and if I were a gambling man, I would likely bet that some couldn’t even find their “home” country on the map – and yet they claim to be ______s. OK, I’d better stop now. 😉
@notamused…. getting out in a sense is therapy. 😉
ten years ago, the US expat population was an unpaid cadre of goodwill ambassadors.
Today? We hide our Americanness in the closet from our neighbors and our own country. Love of place of birth has become disdain.
I am literally gleeful anywhere in the EU when someone asks, “Are you Canadian?” By the grace of God I sound, act and look more Canadian than due south. But really, is that how one should be in life?