This summer, major portions of the controversial US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act come into effect. What will it mean for Canada? We met with Professor Allison Christians of McGill University to talk international tax, individual privacy, and national sovereignty.
While we’re at it, everyone should go and download Allison Christian’s law articles and put her on the scholarly map (her ranking increases with more downloads):
Leave a comment, eh? Okay, same as here …
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/02/14/oecds-plan-for-global-tax-info-exchange-could-be-deja-vu-all-over-again/
Great interview, Prof. Christians! Nobody could listen to that without getting a very clear picture of CBT, RBT, FATCA, IGA, etc.
The podcast link has been passed to a Civil Liberties organisation in another country. At the moment, they’re happily napping not paying attention to FATCA. But after 1/7/14, they’ll slowly start to wake up.
I’m thinking about starting a local blog there to raise awareness.
Did no one notice the blunder in the title? (What FATCA will mean for FATCA?). I just get in too much of a hurry sometimes. Note to self: please recheck the blog title before posting.
A great article in French which explains FATCA and its consequences for Canadians in detail.
http://affaires.lapresse.ca/opinions/chroniques/stephanie-grammond/201402/18/01-4740047-snowbirds-citoyens-americains-sortez-la-tete-du-sable.php
@Petros
I actually did notice, but thought maybe you were being clever and it was going over my head. You might want to change your friendly URL as well.
Great podcast! I’m off to tweet it right now. Thanks for sharing.
I noticed it Petros, but I thought you were being cryptic.
One very interesting thing that I took away from this was the idea that rich people who *really are tax cheats* will have the resources to find a way around this thing, leaving the minnows as easy (IOW inevitable) targets. I hear a lot of back and forth about whether or not the IRS is really targeting non-evaders (in my book you can’t evade something you’re not aware of), but maybe the more important question is – considering the best case scenario for a moment in which the IRS doesn’t really give a damn about you and me – what will happen to us down the road when the slippery big fish have all escaped the nets and FATCA is in danger of being outed as a colossal failure?
Anyway, just a thought. Like I need more thoughts like these to keep me up at night!
@Wren
The rich have moved on & are gone.. we little people are left behind… struggling to breathe as we are robbed. But as I am reading all the different posts.. I don’t think they care about the taxes but rather all the penalities they are collecting. They keep going on about how successful the ammesty was… how much money they got… blah..blah… they didn’t get that much in taxes… it was alll the penalities that was piled on. But I think the biggest plus is all the info they can gather for free & they don’t have to worry about privacy… there is none… so a hacker… disgrunted person.. can just dump or sell all the info they get… No one will help when that happens.. its our problem… so basically its a win/win for the US… foreign governments gives them a yearly gift with a bow on it for free… US makes a bit of effort for the info to be passed but the real criminals have already hidden the money in the US or elsewhere… we don’t have the means or resources for that.
@US_Foreigner_Person
Re: “I don’t think they care about the taxes but rather all the penalities they are collecting.” – This is what I am thinking, too, especially since reading about reports to Congress analyzing all the money to be made by using passport info to collect taxes, opening up data sharing between IRS and State Dept, etc. It’s all about money and how to get more of it. And the penalties are so ridiculous. $10K for not filling out a form? How can they justify that? If they ever get one dime from me it will be when I renounce and even though that’s a goddamn cash grab, too, it will be worth every dime for the satisfaction I will feel.
(I think I have graduated from OMG to anger phase. :))
Some speakers sound so sensible and sane- yet nobody in power seems to hear them.
@Polly
*yet nobody in power seems to hear them*
Ohh.. they hear us & don’t care… The almighty US is the word to all.. screw everyone else. Ex-pats have a vote but the ones in charge don’t count them & immigrants don’t have a vote… they are suppose to bow their heads.. & say… yes master.. Thanks for letting me breathe your air…
@Wren
I had my OMG moment already… I past anger… now I am at… screw u… My whole thing is… be fair.. be just… this crap ain’t fair or just.. Everyone has a different story but are being tossed aside like we don’t matter… We all have a long memory… my memory will kick in when voting… ohh… he/she was for it &/or did nothing… nope.. wait… here is someone.. I never heard of.. going for them. Justin T… he is a puppet & no real sense of his own. Umm.. not to say anything about my age… But I am pretty sure I have a hand bag older then he is… geez…
Final, Final FATCA Regs issued today:
Treasury tweaks global tax dodge law one last time
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/20/us-usa-tax-fatca-idUSBREA1J1O220140220
Treasury and IRS Amend Final FATCA Regulations
http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/Treasury-IRS-Amend-Final-FATCA-Regulations-69657-1.html
“A senior Treasury official who requested anonymity said in a conference call with reporters….. Asked about the increase in citizenship renunciations by Accounting Today, he pointed out that there are a number of reasons why a citizen may decide to renounce their citizenship and expatriate, and there is not necessarily a direct correlation between FATCA and the increase in renunciations in recent years.”
Its gotta be Robert Stack. He’s speaking anonymously now — the paid liar that he is.
My guess is that he will eventually quit Treasury to join the Compliance Complex where he will make big bucks rescuing burning people (maybe even expats) from the fires he helped to set.
Guru Allison Christians says:
7:15
It [the IRS] wants to know, what do you owe? It wants full financial surveillance of you, and if full financial surveillance is available and the IRS does find out about you … You could be in a situation where you may never have owed a single dollar of tax to the IRS, but by failing to divulge your own financial information to the IRS … you now face extraordinary penalties. The main feature of FATCA is fear — right now. And what you will see going forward is fear compounded by actual consequences. And when those two come together … there’s no going back. You now know something that you should be very afraid of and don’t know what to do about.
8:19
Calling all self-identified ostriches. (No wild turkeys allowed.) Here’s your chance to pile all over Allison Christians for being an evil alarmist compliance-mongering troll.
Come on, little ossie! Pop that head up out of the sand. Let fears fuel blunderbuss vitriol.
Wait and see is a strategy.
But stretching out the pause
Vitiates “reasonable cause.”
All the while the enemy
Creates ever more laws.
@usxcanada
I’m glad you are here because you’re a great resource. I’ve definitely learned more than a thing or two from the stuff you’ve posted. And apparently you are a fine poet as well.
But you have a thing about ostriches which makes it difficult to surmise what, exactly, you’re trying to communicate to the rest of us. Can you just come out and say it? Or point me to a post where you did just that? I certainly wouldn’t ask you to repeat yourself.
Thanks –
@Wren,
There are no Coles Notes for USXAbroad’s writings, unfortunately.
@USXAbroad, recently my kids spotted twelve wild turkeys in our backyard. I wonder if they are good to eat….might need to consider this option if IRS steals the kids RESP money, though I hear wild turkey’s are wily which might make them difficult to catch.
@US_Foreigner_Person
I don’t want to get into a deep discussion about the squabbling ninnies that are currently competing for a gold medal in political bullshtics except to say Justin T has a very nice twizzle.
Let’s just say I fear for our future possibly even more than our present. 😉 Maybe it has something to do with the fact that this thing has forced me to agree with the RNC for the first. time. ever.
Oh my, I feel nauseous…
I’m afraid we need Coles Cryptic Notes to fully understand usxcanada’s writings, but I personally enjoy the mental contortions I have to go through for his/her nuggets of wisdom.
@WhiteKat
🙂 Now, now. Let’s leave the wild turkeys out of this.
@ Wren
There are no ostriches at Brock but even if there were this would not be a bad thing. It is a myth that ostriches bury their heads in the sand. We are not myths either. I think we established that fact pretty well in the near past.
http://www.ostriches.org/factor.html#head
“Ostriches do NOT bury their heads in the sand.
This tale originates from the fact that the male ostrich will dig a large hole (up to 6 to 8 feet wide and 2-3 feet deep) in the sand for the nest / eggs. Predators cannot see the eggs across the countryside which gives the nest a bit of protection. The hen as well as the rooster takes turns setting on the eggs and because of the indention in the ground, usually just blend into the horizon. All birds turn their eggs (with their beak) several times a day during the incubation period. From a distance it appears as though the bird has his/her head in the sand.
An ostrich’s first response to fear is to run. Not only do they not stay to protect the eggs, they attempt to detract a predator to follow them. Due to the fact that they can run sustained speeds of about forty miles per hour, most predators are quickly lost and the eggs are safe.”
@Em
Nothing whatsoever wrong with that strategy. I might just do that, but deposit my eggs at a credit union just in case. Gooo ostrich! 🙂
Another good one by Allison if you have not read it…
Taxpayer Rights, On and Off-Shore: The 2013 Taxpayer Advocate’s Report to Congress
Dear Prof. Chistians –
I read your paper, and noticed you did some comprehensive analysis of other jurisdictions/regimes. I therefore have a suggestion/idea for you and/or other Brockers to look into. Namely only a few selected US Embassy websites list on their landing pages a direct link for instructions on renunciations. My question is: which countries are these? Can these be easily identified, tabulated and/or visualised?
I have a hypothesis that these websites are in countries where:
(a) residents in general are taxed are lower rates than the US
AND
(b) incomes/wages are generally higher
I look forward to seeing someone with more time on their hands to do such an analysis. Should not take too long — and might give an interesting insight into the source/driver of many CLNs that otherwise you could obtain through FOIA requests.
@ NotThatTara,
Here’s a list which Abused Expat created. I’ve added to it as more consulates add renunciation information to their sites, as over the past two years, more and more consulates have been adding renunciation to their sites.
Note that this list is probably not all-inclusive. It’s updated for the convenience of Brock readers, but not as thoroughly as one would for research purposes — it’s not a priority task to update it, as it’s pretty easy for people to find their local consulate through a google search anyway. Another point of caution – some consulates who actually do a lot of renunciations don’t have renunciation info on their site.
EUROPE:
http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/acs/passports/renunciation.html
http://germany.usembassy.gov/acs/citizenship/renounce/
http://bern.usembassy.gov/service/renunciation5.html
http://amsterdam.usconsulate.gov/dual_nationality2/renunciation-of-u2.s.-citizenship
http://norway.usembassy.gov/renounce.html
http://denmark.usembassy.gov/other_services/renunciation-of-citizenship.html
http://athens.usembassy.gov/renunciation.html
MIDDLE EAST:
http://kuwait.usembassy.gov/renunciation.html
http://istanbul.usconsulate.gov/renunciation_of_citizenship.html
THE AMERICAS & CARIBBEAN:
http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/renunciation_.html
http://kingston.usembassy.gov/renunciations.html
http://canada.usembassy.gov/service/book-an-appointment.html
http://calgary.usconsulate.gov/service/booking-appointments.html
http://toronto.usconsulate.gov/service/other-consular-services/renunciation.html
http://vancouver.usconsulate.gov/about-us/consulate-information.html
AFRICA: So far, we haven’t found any reference to expatriation on consulate websites in Africa
ASIA & OCEANIA:
http://canberra.usembassy.gov/renunciation.html
http://lahore.usconsulate.gov/citizen-renunciation.html
http://islamabad.usembassy.gov/acs/citizenship-renunciation.html
http://karachi.usconsulate.gov/citizenship_renunciation.html
http://singapore.usembassy.gov/renouncing-us-citzenship.html
http://shanghai.usembassy-china.org.cn/renounce.html
http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/service/renunciation-of-u.s.-citizenship
http://seoul.usembassy.gov/acs_cln.html
http://hongkong.usconsulate.gov/acs_renunciation.html
http://chengdu.usembassy-china.org.cn/service/other-services/renuncitation-of-u.s.-citizens
http://www.philippine-embassy.org.sg/consular/citizenship/renunciation/
http://manila.usembassy.gov/service/dual-nationality.html
I think it would be most useful if statistics were available to correlate the number of renunciations actually done in each country. Perhaps the US govt does not release such stats as it would show most renunciations are occurring in high-tax jurisdictions?
Wren –
Look back to Menippus
Great interview– highly recommended that folks take the 15 minutes to listen to this. Prof. Christians– you have done my alma mater (McGill) proud!