397 thoughts on “The Canada United States FATCA Intergovernmental Agreement”
@ChearsBigEars, actually may be not. I read the anti-gold propaganda all the time in the mainstream media. Of course I agree with you about gold being money and that every paper currency in the world is now worth nothing. But the Keynesian lie about gold being a barbarous relic is quite widespread, and would not be surprising at all that a large portion of the Canadian population believes it. I’ve read many of Animal’s comments in the past, and I’ve never suspected anything.
john berkey, oh, you can bet there is a connection btwn the IGA and Keystone fer sure. The approval for the latter may lag a bit but the USG has been stalling on it and on the money for the border bridge in Ontario too. Expect both issues to magically clear up in the next little while.
Animal, really? I take you as a shill for the banks and the financial entities that depend on compliance to the ridiculous notion that paper currency is really worth anything intrinsic. People are so brainwashed and indoctrinated into using this paper crap which loses value to inflation almost hourly (go to the grocery store) that they will likely never see the truth until the banks start limiting withdrawals or have banking holidays……OMG they are already doing that. Keep your trash cash, that’s what the system depends on to keep it functioning, to keep screwing us with lies about “being richer than you think”
I can’t help it Petros, I despise this kind of person who would throw US under the bus. This system is corrupt through and through. Anyone who supports our financial system that is persecuting us should be muzzled in my opinion.
#1. I don’t work for the banks. The only reason why I’m doing this in terms of helping my wife is that her paychecks don’t come in GOLD BULLION…sad to say…ever found any place that will convert a paycheck into gold bullion? Is there any place that one can buy groceries for gold bullion? Because find me a grocery store that will do that and I’ll willingly turn around and conduct ALL my business in GOLD including my work as a photographer.
#2. Who says how much value gold has? The banks? The individuals. Can I tell someone to pay me x amount of bullion for my time and efforts as a photographer? Who determines how much gold one pays for a certain amount of food? 1 ounce of gold equals $300 worth of groceries?
Sure. I’ll buy in if you tell me how exactly you go about trading with gold for the different services that we’d need to use?
Oh, gee, does Nikon deal in gold? Because that’s what I’d need to do (beg them to accept my gold) to upgrade my camera which is getting outdated? Offer me a solution to the multitude of problems that a “gold-economy” would create and I’ll gladly become cashless.
I’ve pleaded and begged my wife to renounce her US citizenship which she hasn’t been able to do yet because other things like bills for utilities keep coming above what we need to save for paying the CLN and renouncing. Also she has to obtain Canadian citizenship before then so that she isn’t stateless. I have absolutely no love for the United States – they can go to hell in a hand-basket for all I care. I, as a Canadian citizen, will tell the IRS to go f*** themselves if they want MY information because of my relation to her and above all, I’m sitting here like a vulture, waiting for the United States economy to implode when the foreign investment in the US dries up thanks to their stupid laws.
Guess I’d better get out my shovel and start building my nuclear bomb shelter ‘cuz when the US implodes…they’ll take everyone out with them. Oh, shit, that’s right. I said “bomb”. I guess I’m on the NSA watchlist now.
@ ChearsBigEars
Your comments as a newcomer to Brock are very valuable but The_Animal has been with us a long time and he is ferociously, and rightly so, protective of his innocent American born wife and his children. He is no more a “shill” or “troll” than you are. Actually I cannot think of anyone more angry about the sheer evilness of US citizenship-based taxation and more against FATCA than him. We are all in the same boat and it doesn’t help when we take pot shots at each other. We have a lot of work ahead of us with this abomination of an IGA and we all have to all start rowing in the same direction.
Right now as a Canadian born citizen (born to 2 Canadians) I am thoroughly disgusted with my country. It rolled over, sold us down the river for 30% or shall I say 3 pieces of silver. I was born in Edmonton…Alberta, the same province as Stephen Harper (and I equate him to Judas)…and I cannot say how I wish I was born in British Columbia so I wouldn’t have to share the same provincial origin as that disgusting sell-out. I see this as the dissolution of our sovereignty (our road to becoming the 51st State of a rapidly self-destructing Union).
My family went through the Japanese-Canadian internment (whereas Canada fought for freedom during the Second World War), my father-in-law fought in Burma during the Second World War for the US Army and he would have told my wife to “get out of the USA…while the gettins’ good” after seeing what happened (thank goodness he never lived long enough to see the country he loved go to hell). I cannot stress enough the betrayal that I feel from Canada now as a result of this IGA. The Americans fought to separate from Great Britain for taxation without representation – now the United States is perpetrating the same injustices up on their expats. There is no freedom. Freedom is just a buzzword now. If we are going to be free, I truly think we have to make our own freedom. Renounce and tell the United States to “fuck you…come try and get me”.
I won’t be setting foot over the border as long as I hold breath in this body any longer. In fact, I’m about as anti-American as you can come. I have no love for homelanders, nor do I have any love for people who would dismantle Canada. But I will not abide for my own country to sell me and my family down the river for three pieces of silver. Today Harper and Flaherty showed their true colors as Judas.
Your comments about gold are diversionary and classic subterfuge
Of course no one puts 100% of their worth in ANY ONE asset class so I don’t understand your objections. They don’t make any sense. If one was silly enough to own JUST gold and they needed to buy groceries etc they simply cash some gold in. Gold is an extremely liquid market. The ‘paper’ price of gold is set by banksters and traders, doesn’t really matter because the spot price is determined by the immediate market.
Again, here is the spot price in CAD. Changes by the minute as does the currency exchange rate though not tied necessarily. http://www.kitco.com/gold_currency/index.html?currency=CAD
OR you can counsel people to keep their money in the bank, just where it is the most vulnerable.
@ Chears Big Ears, The Animal is a Canadian who is married to an American and who clearly and actively opposes US agression into Canada. He, his wife and children are victims of the US. If you’re referring to him, when you say “I despise this kind of person who would throw US under the bus,” you are wrong.
So, does anyone who has had time to read and assess this agreement have any insight into what it means for Canadian citizens who happen to be U.S. persons? Does it completely sell us out or does it provide us with any protections? I’m assuming we’ll see some media analyses soon, but in the meantime it would be great if those who are good at reading these types of documents could share the main points that are of concern to people here.
@animal, ChearsBigEars, the discussion about gold and so forth is perhaps a little distracting. Since this is of great personal interest to me, I suggest we make a new thread (not tonight, I’m tired) and continue the discussion in a completely new thread. But let’s try to be amicable. It can be hard at times on the internet (I really don’t get what the guy Taylor198 was all about).
I think it would be fruitful, given the IGA, to have some open reflexion on the ways we might structure our finances to avoid the IRS. Note the word “structure” is on purpose, because as far the IRS is concern, structuring is a crime. But we are a Canadian-based website, and we can suggest structuring, provided it is within the laws of Canada.
Wow this is like a tornado and stuff is flying around the air including Dorthy and her dog. I tried to read the IGA but no time today. Tomorrow we will find out where Dorthy landed. There might be witches coming. “Em” glad to hear your story. My story was that I was actually chatting with Petros on facebook the exact moment when we found out (2 pm Eastern) that an IGA was reached. Petros is fun! Victoria and Bubblebustin put him on my facebook. Anyway I have my immune shot, my blue thing was tossed last Sept.
Yeah, well, I value my gold higher than that. So can I tell the whoever the exchange is…that I won’t accept less that MY valuation for the amount of gold I possess that I’m willing to exchange for cash. Because if the going rate is $1300/31.1 g I’d want $1500.00. Sorry, but I’m greedy that way. I lookout for myself and my family first. Just like you…I’d say F*** the banks and the money-lenders.
I can’t counsel people to do anything financial, I don’t have the license for that; that requires a financial advisor. I’m a photographer (really restraining myself from calling you a dumbshit!).
So in keeping your money in both cash assets and gold…you’re hedging your bets. So what if the banks collapse and legal tender becomes useless (worthless). Where do you go to exchange your gold then or do we start sawing off bits of gold to pay for our necessities?
Ok Animal, Omedeto Gozaimasu, I’m sorry I doubted you but your comments on gold and calling me a gold industry shill, …..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk
is really a compliment but I’m not although I have owned gold shares from time to time, but your misunderstanding of gold is just criminal in view of the fact it takes away from people some hope and perspective of alternative investments, safe from prying eyes unless they want a W8 from a gopher in whatever piece of ground the gold is buried in lol.
P.s. I meant to specify that some kind of summary of the main points of concern would be useful, if someone is willing to do so.
I agree with you, Chears, that precious metals should be a part of everyone’s portfolio. It’s just the volatility and being subject to other people’s valuation of the same amount of gold that varies that scares the absolute shit out of me.
I wish I had the money to buy up gold and silver as well to keep on hand when I don’t want to sell off the big “gold” amounts. But the problem there is that $1300.00 in our household pays for the rent…and unfortunately there ain’t a whole hell of a lot left over. Maybe I guess I should start with silver pieces ~irony~. Maybe I should mail 3 pieces to Harper after insuring it of course. He’s a Bible-reader, he’ll understand.
” So what if the banks collapse and legal tender becomes useless (worthless). Where do you go to exchange your gold then or do we start sawing off bits of gold to pay for our necessities?”
I rest my case! your gold is now priceless and everyone will trade for it. This has happened a thousand times in history. Call me a dumbshit but is you that is not thinking things through but instead are repeating propaganda from central banks, many whose economies are so bad they’ve sold most of their gold and the last thing they want is for citizens to lose faith in their dirty ponzi scheme.
“Paper gold in the developed world may trade based on the whims of marginal momentum chasers, and of course, the daytrading mood of the BIS gold and FX trading desk, but when it comes to physical gold and China’s appetite for it, one word explains it best: unstoppable.”
Nick, I think some people are reading it and there probably will be some break down soon. If you read the first couple of pages of comments, a few people copy/pasted some of the more stand out items about the types of tax deferred Canadian vehicles that are not subject to reporting and a conversation I had with Petros leads me to believe that the banks have no obligation to back report but only going forward from July 1 and that any sharing the CRA does with the IRS depends on reciprocity, which means that until the USG is ready to hand over info, Canada is under no obligation to “go first”. Also, accounts under 50k are not going to be reported but it’s not clear from the news articles if that is aggregate or not nor if the CRA would be aggregating various accounts as they are reported on individuals.
Bottom line is that Canada wants a few things for cooperating like reciprocity b/c there are likely Canadians in the US who have settled there without settling up with the CRA, Keystone XL approval and that pesky border bridge in Ontario. Ball seems to be in Uncle Sam’s court now. Although, the IGA has to be presented to the House of Commons and it remains to be seen how the Tories plan to sneak or ram this through b/c the Opposition, at least, is on record as opposing it.
@Nick, I do suppose that this will take sometime. That’s why I posted the pdf link, so that the discussion could begin.
I actually think there may be some carefully devised loopholes in the agreement that would let the vast majority of Canadians off the hook on FATCA. But that remains to be seen. Let’s hope. On the other hand, even though certain accounts are exempt, TFSA, etc. that means that Canadians have to be shrewd and refuse to declare such accounts on US taxes if they do them. I will be up front and say that less information that the US has and less they can actually get from the Canadian IGA, the better. What the IRS doesn’t know can’t hurt you.
“that varies that scares the absolute shit out of me. ”
More than letting the IRS try to bankrupt you?
Hey, if gold dropped (or goes up like I think it is now) I’d rather have it in my pocket rather than an unjustified IOU to Uncle Scam
“It was down more than 14 percent at one point. There was an atmosphere of “panic selling” as investors and financial institutions raced to liquidate their holdings of silver and gold. But was this exactly what someone out there wanted? As I wrote about the other day, big banks and news outlets all over the world have been boldly proclaiming for weeks that gold is entering a “bear market” and that now is the time for all of us to sell our gold. In particular, Goldman Sachs reportedly told their clients earlier this month that they “recommend initiating a short COMEX gold position“. Was that just a “good guess” on their part, or was something else going on? Were they actually trying to help create a “selling frenzy” that would drive the price of gold much lower?”
…..
People must stop trusting the banks. MUST STOP
They have people where they want them, but not ALL people http://www.globalresearch.ca/are-gold-prices-a-sign-that-the-market-is-about-to-crash/5331752
@Nick, Yogagirl, and further to that. If I understand correctly, the IGA may actually give each of us the ability to protect ourselves, through knowing what our rights under the agreement are–or better, where the escape hatches are. This means that the CDN government is only giving us the tools to defend ourselves, it is not standing up for us, not really.
Consider this: “A self-certification that the Account Holder is neither a U.S. citizen nor a U.S. resident for tax purposes (which may be on an IRS Form W-8 or other similar agreed form); (3) A copy of the Account Holder’s Certificate of Loss of Nationality of the United States or a reasonable explanation of: (a) The reason the Account Holder does not have such a certificate despite relinquishing U.S. citizenship;
Really, you mean all I have to do is provide the bank a reasonable explanation as to why I don’t have a CLN? Really? Who decides what a reasonable explanation is? If it is the bank manager, as long as he or she is a truly loyal Canadian, “the dog ate it” would be reasonable.
Petros, that reasonable explanation thing certain seems, um, expansive in scope. Perhaps the more legally and tax versed among us will have more insight to share once the agreement has been fully digested.
I know there is a lot of sorrow and frustration today in Canada, and I have read the articles and even commented a few times on the Financial Post one, but have not kept up with the comments. I have been busy on New Zealand web sites educating a few about the realities of U.S. Citizenship and taxation…
I did notice this on a Linkedin posting, which is from a Canadian Banking FATCA Analyst…
The head line:
There’s No point in complaining. It’s here to stay
Shanti Vekaria
Business Analyst FATCA Program, Canadian Bank
Top Contributor
Why are so many people complaining about FATCA and crying FOUL!!!! Just get on with it, it’s here to stay. It’s everyone, everything everywhere …..The sooner it’s embraced, the better the chance of successfully implementing.
I couldn’t take this one sitting down, and after simmering over it for a while I wrote this… It will not make be popular with the compliance types and there about 5,000 of them that hang out there or maybe better put and members of the group.
I wrote:
Are you kidding me? Accept without complaining?
With due respect, why are you so willing accept this major addition to the American global surveillance state? I do know Canada is part of the 5 eyes of global spying, and this FATCA data collection regime is just an extension of that. Maybe you like it. I understand some do. I don’t, and yes I will Complain about it, just like this Canadian article does…
I am puzzled why you expect everyone to comply without even a murmurer? We are not all sheep you know. Why do you want American government to control and know everything about everyone everywhere? Calling Foul is what a Democracy and Free speech allows, and FATCA is FOUL!
Is it because your company has too much money at risk in U.S financial markets? Has your dependence on the all mighty American dollar numbed your ability to speak out?
I don’t mean to be unkind, and fair enough you have a different opinion, but we have ever right to complain, protest or actively work against this “good intention” gone mad. We may lose. Probably will. But, we will not go down without a mummer!
FATCA is wrong for America, It is wrong for Canada, and it is wrong for the global economy. Constitutional due process actions by the DOJ can be very effective at deterring tax evasion. You don’t need a global round up, cavity search of ALL, to stop a small percentage of those who will always find ways to evade. FATCA is full of loopholes already being exploited.
Even the National Taxpayer Advocate sees FATCA as overly broad and detrimental to Tax payer rights. Should she too stop complaining too?
Any program with a grandiose mission which Senator Max Baucas said would stop tax dodging “once and for all”, should send your alarm bells ringing.
Do you know any law no matter how severe that has solved anything “once and for all?”
This ideological thinking is how America embarks on new wars all bolstered by “certainty” of the justice of the mission. It always causes considerable collateral damage. It is important that there are voices crying ‘foul’ to get the bureaucrats and politician’s attention to the unintended consequences of their good intentions.
Remember the NeoCons of the Right? The FATCAnatics of the Left are just as bad.
This War against Offshore Tax Evasion will be about as successful as the War on Drugs, the War on Terror, the War for Iraqi Freedom. Seen that play before and we are still paying the price. But embrace it eh, without complaint?? No way!
Last time I looked Canada was NOT a Tax Haven, and America VERY MUCH IS.
You have done nothing wrong, but are being punished just the same because America has the power to extort it. I trust you will just eat the losses of this compliance effort without passing the cost onto your customers. That seems a good faith way to embrace it.
Frankly, l do NOT want a successful implementation, and I don’t want it EVERYWHERE! Neither does America, as they will NOT impose a DATCA on themselves like what they are requiring of you.
It will probably fall foul of the same type of cockup that ObamaCare has and it is full of security data risk. Information is being handed over to a incompetent IRS bureaucracy via 3rd parties which wastes $13B a year in fraudulent and errant payments, by the OMB’s own accounting!
Anyway, I understand you see this entirely different than me. It is hard to understand, but I accept that is what you believe. So it goes.
You have lots of work to do to search out all the U.S. Persons and turn them over to the International Revenue Service, so better get to it, now that Canada has signed an IGA. One of them probably is your neighbor. Better report them, as that is what members of a surveillance state do. Have fun.
To PM Harpoon
Fuji seppô suru hôshi wa, hirataké ni umaru
@Petros Thanks Petros. So, it looks like we will still have to wait and see a bit longer to see how this is interpreted and played out.
@ChearsBigEars, actually may be not. I read the anti-gold propaganda all the time in the mainstream media. Of course I agree with you about gold being money and that every paper currency in the world is now worth nothing. But the Keynesian lie about gold being a barbarous relic is quite widespread, and would not be surprising at all that a large portion of the Canadian population believes it. I’ve read many of Animal’s comments in the past, and I’ve never suspected anything.
Now this guy at Financial Post, Taylor 198, I’ve got no idea who he is. I think he must be an Obama troll or a compliance industry troll. http://business.financialpost.com/2014/02/05/canada-signs-agreement-to-dull-impact-of-u-s-crackdown-on-tax-cheats/#comment-1232614179
@ NorthernStar,
It’s been a rough day. I appreciate your wisdom.
john berkey, oh, you can bet there is a connection btwn the IGA and Keystone fer sure. The approval for the latter may lag a bit but the USG has been stalling on it and on the money for the border bridge in Ontario too. Expect both issues to magically clear up in the next little while.
Animal, really? I take you as a shill for the banks and the financial entities that depend on compliance to the ridiculous notion that paper currency is really worth anything intrinsic. People are so brainwashed and indoctrinated into using this paper crap which loses value to inflation almost hourly (go to the grocery store) that they will likely never see the truth until the banks start limiting withdrawals or have banking holidays……OMG they are already doing that. Keep your trash cash, that’s what the system depends on to keep it functioning, to keep screwing us with lies about “being richer than you think”
I can’t help it Petros, I despise this kind of person who would throw US under the bus. This system is corrupt through and through. Anyone who supports our financial system that is persecuting us should be muzzled in my opinion.
#1. I don’t work for the banks. The only reason why I’m doing this in terms of helping my wife is that her paychecks don’t come in GOLD BULLION…sad to say…ever found any place that will convert a paycheck into gold bullion? Is there any place that one can buy groceries for gold bullion? Because find me a grocery store that will do that and I’ll willingly turn around and conduct ALL my business in GOLD including my work as a photographer.
#2. Who says how much value gold has? The banks? The individuals. Can I tell someone to pay me x amount of bullion for my time and efforts as a photographer? Who determines how much gold one pays for a certain amount of food? 1 ounce of gold equals $300 worth of groceries?
Sure. I’ll buy in if you tell me how exactly you go about trading with gold for the different services that we’d need to use?
Oh, gee, does Nikon deal in gold? Because that’s what I’d need to do (beg them to accept my gold) to upgrade my camera which is getting outdated? Offer me a solution to the multitude of problems that a “gold-economy” would create and I’ll gladly become cashless.
I’ve pleaded and begged my wife to renounce her US citizenship which she hasn’t been able to do yet because other things like bills for utilities keep coming above what we need to save for paying the CLN and renouncing. Also she has to obtain Canadian citizenship before then so that she isn’t stateless. I have absolutely no love for the United States – they can go to hell in a hand-basket for all I care. I, as a Canadian citizen, will tell the IRS to go f*** themselves if they want MY information because of my relation to her and above all, I’m sitting here like a vulture, waiting for the United States economy to implode when the foreign investment in the US dries up thanks to their stupid laws.
Guess I’d better get out my shovel and start building my nuclear bomb shelter ‘cuz when the US implodes…they’ll take everyone out with them. Oh, shit, that’s right. I said “bomb”. I guess I’m on the NSA watchlist now.
@ ChearsBigEars
Your comments as a newcomer to Brock are very valuable but The_Animal has been with us a long time and he is ferociously, and rightly so, protective of his innocent American born wife and his children. He is no more a “shill” or “troll” than you are. Actually I cannot think of anyone more angry about the sheer evilness of US citizenship-based taxation and more against FATCA than him. We are all in the same boat and it doesn’t help when we take pot shots at each other. We have a lot of work ahead of us with this abomination of an IGA and we all have to all start rowing in the same direction.
Right now as a Canadian born citizen (born to 2 Canadians) I am thoroughly disgusted with my country. It rolled over, sold us down the river for 30% or shall I say 3 pieces of silver. I was born in Edmonton…Alberta, the same province as Stephen Harper (and I equate him to Judas)…and I cannot say how I wish I was born in British Columbia so I wouldn’t have to share the same provincial origin as that disgusting sell-out. I see this as the dissolution of our sovereignty (our road to becoming the 51st State of a rapidly self-destructing Union).
My family went through the Japanese-Canadian internment (whereas Canada fought for freedom during the Second World War), my father-in-law fought in Burma during the Second World War for the US Army and he would have told my wife to “get out of the USA…while the gettins’ good” after seeing what happened (thank goodness he never lived long enough to see the country he loved go to hell). I cannot stress enough the betrayal that I feel from Canada now as a result of this IGA. The Americans fought to separate from Great Britain for taxation without representation – now the United States is perpetrating the same injustices up on their expats. There is no freedom. Freedom is just a buzzword now. If we are going to be free, I truly think we have to make our own freedom. Renounce and tell the United States to “fuck you…come try and get me”.
I won’t be setting foot over the border as long as I hold breath in this body any longer. In fact, I’m about as anti-American as you can come. I have no love for homelanders, nor do I have any love for people who would dismantle Canada. But I will not abide for my own country to sell me and my family down the river for three pieces of silver. Today Harper and Flaherty showed their true colors as Judas.
Your comments about gold are diversionary and classic subterfuge
Of course no one puts 100% of their worth in ANY ONE asset class so I don’t understand your objections. They don’t make any sense. If one was silly enough to own JUST gold and they needed to buy groceries etc they simply cash some gold in. Gold is an extremely liquid market. The ‘paper’ price of gold is set by banksters and traders, doesn’t really matter because the spot price is determined by the immediate market.
Again, here is the spot price in CAD. Changes by the minute as does the currency exchange rate though not tied necessarily.
http://www.kitco.com/gold_currency/index.html?currency=CAD
If you would bother to look that is. Anyone can phone any coin and bullion or foreign exchange office and ask them how much they are buying and selling for and they can book their order.
http://www.netdania.com/Products/live-streaming-currency-rates-foreign-exchange/real-time-quotes/QuoteList.aspx?m=q
OR you can counsel people to keep their money in the bank, just where it is the most vulnerable.
@ Chears Big Ears, The Animal is a Canadian who is married to an American and who clearly and actively opposes US agression into Canada. He, his wife and children are victims of the US. If you’re referring to him, when you say “I despise this kind of person who would throw US under the bus,” you are wrong.
So, does anyone who has had time to read and assess this agreement have any insight into what it means for Canadian citizens who happen to be U.S. persons? Does it completely sell us out or does it provide us with any protections? I’m assuming we’ll see some media analyses soon, but in the meantime it would be great if those who are good at reading these types of documents could share the main points that are of concern to people here.
@animal, ChearsBigEars, the discussion about gold and so forth is perhaps a little distracting. Since this is of great personal interest to me, I suggest we make a new thread (not tonight, I’m tired) and continue the discussion in a completely new thread. But let’s try to be amicable. It can be hard at times on the internet (I really don’t get what the guy Taylor198 was all about).
I think it would be fruitful, given the IGA, to have some open reflexion on the ways we might structure our finances to avoid the IRS. Note the word “structure” is on purpose, because as far the IRS is concern, structuring is a crime. But we are a Canadian-based website, and we can suggest structuring, provided it is within the laws of Canada.
Wow this is like a tornado and stuff is flying around the air including Dorthy and her dog. I tried to read the IGA but no time today. Tomorrow we will find out where Dorthy landed. There might be witches coming. “Em” glad to hear your story. My story was that I was actually chatting with Petros on facebook the exact moment when we found out (2 pm Eastern) that an IGA was reached. Petros is fun! Victoria and Bubblebustin put him on my facebook. Anyway I have my immune shot, my blue thing was tossed last Sept.
Yeah, well, I value my gold higher than that. So can I tell the whoever the exchange is…that I won’t accept less that MY valuation for the amount of gold I possess that I’m willing to exchange for cash. Because if the going rate is $1300/31.1 g I’d want $1500.00. Sorry, but I’m greedy that way. I lookout for myself and my family first. Just like you…I’d say F*** the banks and the money-lenders.
I can’t counsel people to do anything financial, I don’t have the license for that; that requires a financial advisor. I’m a photographer (really restraining myself from calling you a dumbshit!).
So in keeping your money in both cash assets and gold…you’re hedging your bets. So what if the banks collapse and legal tender becomes useless (worthless). Where do you go to exchange your gold then or do we start sawing off bits of gold to pay for our necessities?
Ok Animal, Omedeto Gozaimasu, I’m sorry I doubted you but your comments on gold and calling me a gold industry shill, …..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk
is really a compliment but I’m not although I have owned gold shares from time to time, but your misunderstanding of gold is just criminal in view of the fact it takes away from people some hope and perspective of alternative investments, safe from prying eyes unless they want a W8 from a gopher in whatever piece of ground the gold is buried in lol.
P.s. I meant to specify that some kind of summary of the main points of concern would be useful, if someone is willing to do so.
I agree with you, Chears, that precious metals should be a part of everyone’s portfolio. It’s just the volatility and being subject to other people’s valuation of the same amount of gold that varies that scares the absolute shit out of me.
I wish I had the money to buy up gold and silver as well to keep on hand when I don’t want to sell off the big “gold” amounts. But the problem there is that $1300.00 in our household pays for the rent…and unfortunately there ain’t a whole hell of a lot left over. Maybe I guess I should start with silver pieces ~irony~. Maybe I should mail 3 pieces to Harper after insuring it of course. He’s a Bible-reader, he’ll understand.
” So what if the banks collapse and legal tender becomes useless (worthless). Where do you go to exchange your gold then or do we start sawing off bits of gold to pay for our necessities?”
I rest my case! your gold is now priceless and everyone will trade for it. This has happened a thousand times in history. Call me a dumbshit but is you that is not thinking things through but instead are repeating propaganda from central banks, many whose economies are so bad they’ve sold most of their gold and the last thing they want is for citizens to lose faith in their dirty ponzi scheme.
Why are the Chinese buying every ounce in sight?
Think America is smarter than China ha ha?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-02/chinas-gold-hoarding-continues-over-2200-tons-imported-two-years
“Paper gold in the developed world may trade based on the whims of marginal momentum chasers, and of course, the daytrading mood of the BIS gold and FX trading desk, but when it comes to physical gold and China’s appetite for it, one word explains it best: unstoppable.”
This is long (must expand to full page) but explains what happens when the economy collapses due to balance of payments crisis
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/153909939?access_key=key-1zgv09y6vbks3mlz2neu&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll
Nick, I think some people are reading it and there probably will be some break down soon. If you read the first couple of pages of comments, a few people copy/pasted some of the more stand out items about the types of tax deferred Canadian vehicles that are not subject to reporting and a conversation I had with Petros leads me to believe that the banks have no obligation to back report but only going forward from July 1 and that any sharing the CRA does with the IRS depends on reciprocity, which means that until the USG is ready to hand over info, Canada is under no obligation to “go first”. Also, accounts under 50k are not going to be reported but it’s not clear from the news articles if that is aggregate or not nor if the CRA would be aggregating various accounts as they are reported on individuals.
Bottom line is that Canada wants a few things for cooperating like reciprocity b/c there are likely Canadians in the US who have settled there without settling up with the CRA, Keystone XL approval and that pesky border bridge in Ontario. Ball seems to be in Uncle Sam’s court now. Although, the IGA has to be presented to the House of Commons and it remains to be seen how the Tories plan to sneak or ram this through b/c the Opposition, at least, is on record as opposing it.
@Nick, I do suppose that this will take sometime. That’s why I posted the pdf link, so that the discussion could begin.
I actually think there may be some carefully devised loopholes in the agreement that would let the vast majority of Canadians off the hook on FATCA. But that remains to be seen. Let’s hope. On the other hand, even though certain accounts are exempt, TFSA, etc. that means that Canadians have to be shrewd and refuse to declare such accounts on US taxes if they do them. I will be up front and say that less information that the US has and less they can actually get from the Canadian IGA, the better. What the IRS doesn’t know can’t hurt you.
“that varies that scares the absolute shit out of me. ”
More than letting the IRS try to bankrupt you?
Hey, if gold dropped (or goes up like I think it is now) I’d rather have it in my pocket rather than an unjustified IOU to Uncle Scam
Buy on weakness, know what you believe. Is it any worse than stocks or the price of real estate? Maybe it is better !
http://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html
This is a must read because if its true we have nothing to fear from the Caligula States of America
http://www.globalresearch.ca/are-gold-prices-a-sign-that-the-market-is-about-to-crash/5331752
“It was down more than 14 percent at one point. There was an atmosphere of “panic selling” as investors and financial institutions raced to liquidate their holdings of silver and gold. But was this exactly what someone out there wanted? As I wrote about the other day, big banks and news outlets all over the world have been boldly proclaiming for weeks that gold is entering a “bear market” and that now is the time for all of us to sell our gold. In particular, Goldman Sachs reportedly told their clients earlier this month that they “recommend initiating a short COMEX gold position“. Was that just a “good guess” on their part, or was something else going on? Were they actually trying to help create a “selling frenzy” that would drive the price of gold much lower?”
…..
People must stop trusting the banks. MUST STOP
They have people where they want them, but not ALL people
http://www.globalresearch.ca/are-gold-prices-a-sign-that-the-market-is-about-to-crash/5331752
@Nick, Yogagirl, and further to that. If I understand correctly, the IGA may actually give each of us the ability to protect ourselves, through knowing what our rights under the agreement are–or better, where the escape hatches are. This means that the CDN government is only giving us the tools to defend ourselves, it is not standing up for us, not really.
Consider this: “A self-certification that the Account Holder is neither a U.S. citizen nor a U.S. resident for tax purposes (which may be on an IRS Form W-8 or other similar agreed form); (3) A copy of the Account Holder’s Certificate of Loss of Nationality of the United States or a reasonable explanation of: (a) The reason the Account Holder does not have such a certificate despite relinquishing U.S. citizenship;
Really, you mean all I have to do is provide the bank a reasonable explanation as to why I don’t have a CLN? Really? Who decides what a reasonable explanation is? If it is the bank manager, as long as he or she is a truly loyal Canadian, “the dog ate it” would be reasonable.
Petros, that reasonable explanation thing certain seems, um, expansive in scope. Perhaps the more legally and tax versed among us will have more insight to share once the agreement has been fully digested.
I know there is a lot of sorrow and frustration today in Canada, and I have read the articles and even commented a few times on the Financial Post one, but have not kept up with the comments. I have been busy on New Zealand web sites educating a few about the realities of U.S. Citizenship and taxation…
I did notice this on a Linkedin posting, which is from a Canadian Banking FATCA Analyst…
The head line:
There’s No point in complaining. It’s here to stay
I couldn’t take this one sitting down, and after simmering over it for a while I wrote this… It will not make be popular with the compliance types and there about 5,000 of them that hang out there or maybe better put and members of the group.
I wrote:
Are you kidding me? Accept without complaining?
With due respect, why are you so willing accept this major addition to the American global surveillance state? I do know Canada is part of the 5 eyes of global spying, and this FATCA data collection regime is just an extension of that. Maybe you like it. I understand some do. I don’t, and yes I will Complain about it, just like this Canadian article does…
Theo Caldwell: Say no to Washington’s surveillance state
http://bit.ly/1dZ6kuY
I am puzzled why you expect everyone to comply without even a murmurer? We are not all sheep you know. Why do you want American government to control and know everything about everyone everywhere? Calling Foul is what a Democracy and Free speech allows, and FATCA is FOUL!
Is it because your company has too much money at risk in U.S financial markets? Has your dependence on the all mighty American dollar numbed your ability to speak out?
I don’t mean to be unkind, and fair enough you have a different opinion, but we have ever right to complain, protest or actively work against this “good intention” gone mad. We may lose. Probably will. But, we will not go down without a mummer!
FATCA is wrong for America, It is wrong for Canada, and it is wrong for the global economy. Constitutional due process actions by the DOJ can be very effective at deterring tax evasion. You don’t need a global round up, cavity search of ALL, to stop a small percentage of those who will always find ways to evade. FATCA is full of loopholes already being exploited.
Even the National Taxpayer Advocate sees FATCA as overly broad and detrimental to Tax payer rights. Should she too stop complaining too?
http://1.usa.gov/1eoQzlb
Any program with a grandiose mission which Senator Max Baucas said would stop tax dodging “once and for all”, should send your alarm bells ringing.
Do you know any law no matter how severe that has solved anything “once and for all?”
This ideological thinking is how America embarks on new wars all bolstered by “certainty” of the justice of the mission. It always causes considerable collateral damage. It is important that there are voices crying ‘foul’ to get the bureaucrats and politician’s attention to the unintended consequences of their good intentions.
Remember the NeoCons of the Right? The FATCAnatics of the Left are just as bad.
This War against Offshore Tax Evasion will be about as successful as the War on Drugs, the War on Terror, the War for Iraqi Freedom. Seen that play before and we are still paying the price. But embrace it eh, without complaint?? No way!
Last time I looked Canada was NOT a Tax Haven, and America VERY MUCH IS.
FATCA is crass hypocrisy in action.
http://bit.ly/1cbQNYe
You have done nothing wrong, but are being punished just the same because America has the power to extort it. I trust you will just eat the losses of this compliance effort without passing the cost onto your customers. That seems a good faith way to embrace it.
Frankly, l do NOT want a successful implementation, and I don’t want it EVERYWHERE! Neither does America, as they will NOT impose a DATCA on themselves like what they are requiring of you.
It will probably fall foul of the same type of cockup that ObamaCare has and it is full of security data risk. Information is being handed over to a incompetent IRS bureaucracy via 3rd parties which wastes $13B a year in fraudulent and errant payments, by the OMB’s own accounting!
http://bit.ly/1lzQtx0
Should we NOT call FOUL on that either?
Anyway, I understand you see this entirely different than me. It is hard to understand, but I accept that is what you believe. So it goes.
You have lots of work to do to search out all the U.S. Persons and turn them over to the International Revenue Service, so better get to it, now that Canada has signed an IGA. One of them probably is your neighbor. Better report them, as that is what members of a surveillance state do. Have fun.
To PM Harpoon
Fuji seppô suru hôshi wa, hirataké ni umaru
@Petros Thanks Petros. So, it looks like we will still have to wait and see a bit longer to see how this is interpreted and played out.