I wonder when the arses that are leading the various nations of the world will stand up to the United States. For one, the Canadian government has claimed that they are powerless to change US law, and so they are working on an IGA to sell out Canadian citizens to the IRS. Why don’t they invoke international law? Because they don’t have the balls, and until our leaders each get a pair, they are not worthy of our support. The law in question is the Master Nationality Rule. Here is an excerpt from a blog which shows that both FATCA and citizenship-based taxation are illegal according to international law (emphasis mine):
While nationality laws can be rather straight forward to those who lived in their native countries and never emigrated it can be confusing to those whose families had emigrated to different places over the generation or in a few cases those who marry people from different countries.
What many are unaware of is that there is something under International treaties called The Master Nationality Rule. It is listed under Article 4 of The Hague Convention on Certain Questions Relating to the Conflict of Nationality Laws of 1930. In terms of practical effect, it means that when a citizen is in the country of one of his two or more nationalities, that country has the right to treat that person as if he or she were solely a citizen or national of that country. This includes the right to impose military service obligations, require the person to enter and or exit the country using the country’s documentations, or to require an exit permit or other restrictions to leave the country. If any of the above is an issue there is little if anything the consulate of the person’s other country of citizenship can do as the Master Nationality Rule states that “a State may not afford diplomatic protection to one of its nationals against a state whose nationality such person also possesses.” The UK Home Office explains this rule as “the practical effect of this Article is that where a person is a national of, for example, two States (A and B), and is in the territory of State A, then State B has no right to claim that person as its national or to intervene on that person’s behalf.
Essentially what this means is that the United States may only ask other nations to kindly apply FATCA to US citizens who are resident in the US. Furthermore, the US may not “protect” its citizens abroad who have a second nationality, and therefore, they do not have the right to tax them–i.e., this is the basis for the illegality of citizenship-based taxation. So e.g., a Canadian living in Canada is only Canadian according to the Master Nationality Rule. For the Canadian government to discriminate against so-called US persons living in Canada would be a violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights article 15 as well, so that capitulation to FATCA would violate both international law and Canadian law. This means that Canada was right to send the Eritrean diplomats away from the country for imposing citizenship-based taxation on Eritrean expats living in Canada. And Canada would be right to tell the Yanks to take a hike. But our leadership, unfortunately, does not have the balls to stand up to the Americans. We need them to invoke international law and we need them to stand up to this bully now. The current waffling and weak posturing of the Canadian government has already caused serious damage to Canadian citizens.
Finally, for those smart lawyerish people out there that say international law has no validity in the United States: Stuff that view where the sun doesn’t shine! When running for president, Obama promised that he would honour international law, but he has done the opposite. So international law is an American ideal to which they give lip-service, but their actual policies, like FATCA, require generous spritzing of Poopourri. International law is a pillar of global peace. Under international law, nations learn to get along, and it is a significant instrument for the protection and honour of the sovereignty of nations. Disrespect for international law leads to war. If the US wants to avoid war with every nation in the world, then it must relent from this evil course of action. But already, FATCA is an economic war game that the US is playing. How long will it be before the US begins to threaten to use its military might including its nuclear arsenal against the peaceful nations of the world which at one time, like Canada and Britain, were its allies?
mettleman,
The ramifications are endless. Good night! It is apparent our Canadian MPs are not free to talk — they have their orders from on high.
@mettleman
Does your association know about your required disclosure to the US Treasury? Is your MP aware of the significance?
Breaking news: Obama is setting up an NSA watchdog. Can’t help but think of Nina Olson and the impact (or lack of) of her reports to Congress.
Well, it is official. The office of jim Flaherty is playing games with most of us. I sent a letter to him in November asking several questions about Fatca. I waited until the end of December and called to see why nobody answered me. I was asked the date of my letter and waited. The the person found my letter and told me it would be answered very shortly. I called today to ask why no answer yet and was told that is would be about 6 weeks. Now come on, don’t lie to people and play games with us. Flaherty is now turned into a puppet of the banks and Harper against his will. Fatca is entering a very hostile state with people here in Canada. I would think now is not the time for games…
@bubblebustin i have been involved with 2 groups that are impacted by fatca
yes for the one in which my mp gave me the cheque for. i have not been a signer on the account now for just over a year so i have (?) 4 more to go till i don’t have to worry about that one anymore.
the one that is really concerning my accountant is that i am sole owner of an incorporated company that produces comunity events. we have a letter from the CRA that this company is not for profit (and i have never submitted an invoice for my services) however it starts the year out with over $100,000 in the account which is spent throughout the year producing these events and ends up at about $10,000 by years end. we are looking at setting up somesort of trust or arms length thing to get me off as a signer and even president of this company.
when i had my “OMG” and talked to my accountant (he is a close friend who like me does not charge this company for his services either and is the other signer on the account) has 250-300 clients said to me “wow fatca is horrible. i am glad i don’t have any american clients”
i said “how do you know you don’t”
he said “when they fill out the new client form we ask them there citzenship”
i said “well if you had had me fill one of them out i would have answered canadian and not mentioned my american citzenship”
he said “omg we have been asking the wrong question” and is now in the process of going back to all his clients and asking the american citzenship question.
this is from someone who is possibly the highest reguarded tax accountant in the area that i live and who i know knows the canadian tax accounting practice quite well.
over xmas we were visiting with some of my wife’s friends (these are people in their early ’60s) and were talking about fatca and the gentleman said “oh yes a past partner (who has spent most of his life working in canada) in my business who was an american went and came clean a couple of year ago with the irs and it cost him thousands to get it sorted out.”
then just on tuesday after all the news stories broke at my wife’s work one chap who was there on a day assignment brought the fatca thing up in the lunch room and he said “boy i am sure glad i listened back in 1980 when i took out my canadian citzenship they told me to go to the consulate and renounce which i promptly did” luck him.
like i have said in many other posts i have absoutly no intrest in complying with fatca and will do my upmost to not provide should i be asked by my bank with any proof of american citzenship. i have a copy of my canadian cizenship certificate in my desk at work and plan on using that should the question ever arise.
furthermore i and my wife are fully aware of this decison and are full acceptable of the risks this decision implies such that we are comitted (as much as we were looking forward to spending time traveling throughout the states when we retire) to never crossing the border ever again and as well if flying somewhere taking the risk that our booked flight will not have unforseen circumstances whereby we have to land on american soil.
i further realize it is the ostrich thing but am hoping that our gov’t see’s to it that our canadian citzenship and residency trumps the us of a’s fatca stick. if not i guess i can always be a walmart greeter when i am in my ’80s cause i know i won’t have any money left after complying with the americans.
Thanks for filling us in mettleman. It takes a great deal of courage to be an ostrich. I think we need a more dignified creature to describe you and others like you by. Any ideas? I personally like the honey badger for its fearlessness…
mettleman,
None of us should have to structure our lives as Canadians to make choices other Canadians from anywhere else would not have to make. We absolutely should not be criminalized, forced to find ways to avoid detection of our US-ness as we go about our daily lives and make contributions to our country, Canada, but with the need to always look over our shoulder. It is the norm of fear instilled into us by the US, their real means of control of its people, wherever they may live.
Pingback: Johnny and home sweet home tax woes (update) - GenevaLunch News
GenevaLunch.com is reporting that US citizens in France are being shown the door by banks there. The article also reports that a Swiss couple, living in Houston, is having their mortgage cancelled on their apartment in Geneva due to their temporary US residence:
http://genevalunch.com/2014/01/17/johnny-ongoing-tax-dilemmas/
Another day, another FATCA-induced disaster.
@bubblebustin love that video….have seen it many times.
i actually have a “honey badger don’t give a sh*t” tshirt and on certain days while at crossfit i certainly feel like a honey badger given some of the workouts they give us.
so yes perhaps a honey badger is better than ostrich for several reasons not the least of which they go into situations eyes wide open rather than sticking their heads in the sand which is what i guess i am doing with this decision.
i have always had a problem with being told to do something i know is wrong and generally am not afraid to speak my mind.
i know this situation is wrong and am willing to take a stand and fight for what i believe is right. i am sad that the country i was born in has changed into “fortress amerika” but if it means having to never go there again so be it.
i at least have that option having no family or business ties there. i truly feel sorry for those who can not make that choice and have to travel there for family or business in that they can not make the choice to never cross the border and must comply with the rules.
Re: The Honey Badger.
In Canada we have our very own honey badger type animal…the wolverine. They are known for their shyness but ferocity when cornered, ability to survive in extreme cold, and their very independent, solitary lifestyle. Reportedly they thrive by eating not just flesh or bone marrow of winter killed animals, but crunch up the bones with their powerful jaws and eat the entire carcass.
And yeah, they don’t take s–t from anybody or anything. In the end, their enemies wind up being a menu item!
The wolverine, Canada’s mascot for the US conscientious tax objector 🙂
We have to hide our “USness” to live in our own country and try to live “normal” lives like any other citizen – like the Jews had to circa 1939 – as our countries roll over and pay tribute to the Empire. This is what the USA has become.
@Steve So very true. If you think about it, anyone with “US person” status has to hide from the Nazis(USA) in their own country. Just like the Jewish did in Nazi Germany. The only difference was that back then, the Nazi rule didn’t extend into other countries as most were against them.
@NativeCanadian, Steve
In my view governments that sign IGA’s are worse than the Vichy government. At least Germany had conquered France and instituted their puppet government. But what excuse do governments today for signing IGAs and becoming stooges for the US Treasury Department?
Interesting news: I just read in the Washington Post that “a Pennsylvania judge strikes down the voter ID law as being unconstitutional and places an unreasonable burden on people trying to exercise their right to vote” Replace -voter ID- with FATCA etc. A class action suit would be fine by me.
Eric
In Canada you need voter ID and we only tax residents. This Judge would probably be in favour of FATCA.
Dual citizen is BS would never have FATCA this nonsense.
People can change their citizenship not be citizens of 2 countries,
If you are born in a foreign country you or your guardian( Calgary 411) can choose their citizenship at the age of maturity.
Winston Churchill, was given something called honorary US citizenship (meaningless). His mom was American but that nothing to do with that.
“What rights honorary citizenship bestows, if any, is unclear. According to State Department documents, it does not grant eligibility for United States passports.”
What I don’t completely understand is why the Harper government is not challenging this through the United Nations. This whole Fatca law is a breach of so many laws… where is the UN on this?
@NativeCanadian
I have the same thoughts as you…Can we go as private people?
RNC to join Rand Paul’s fight to protect privacy of Americans overseas
New initiative could help GOP woo 2016 voters abroad
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/15/rnc-join-rand-pauls-fight-protect-privacy-american/
GOOD NEWS…….FATCA TO BE DELAYED AGAIN????
Taiwan could benefit from delay of FATCA: officials
CNA
2014-01-19
12:24 (GMT+8)
A possible delay in the United States’ implementation of a tax information exchange with financial institutions across the world could help Taiwan gain leverage in the follow-up negotiations, local finance officials said on Saturday.
While Taiwan is preparing to sign a pact with the US to help local financial institutions meet tax-reporting requirements under Washington’s 2010 Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), it is likely that the implementation of the act would be postponed, the officials said.
Originally scheduled to take effect on July 1, the FATCA could be delayed for six months, according to the officials. The delay may result from the many pending Intergovernmental Agreements (IGAs) between the US and other countries, through which financial institutions will report information on US account holders to avoid offshore tax evasion.
The US still has a lot of paperwork to complete, the officials said, adding that Taiwan could use the extra time to negotiate better deals.
It is hoped that Taiwan could still sign the agreement with the US by March, they added.
The officials noted that April 25 remains the deadline for local financial institutions to register with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to ensure inclusion on the list of Foreign Financial Institutions.
@ChearsBigEars:
Thanks for the information from Taiwan on another probable FATCA delay. Looks like an additional chink in the armor of the Deputy Asst Treasury Secretary and chief FATCA propagandist, Robert B. Stack. He failed to deliver the IGAs and now FATCA must be delayed again.
If Treasury can’t even get the US military protectorate Taiwan to sign off on its imperialistic law, what chance does it have that real powers like China, India, Russia and Brazil will give up part of their sovereignty by agreeing an IGA under threat. And speaking of military protectorates, where are S. Korea and Israel’s signatures?
“IRS States, “There will be No Delay” on FATCA Implementation
The Countdown to April 25th begins
Author: Montage Services, Inc./Wednesday, January 15, 2014
“Jan. 14 — The U.S. government will not extend the deadline for reporting and withholding to begin under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act past July 1, 2014, Treasury International Tax Counsel Danielle Rolfes said.
“There will be no delay,” she said at a Jan. 14 forum. Extension is “not an option,” she told practitioners and implementing FATCA “absolutely continues to be our top priority,” and more guidance will be released within the next several weeks, Rolfes said.”
http://www.montage-services.com/InsightsNews/TabId/103/ArtMID/469/ArticleID/27/IRS-States-%E2%80%9CThere-will-be-No-Delay%E2%80%9D-on-FATCA-Implementation.aspx
Danielle Rolfes is Deputy International Tax Counsel for the US Department of Treasury. She previously worked at the law firm of Ivins, Phillips & Barker, where Robert Stack was a partner.
This denial of reality reminds me of the statement made by Erich Honecker, the East German prime minister/ dictator, in January 1989 that the Berlin Wall (“anti-fascist protection wall”) would exist for the next 50 or even 100 years. The East German borders were opened eleven months later and, with that, East Germany was on its way out of existence:
http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/international/das-historische-bild/honeckers-zukunftsprognose-1.18221822
“The U.S. government will not extend the deadline for reporting and withholding to begin under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act past July 1, 2014”
This is bull shit propaganda designed to intimidate countries into compliance. Anybody who knows anything about propaganda techniques knows this. Believe my opinion that FATCA will never see the light of day and even though some countries have inked deals it is quite another thing to implement this impossible program in reality. Hell Obama can’t even get a healthcare enrollment website working so how are they going to get this program going? The more delays the better as it gives counterparties more time to realize how utterly ridiculous the whole thing is.
Personally if I managed this site I would deny IRS propaganda artists a platform by allowing them to post their threats. The USA is a paper tiger with a strong military that is incapable of winning a war…..period. They remind me of a little screaming baby with a full diaper.