CBC News: US FATCA Law Catches Unsuspecting Canadians in Its Crosshairs
Update January 16, 2014: Comments to this CBC News article are now closed.
I have sent a thank you to CBC reporters who interviewed me.
From: caroltapanila
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:03 AM
To: Amber Hildebrandt, CBC ; James Fitz-Morris
Cc: Prime Minister Stephen Harper ; Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca ; Michelle.Rempel@parl.gc.ca ; Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca
Subject: Another thank you for the awareness you’ve provided the Canadian public…
Amber and James,
I see that comments are closed for the CBC News article with so many comments. I thank the commenters who supported me and the persons who tried to answer questions and educate on what is happening with US FATCA law coming across our border. I hope that many now realize it is the US’s citizenship-based taxation that makes it possible for the US to leech funds from US Persons in Canada, their Canadian government and each Canadian taxpayer.
More and more will be underlined the absurdity and the unfairness of all of this but that will not be resolution. Some (like my for my son and others whose “foreign” identification will not show a US place of birth, MAY HE FORGIVE ME FOR HAVING SOLD HIM OUT, although his “foreign financial accounts” are identified in the Foreign Bank Account Reports that I’ve “complied with” and sent to the US). It will be that some can be more easily nabbed and put through the wringer of the injustice of FATCA combined with US citizenship-taxation than others. None of this will be equitable and none of it should be as US Person “ignorance” allows criminalization by the US.
With the coverage you have interviewed us for and CBC has provided, I hope that more in Canada have learned of the powerful club the US has with its citizenship-based taxation – and, in my family’s case, that a smaller segment ARE ENTRAPPED, no two ways about that. The US could do something about this. It appears they will not. I’m not holding my breath. And, I am in despair that the other governments of the world can not show some strength and solidarity in saying NO to FATCA that reaps so much collateral damage for their own people.
As has been said by others, and I agree, in regard to the “streamlined compliance”:
But why the hell SHOULD anyone have to? And if they don’t for whatever reason – whether they don’t qualify, or they don’t hear about until its too late, or they don’t want to – then all bets are off, and IRS can penalize them to their hearts content. Finance Minister Flaherty has expressed approval (given blessing to?) the Streamlined program.; this presumes that Canadians with a US status SHOULD make all efforts to become compliant with USA’s immoral citizenship based taxation laws.
I will support all US Persons in whatever choices they have to make for themselves and their families. Yes, we all have to make our own choices. We still hold out some hope that our Canadian government will say no to FATCA. We still want to know from our government if ALL Canadians have the same rights, no matter where they were born, their discrimination by “nationality”.
Even the thought of the US being able to tax gains in our very Canadian personal residence sales that Canada does not makes me want to scream.
So, again, I want to thank Gwen for helping get the CBC coverage better rolling and you two for so respectfully interviewing me. Because of you, there are others in Canada now aware and starting their own research so they can eventually make decisions for themselves and their own families. US Persons in Canada and around the world are so scattered. It is unfortunate that we are not one big US Person group that could go out in solidarity to express the outrage we feel about yet more US collateral damage, this time us!
We have all have a hurt of this betrayal that in no way will ever be erased. It is helping me to have spoken out.
Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart for the opportunity.
Carol Tapanila
PS: I would love the opportunity to reach the person who commented about her, in this instance profoundly disabled son, who will be affected. Above all, I am glad that I reached her in this story but I am unable to tell her that – unless she was able to sift through the many comments to see my tardy reply to her.
********
My comment in 1800 words or less to those commenters who believe we and others like my family and my son should be turned over to the US IRS:
Carol Tapanila
I DID NOT know my child was a US citizen. Not a problem if the US taxed based on residence as all the other countries of the world (except Eritrea, condemned for their same).
The US criminalizes my ignorance. Many will be considered ‘mentally incompetent’ — also dementia or brain injury. My son cannot renounce US citizenship because of mental incapacity and I cannot do so on his behalf. No amount of money from my retirement savings to pay a US tax lawyer makes it possible. Seems entrapment unless US DOS tells me otherwise. From my Washington, DC immigration/nationality lawyer:
DOS persons have “sympathy” for such cases. However, the developmentally disabled person will have to have FULL understanding of what he’s doing; if any question of lack of comprehension and grasping meaning and importance of ramifications, they could NOT approve such a case. From DOS point of view, US citizenship is precious and they have therefore established fundamental requirements for “compelling reason”. Even though there is the risk that a person’s financial resources could run out before his/her life was over, they will never approve a renunciation for financial / economic reasons. DOS has NEVER had such a renunciation case approved due to “compelling circumstances”. I could sue – persons he talked with at DOS are SURE no one would ever win such a case as the courts view the discretionary action that DOS has would take precedence.
There should be an ‘opt in’ to US citizenship, not an ‘opt out’.
Do ALL Canadians have the same rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms or to be waived for ‘US Persons’ Canadians, 2nd-class Canadians by virtue of ‘so-called’ US citizenship? Canadian taxpayer money turned over to the US.
“I want my hard-earned Canadian money that I’ve saved to go to my children, not to the U.S. or some compliance tax lawyers year after year after year after year.”
I can’t think of anyone less deserving of anyone’s hard earned money than the U.S. at this point, except maybe for those blood sucking tax ‘compliance’ lawyers just waiting to cash in on FATCA.
The world needs more people that are willing to stand up for the truth, like Calgary411 and WhiteKat.
Oh Carol! Thank you for your sacrifice. I know it couldn’t be easy to do this. It will help so many countless others, but I know that doesn’t really make it easier or less stressful. I am going to give this to the MP who said that those with a disability wouldn’t ever have enough assets to be affected by FATCA (ignoring what I told them about FBAR and US double taxation of our registered accounts as ‘foreign trusts’).
Phew! I can’t keep up with the CBC comments. There are now over one thousand. I haven’t even time to go back to see if any of mine came out of moderation. Before I can read 200 there are 200 more piling up. This is actually wonderful to see this whole issue coming out like this and getting so much attention … and calgary411 you made it happen! Thank you.
Carol, WhiteKat and Gwen
Thank-you for your effort, Sir Isaac would be proud.
Thank you WhiteKat for your important part in this. We have a trifecta against US tax tyranny today — calgary411, WhiteKat and Gwen. Yahooooooooooo!!!!!!!
Thank you Calgary and White Kat!
I have to admit though that many of the Canadians who commented on the article have a similar outlook towards Americans living abroad as do many of the Homelanders. The American Diaspora is looked upon with an almost universal disdain from the ignorant and uninformed around the world.
It is like every expat is walking around with a sign on his or her back that reads: KICK ME, I’M AN AMERICAN TAX CHEAT!
@FromTheWilderness
yup there still needs to be a bunch of education done for the illinformed.
it seems that many of the responses are this type of shoot first and get the facts later.
i have a hard time recalling when a subject on cbc.ca garnered so many responses and in such a short period of time.
this issue sure struck a nerve with canadians in general eh? like we did not know it would…….
You Brockers have inspired me to put a sign in front of my house “NO TO THE IRS IN CANADA-NO TO FATCA”. I get a moderated amount of cars passing by. I thought if they googled FATCA, they would get more Canadian content than they would have in the past.
Brock rocks!
The Fitz-Morris report featuring Carol is being aired on CBC Radio’s World at Six. You can follow it across Canada if you have internet radio, or tune in in your region at 6:00.
Unfortunately the CBC is now also providing multiple opportunities by Marion Wrobel of the Canadian Bankers Association to promote their own self interested and skewed FATCAmessages – which the CBA is milking for all it’s worth.
Why did the CBC not consider asking a representative of Canada’s credit unions to comment?
Why so much airtime given to the CBA’s chosen and craftily crafted message? They are hardly a disinterested party, and Marion Wrobel even purported to venture an opinion about what their accountholders would prefer (reporting to the CRA vs. the IRS directly).
And he proffered information about the existence of ‘models’ of FATCA that might be the one a Canadian IGA might follow – but he knows perfectly well that the US has been adamant in imposing a set of very inflexible and very complex US conditions – FATCA is not a smorgasbord that Canada is free to pick and choose from as an equal partner. At hundreds and hundreds of pages, even the US does not know exactly how this will work.
We need someone to have the opportunity to discuss the lack of any cost/benefit analysis done for FATCA in Canada.
The costs discussed so far have not touched on the ongoing and incalculable CANADIAN TAXPAYER costs of setting up or building an arm of the Canada Revenue Agency to implement FATCA in Canada – dedicating federal staff and resources to put this into place in Canada – and then to automatically collect and report WHATEVER the US demands – without Canadian recourse – FOREVER and EVER (because FATCA is a onesided agreement as a US domestic law that the US can change at any time as they see fit). Canada cannot quit it unilaterally after signing it.
Where is the CBC followup on Gwen’s great point about the Canadian Charter Rights and Peter Hogg?
Marion Wrobel sidestepped the ID question when he knows perfectly well that it will be the US who will dictate what ID must be used to verify that an accountholder is NOT a US taxable person. And as banks will have to certify their due diligence or suffer withholding and lose money themselves, they are entirely likely to err on the side of certifying MORE people and more accounts rather than less. What about those W9 forms?
Wrobel must be glad he didn’t have to answer any questions about he privacy and data protection rights of NON-US joint accountholders, spouses, children, and business partners.
The CBA makes me sick in their slick conniving half truths and deliberate obfuscation and scheming.
Here is the very same Marion Wrobel being less than candid on high Canadian banking fees – and this is pre-FATCA:
http://www.cba.ca/contents/files/cba-in-the-news/int_20120712_cbcradio_bankfees_bil.pdf
Note that he says at the time that the benefit of service fees is that they are ‘transparent’ and that people can shop around.
So will there be a dedicated FATCA service fee that the banks will transparently bill us for so that we can ‘shop around’?
Wrobel’s recent answer on the CBC interviews re US indicia and effect of FATCA on bank accountholders and opening account differs from what he said very recently in November 2013 http://www.markadler.ca/canadian-banks-to-be-compelled-to-share-clients-info-with-u-s/
ex. see: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-banks-to-be-compelled-to-share-clients-info-with-u-s-1.2437975
‘Canadian banks to be compelled to share clients’ info with U.S.’
November 25, 2013
“Starting July 1, banks must look for markers that identify accounts belonging to Americans”
By James Fitz-Morris, CBC News Posted: Nov 25, 2013 5:00 AM ET
…”At the same time, anyone wanting to open a new account will be asked directly if they are a “U.S. person” as defined by the IRS. Anyone who answers affirmatively will be flagged.
Wrobel says refusing to answer the question could also land any Canadian in trouble.
“If you refuse to answer it you could be considered recalcitrant and your information could be reported.”…………..
I see there is this video on CBC, but I can not get it to play down here. Maybe you can…
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2429871653/
U.S. tax law called ridiculous
Many ‘accidental Americans’ could face hefty fines, accounting costs, says tax law expert Allison Christians
Makes Science News:
http://esciencenews.com/sources/cbc.health/2014/01/13/u.s.fatca.tax.law.catches.unsuspecting.canadians.its.crosshairs
Uh-oh, they got a hold of it at Demons Underwater
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10024323032
“A Calgary woman’s developmentally disabled son is caught in a U.S. tax quagmire that she fears may cost him the money she spent years setting aside for his financial future.
…
For Tapanila, the financial burden has already been costly. She spent thousands of dollars seeking legal advice on how to renounce her son’s U.S. citizenship. Under the law, a parent, guardian and trustee cannot renounce on someone’s behalf.
She refuses to file U.S. taxes for her son, fearful that it would chip away at the funds she’s stashed in a Registered Disability Savings Plan (RDSP) and a Tax Free Savings Account (TFSA).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/u-s-fatca-tax-law-catches-unsuspecting-canadians-in-its-crosshairs-1.2493864
I know, I know…sounds like another Romneyesque tax-dodger story from that right wing mag we know as the CBC. Not your problem! That’s the price of citizenship. Love it or leave it, mentally disabled or whatever.”
HuffPo Canada is covering the article. The written part is great but the so-called senior politics reporter, Sam Stein, gets it all wrong in the accompanying video interview. It really makes HuffPo look stupid when the written article says one thing but the video contradicts everything from the article.
HuffPo CA: “U.S. FATCA Tax Law Catches Unsuspecting Canadians In Its Crosshairs”
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/01/13/us-tax-law-fatca-canada_n_4587639.html
Sam Stein is in need of some serious education.
FATCA forces some tourists (if only on paper) to choose the lesser of two evils – US non-residency, or lower reporting thresholds for those who remain US resident.
“Fortunately, the thresholds are a little high to affect most retirees who live in Costa Rica full time. For example, a U.S. resident (single) has a foreign asset threshold of $50,000. A bonafide foreign resident is allowed $200,000.
However, a perpetual tourist or someone with foreign investments, who does not live abroad full time is likely to be classified as a U.S. resident for tax purposes. In these cases, people who are unable or unwilling to identify themselves as expats to the U.S. government must deal with the lower threshold.
Ignoring the FATCA requirement can get a U.S. citizen in a lot of trouble. The law itself is about reporting, and you have to file even if your business or real estate deals have lost or are not producing income. The flat $10,ooo fine is a way of penalizing those who have earned nothing on their investments, but fail to disclose them in detail for the IRS.”
http://www.usexpatcostarica.com/corporate-ownership-of-home-triggers-fatca-requirement/
@FromTheWilderness, Sam Stein is the “Senior Politics Reporter”. He looks 5 years old and his reporting reflects a mind that is no more mature.
@Em,
I used to listen to the car stereo a lot while driving around Ottawa on my kid runs to schools, grocery shopping etc, but got out of the habit for the last couple months. With all the excitement today, and on my last car run for the day, I felt like I needed to distract myself with some music, so I turned on the radio, and first thing I heard was an inspirational tune that was previously posted here at Brock to get us all riled up before one of our public protests:
More cut and paste journalism. They didn’t read the article and went and found a video that they thought was related.
Topic is on The National tonight. The national is just now starting on CBC Newsworld.
So much misinformation and ignorance demonstrated by some of the comments on the CBC page. How can the Canadian government and the US government expect ordinary people to unravel this mess? The Federal government is useless and irresponsible if it can’t offer help and protection to its own Canadian citizens at this time.
And so hard to answer the question of those who have just had the lightbulb moment and are now just as fearful and anxious as we were when we first heard of all this.
I am so worried that there are now more lambs to the slaughter – to lose thousands signing up with incompetent or gouging professionals. Or rushing into the OVD and Streamlined without understanding how full of pitfalls and footfaults there are.
Link to great interview with Carol and with Allison Christians. Hard hitting focus on the US tax grab on Canadian registered savings RDSPs and RESPs especially. Makes the point that the US and Eritrea are the only ones to tax based solely on citizenship.http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2429927085/
Calgary411 Brocked it on the CBC TV news tonight. It was a great episode. The only slightly down point … it began with a sentence with “tax dodgers” in it. I always cringe when I hear that but it went really well after that. Could you take another thank you, kudos or bravo today, Carol? Too bad if not … you get all three from me. 🙂
Calgary,
After more than two years of this living nightmare, I am so delighted that your story is finally getting heard by those outside our little circle in hell. You did so well, explaining it clearly and calmly yet your emotional state comes through at the same time. I am sure this interview is going to make a difference.
Kudos to you my friend!