We Celebrate Human Rights Day, December 10th, 2013
…The UN calls on member-states, governments, and peoples to “intensify efforts to fulfill collective responsibility to promote and protect the rights and dignity of all people everywhere.”
…Each year, Human Rights Day is an opportunity for peoples, civic and nongovernment organizations around the globe to call for the full enjoyment of human rights by everyone. Activities this year highlight the achievements of past two decades in improving global human rights conditions, particularly in economic, social, cultural, civil, political, peace and security, business, environment, and developmental spheres and in protection of women, children, the elderly, persons with disabilities, migrants, and indigenous peoples.
From our wise and untiring advocate, Roger Conklin:
Using Roger’s words, today I have asked my Canadian government representatives:
Will Canada honour the human rights of ALL Canadians? Do ALL Canadians have the same rights that will not be waived?
From: calgary411
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 9:53 AM
To: Prime Minister Stephen Harper ; Minister James Flaherty ; Michelle.Rempel@parl.gc.ca ; Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca
Cc: Abby Deshman, CCLA ; scott.brison@parl.gc.ca ; Murray.Rankin@parl.gc.ca ; thomas.mulcair@parl.gc.ca ; Elizabeth.May@parl.gc.ca ; Ted.Hsu@parl.gc.ca
Subject: December 10, 2013 — Human Rights DayTo my Canadian Government representatives,
I hope you will find of use in your negotiations with the US government regarding possible waiving of rights of some Canadians for FATCA and US Citizenship-Based Taxation, the copied correspondence below regarding the day that honours Human Rights, tomorrow, December 10th.
What is this Canadian government’s stand on the human rights of ALL Canadians?
Are ALL Canadians protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (and not to be waived for some) as well as the UN Declaration of Universal Rights it has signed onto?
To: Roger Conklin
Roger, you have captured the problem very well. And, you are asking the right questions.
I thank you so very much for your wisdom and recognition of the problem – on behalf of not just this one person / one family (mine) who has realized the injustice of ‘entrapment’ into supposed US citizenship. I thank you on behalf of the many other persons / families there have to be out there, ones who need advocates and protection. They do not themselves have a voice to do this; the extra energy required; or, usually, funds for US tax law, immigration/nationality law or accounting professional assistance.
If nothing else, this entrapment is immoral. Are these not the very individuals and families that the UN Declaration of Universal Rights was created to protect from injustice?
I have been corresponding about this issue with my Canadian government representatives for a couple of years now. I want to know if the rights guaranteed under Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms are for ALL Canadians — or is my adult son, born in Canada, never registered with the US, never lived in the US, never had any benefit from the US, a second-class person in Canada. Are such persons, world-wide, not to be protected by the UN Declaration of Universal Rights? I will be asking again today.My appreciation
calgary411From: roger conklin
Monday, December 09, 2013 6:43 AM
Subject: December 10 is Recognized World Wide as Human Rights DayPerhaps we can use this day to point out the gross violation of the UN Declaration of Universal Rights, which authored by none other than Eleanor Roosevelt and adopted by the member nations, including the US, in the early days of the United Nations.
How can it be described as anything else but a violation of this Declaration when the United States, with its unique extraterritorial citizenship tax laws, subjects persons who were born in another country and are citizens of that other country, to US taxation if that person happens to have born to a US citizen parent?
Take the specific case of such a person who is disabled and receives disability benefits from the government of the country where he was born. Although these benefits, in money and in kind, may be tax free in the country of which that person is a citizen-from birth, they are taxed by the US as unearned income. The US government, through this citizenship based taxation, claims as its own the tax revenue it collects from these disability benefits, but returns absolutely nothing in the way of services or benefits. This is in reality the confiscation of funds provided by the foreign government to the disabled person which is a direct transfer from the treasury of that foreign country to the United States Treasury.
This is especially true since the person has never lived in (but has a few times visited the United States to visit relatives), has no US Social Security number and has never held a US passport or been provided with any benefit or service whatsoever by the U S Government. Additionally a person like this is required by US law to file US tax returns and additional forms as a US citizen resident abroad, for which he must employ and pay for expert professional assistance in order to insure that they are in compliance with US law, or be subject to a $25,000 penalty for failing to file a US tax return.
It is difficult for me to describe this in any other way other than a violation of the human rights of such a person. He has never held a US passport or had no part in the action which results in the US Government laying claim to taxation of his foreign tax free benefits which deprive him of funds upon which he depends for survival.
The person and those like him, because of his disability, is incapable of taking action on his own to renounce US citizenship. Likewise the US will not allow a parent, a guardian or a trustee who would have the responsibility under the laws of the country where he was born and of which he is a citizen for legal financial trusteeship of this disabled person, to renounce US citizenship on his behalf, even with a court order.
It seems to me that it should be a matter of great concern to the governments of the nations where such persons were born and of which they are citizens from birth that the US claims a portion of those persons’ government-provided disability benefits as belonging to the US Government. This is nothing less than the unwarranted and arbitrary confiscation of funds provided to that person by that country upon which he depends for survival.
Could this be the subject of protest of foreign governments against this action of the United States and also the basis for condemnation by the Security Council which, to me at least, seems to be a clear violation of the UN Declaration of Universal Human Rights? Would it be in order for the parents, guardians, trustees of such disabled persons to petition their own governments to protest this extraterritorial taxation action of the United States?
Can you imagine the howls of protest that would be heard in Washington if the governments of those nations whose citizens have become naturalized citizens of the US if those foreign governments exerted a claim to a portion of the US government-provided benefits of such dual-citizen persons who live in the United States such as unemployment benefits, earned income child credits, food stamps, Medicaid benefits, Medicare, Social Security disability payments and retirement benefits?
Here is official US Government website information on citizenship through parent(s) of a child born outside of the US.
US Citizenship Through Parents
The US is known as a “Land of Liberty.” The link below indicates that in 2011 some 694,193 persons became naturalized citizens of the United State. The US, unlike a few other countries, does not require that persons formally renounce their prior citizenship in order to become a naturalized citizen of the United States. Although a few countries do automatically revoke the citizenship of their citizens who become naturalized citizens of another country. Most other countries neither require that candidates for naturalization either renounce or automatically revoke the citizenship of their citizens who become naturalized citizens of another country. No other country “punishes” such persons by continuing to subject them to homeland income taxation if they become citizens of another country, nor do they subject their citizens to homeland taxation if they reside in another country without becoming citizens of that country.
Because of the unique citizenship based laws of the United States those US citizens who live in a different country or who become naturalized citizens of another country, continue to be subject to homeland (US) taxes, unless they formally renounce their US citizenship before a US consular official located outside of the United States and pay the necessary monetary fee and, under some circumstances also pay a significant additional exit tax.
The US is the only nation which unilaterally asserts the authority to ignore the sovereignty of other nations by levying and collecting taxes from persons residing in another country on income from sources outside of their homeland country of citizenship.
What surprises me most is that other nations passively accept this assertion of self-anointed extraterritorial taxation and the removal of funds from those countries for payment to the US Treasury. In fact the acknowledgement of this authority is included in the tax treaties executed between those countries and the United States.
It appears to me that until other countries formally object to this violation of their sovereignty that the US will continue to be under no pressure from those countries to cease and desist and adopt the residence-based taxation policy of all other nations.
Roger Conklin
Will Canada honour the human rights of ALL Canadians? Do ALL Canadians have the same rights that will not be waived?
Thank you.
calgary411
Will all other countries honour the human rights of their ‘US Person’ citizens and permanent residents?
I was just thinking of Roger Conklin and how I hadn’t come across him in awhile. I’m glad he’s still out there nailing it the way only he can.
@bubblebustin
Me too. Always a pleasure and enlightening to read his posts and comments.
@calgary & Roger
Very, very good post. Perhaps just hitting them with this info, over and over again will eventually wake them up to this gross violation of those who are disabled. Sometimes I still wonder, “am I understanding this correctly? How could anyone have such an unkind, uncaring and harsh attitude toward those who need to be helped and protected?”
I would definitely think twice before accepting, were they ever to repeal FATCA, adopt residence-based taxation, and offer our citizenships back, as this sort of attitude is just wrong.
What bothers me the most is there is no way out of this supposed US citizenship for ANY amount of money to be paid to any US tax or immigration / nationality lawyer. All other US Persons can actually renounce or relinquish for whatever obscene amount of money required for Consulate fees and US tax and accounting professional advice and back-filing. This smaller segment of total US Persons Abroad cannot have that same result.
It is essentially entrapment into supposed US citizenship, with more significantly no way out of the year-after-year-after-year-after-year cost of the help required for such a person to comply with the US IRS tax returns and Foreign Bank Account Reports (FBARs) for no actual taxes that will actually be owed to the US.
And, then, what does it mean for whatever inheritance that was planned and saved to help provide for the future of these persons when their parent has died — is that where the greatest amount will leave Canada or any other country in which such persons live and receive benefits? How much of that will the US hijack?
There is NO way I would ever want my US citizenship back from a country who does not find a way to release these individuals from entrapment of US citizenship. There is no one in the US who knows my son’s needs or the needs of any others like him than me or other parent(s), guardians or trustees of those individuals.
@calgary411 – At the rate the US is losing high worth citizens all that will be left is the poor to tax and they’ve got f**k all anyways. Nothing will change unless someone in the US starts feeling pain that can be transferred to the Congress from loss inward investment, US banks that don’t want to spend money upgrading IT to comply with DATCA US companies losing business to non-FATCA countries because customers don’t want to open bank accounts that are FATCA compliant while European countries have no such restrictions.
It’s all drip drip drip drip adding up to something bigger but as we all know Congress is stone deaf. All this will be coupled by the fact people figuring out ways to avoid FATCA with crooked bankers, phony CLN’s, or administrative errors that don’t get caught for decades later.
The US is kidding themselves that data integrity is going to be 100%. It won’t. And there’s the IRS who won’t have enough auditors to follow up each ‘tax evader’ abroad who will encounter wrong addresses, no phone numbers, and Americans abroad who will tell an IRS agent abroad to fu*k off at the door step. And this is cost effective money to go after? Or are they going to leave it to just arresting people at the border for not filing a 1040 when they owe zero taxes or very little. It’s mad.
@ Calgary You are so right. I see in your posts the frustration of being guilty of nothing. I think once we are able to educate others and they find their voice, we might get the attention this so badly needs. You people on this site are an inspiration to the WORLD. I do think a lot of people in the world are looking here for information and guidance. There is only one answer, the US really needs to re-think the outcome and the fallout of FATCA before it is too late. The banks and other government have got to be thinking….. whats next? Is the US going to impose future hardships on other until the US governments issues at home are solved? Incredible. @ Don, you hit the nail on the head!
@NativeCanadian -you are so right. Yet the US is totally dependent on imported commodities (oil, hydro electricity from Canada, softwoods from Canada, metals and ore from around the world), manufactured goods (cars, tools and dies, electronic boards and iPhones, toys for kids and adults, equipment of all sorts, household goods, electronics, pots, pans, plastics of all sorts), tourists (Snowbirds, Europeans, Asians, South Americans, West Indians, Indians from the sub continent, Native American peoples from both north and south of the US borders) all of whom spend large sums of money in the US and of whom many spend extended time in the US in holiday homes and so on boosting the US economy every year), investment (due to the US being the issuer of the world’s reserve currency and due to Wall Street being the most active market place for stocks and Chicago being the largest commodity futures market) …. and all this can change quickly if the rest of the world just say ENOUGH already. The US consumer might see a massive fall off in job availability and EMPTY store shelves no matter how much money one might have. Some of us in other countries have experienced empty stores and rationing lines to get such simple basics as rice and soap and know how painful that experience can be. That is what caused Jamaica for example to start to retrace its steps back from the Democratic Socialist precipice. Sadly however, 10 or 20 years of living under that sort of regime leaves a legacy of hardship that endures for multiple generations. The deep cultural shifts for survival existence are lasting in the communal mind. Jamaica has still not recovered from our experience of the 1970s. I suspect that with the Just in Time inventory systems being operated by large retailers like Walmart, even a month or three hiatus would find the citizens of the US clamoring for change as hourly news casts announce shortages of item after item including food. US Homelanders are spoiled rotten and mostly could not conceive an existence where survival trumps money and where one cannot buy stuff no matter how many credit cards are in your pocket – where the store shelves are empty. The US is using blunt instruments like FATCA to batter the rest of the world – the world needs to stand up and say STOP !
Slightly off topic, but here is another journalist that understands. While proposing emigration to decrease US unemployment, in the end he mentions “And let’s keep them abroad by abandoning the system that makes them pay taxes to the United States on top of the taxes they pay to their host countries.”
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/12/04/linked_out_send_americas_unemployed_abroad
@Patricia, re; “…There is NO way I would ever want my US citizenship back from a country who does not find a way to release these individuals from entrapment of US citizenship. There is no one in the US who knows my son’s needs or the needs of any others like him than me or other parent(s), guardians or trustees of those individuals.”…
So true. The hypocrisy and violations of human rights in this and other areas by the US is staggering. I want no part of it. I wouldn’t take back my US citizenship if they gave it to me on a silver platter.
Thanks, Shadow Raider. It’s a good read.
I’ve just read a very good aritcle of a journalist who gets the big picture (doesn’t discuss any of the most vulnerable disabled US Person abroad, but gets it): http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/congress/item/17134-amid-irs-abuse-record-number-of-americans-give-up-u-s-citizenship.
…and Roger’s comment regarding this otherwise excellent piece:
@Calgary411
Well, almost. I wish these journalists would stop giving the impression that it’s wealthy Americans fleeing the US who are renouncing. It poisons the conversation and tiresome to have to keep correcting them, as “Lea” has done so well.
@Shadow Raider
Good find. Thanks
With respect to Human Rights day…. Everyone here on this site and all others who find the strength and need to be involved……. you are all doing what Nelson Mandela did in his lifetime. I salute everyone here for standing up for what is right and recognizing the continuous suffering that many hard working honest people are going through at the hands of Obama and the USA. This needs to be front page news. where the hell is the media? For the life of me, I cannot understand why this incredible breach of human rights from Fatca and the pain and suffering it is causing goes unnoticed to the mainstream media. I am just beginning to see why other groups resort to protests that are unpleasant to others to get them to notice. What do I want for Christmas? To see my wife happy again,,, OBAMA ARE YOU LISTENING???
@NativeCanadian
I share your frustration, as a great many of us do. It’s as though there’s a conspiracy of silence going on. I can’t help but feel though that at some point the you know what will hit the fan. Thank goodness there are others here who’s presence tell us we aren’t losing our minds!
Correction; the comment I referred to above was a quote from @calgary411 http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/12/09/human-rights-day-december-10-2013/comment-page-1/#comment-785839 , not @Patricia.
If the rights and best interests of the vulnerable and children abroad that the US deems to be ‘US taxable persons’ are not respected by the US, then it just goes to show how despicable those ‘lawmakers’ are. And in Canada, via signing a FATCA IGA the Harper government signs over the rights of the vulnerable – Canadian dependents with disabilities, and minors in order to appease the US. The US is a predator, and does not stop at taxing and penalizing even the vulnerable in Canada and ‘abroad’ via their RESPs, RDSPs, TFSAs, disability grants, and the equivalent in other countries etc. How low will the US go next in turning its hypocrisy and aggression against those living legally and lawfully outside its borders – in Canada and elsewhere?
Happy to know that the new multimillionaire head of the IRS wants us to trust the IRS. I put greater trust in the information shared here, and our knowledge of just how untrustworthy and unfairly they have and are still intent on treating those living abroad and fully compliant where we pay taxes in full, and receive actual services.
…”In every area of the IRS, taxpayers need to be confident that they will be treated fairly, no matter what their background or their affiliations,” Koskinen told the Senate Finance Committee. “Public trust is the IRS’ most important and valuable asset.”…. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/irs-nominee-goes-senate-panel-face-questions-health-082031114–finance.html
………”John Koskinen, who served as the non-executive chairman at housing finance giant Freddie Mac in the wake of the financial crisis, told the Senate Finance Committee that he will work with the panel to make sure the Internal Revenue Service is the “most effective, well-run and admired agency in government.””…
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/10/obamas-irs-nominee-john-koskinen-vows-restore-publ/
He can start by abolishing CBT, and releasing all those in the OVD and Streamlined who live and pay taxes to their home country of residence – which is NOT the US.
My idea for a protest sign and march it in front of the Houses of Parliament.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-p2Amj28iwYk/UqgOLPWCW6I/AAAAAAAABmc/LEVpnVCtwLY/w1000-h654-no/AmericanDefense.jpg
This royally pissed off a few of my DemocRat friends on my facebook.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-d5SNAu37uVU/Ua8EQbuEdBI/AAAAAAAABmk/Xmx224KqDog/w605-h328-no/Obama_BS.jpg
…and here’s another one.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4zQ_lXC3BL0/URqQ8G3UOCI/AAAAAAAAAeA/FL30yQRIdUU/w190-h265-no/ObamaSaysWholeWorldUSA.jpg
Thought you might like the US version of “Chemical Jack Lew”.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RnukPrZdF1g/UcjusI0m5dI/AAAAAAAABf8/L8ToqGqBH2g/w444-h331-no/Baghdad_Jack.jpg
@The Animal
Very imaginative.
Thanks for standing up for your wife and the rest of us! I wish there were more like you in Canada and elsewhere. Maybe you should start a Facebook support group and call it “Married to the American ball and chain of US taxation”, or something like that.
Speaking of human rights, I contacted the Canadian Human Rights Commission (CHRC) some weeks ago and finally got a call back today. According to CHRC, there is probably very little they can do if FATCA legislation passes in Canada. It falls out of their jurisdiction because it is an act of Parliament. The lady I spoke to recommended the following, which I believe most of us have already done.
1. Contact your local MP
2. Contact the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
3. Contact the CRA Ombudsman
The CHRC representative called me back a few days ago, but seemed to know very little about FATCA. She said the got her information from Google. She called me back this morning after discussing the issue with her team leader. If a FATCA/IGA agreement is signed, she said our best defense is to launch a Charter Challenge. I’m not sure if that means “class action lawsuit”. She said I could get more info on Charter Challenges on the Heritage Canada website.
“Birds of a feather flock together”
Obama’s top pick for American Ambassador to Canada is Bruce Heyman:
-Chicago investment banker
-“power fundraising force for the President”
-managing director of private wealth management at Goldman Sachs.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-ambassador-to-canada-nominee-to-face-senate-hearing-after-lengthy-delay/article15867851/
Thanks from me also, The Animal.
I’ve just put my thoughts of my family’s situation (and it will be the same for yours) into a DRAFT document. It’s a process to help me understand all of this in my own head as I continue to live with it and as a means to perhaps better explain it to my government representatives and anyone in the U.S. who might be able to do anything about the absurdity. Citizenship-based taxation is evil, especially to those who are entrapped into U.S. citizenship. ENTRAPMENT of Persons with ‘Mental Incapacity’ into U.S. Citizenship
I do thank all who visit here and have read my many words on this for your understanding of the problem. It is actually all that any more keeps me sane as I wait to see the Government of Canada results of negotiation with the U.S. on an intergovernmental agreement for FATCA.
A friend sent these links to me with his Christmas card.He says the bad guys are not misguided or making mistakes. They have an agenda. That’s why good people can’t believe it. Now I get it. You can’t trust the Priest, you can’t trust the bank, you can’t trust government. You can only trust each other!
Watch legislature discussion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9BUy9dwiqU
About redford attending this group. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBypAFQ3ZCk
The House of Commons Christmas break arrived early this year, and MPs return January 27.
Does anyone know what the means in terms of a FATCA IGA, or to the order papers that Hsu and Brison submitted (Hsu’s questions were due to be answered this Friday, and Brisons next Wednesday)?
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/12/10/house-of-commons-christmas-break_n_4421914.html
@animal, love the sign. We need more visuals for sure!
@calgary411, I am with you. Though I have exercised my human and international right to choose my home country and allegiance, and have chosen therefore to be no longer a US citizen; I and others here will not abandon those like your son, who are still bound to the US against their will and against their best interests for family and individual security and economic survival, and our fellows around the world who are being extraterritorially forced to fund US domestic interests without volition, recourse, consultation, or benefit, and in serious conflict with internationally recognized human rights http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ .
Looks like they then will have an extension on the time allowed for answers. I hope Finance Minister Flaherty and Prime Minister Harper have thorough answers for all the questions of MPs Ted Hsu and Scott Brison and those answers will be among the first orders of Canada’s House of Commons business in the New Year. More cooling of our heels in the meantime.