Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

86 thoughts on “TD vows to make FATCA a “comfortable experience” for “impacted customers””

  1. @Mike,

    The banks are not being forced by our government into accepting FATCA. Its the other way around. The banks, along with the IRS, are the ones forcing our government into accepting FATCA. We have no choice, remember?

  2. I guess in the bankers eyes as well as the governments eyes…. Sacrifice a few Canadians for the better of our financial status. Very simple for them. What about those thrown to the lions…..

  3. @All
    We must continue to be persistent. I really believe there are ripples being made and more people are being show through our persistence. Things don’t happen over night. It took years for good things to happen. Let us keep hacking through the jungle of lies and indifference to expose FATCA for what it really is. Every person told will tell another person and soon there will many of us.

    Yes iii

  4. @Atticus,
    re; ..”I don’t want to hear about the “responsibilities” of citizenship”…
    Yes, I want to hear the government/s in question talk about whether they are meeting their responsibilities to us too.

    From Canada, I want to hear how our Charter and Constitutional rights are being protected – the exact same as any other Canadian citizen and resident taxpayer. How is Canada protecting the rights of those Canadians deemed incompetent, who just happen to have had a US birthplace or US parent – and who are then claimed as ‘US taxable’ for life? How is Canada protecting the rights of those families and business partners who must have joint accounts with another Canadian taxpayer deemed by the US to be a ‘US taxable person’?

    I pay my taxes, I am a lawful citizen, I am ‘compliant’, I participate in the civil life of my home community and country, I have met my ‘responsibilities’. It is the governments in question who are ducking theirs. Otherwise we would not have a situation in which only entities and not citizens and taxpayers are given access to the ears of the federal government, and entitled to information re the FATCA negotiations – Canadian banks/FIs are being kept apprised behind the scenes, and claim for certain that an IGA will be signed, while the actual owners of the assets in question, and those whose savings and identity data are at risk have to rely on information gleaned from the internet. Banks and FIs are kept apprised, while the Canadian taxpaying and voting public who actually OWN the affected assets will be told only days or weeks afterwards. See: …”…On May 2, Canadian Central was told by Finance Canada that negotiations are continuing; it will be several weeks before further information is available; and a public announcement may follow many days or weeks after officials conclude their negotiations. …” http://www.cucentral.ca/Connections/FATCA%20Anxiety%20Increasing%20FINAL.pdf

    If the US government was meeting its responsibilities to those it claims abroad, we would not have a situation in which our local legal bank (accounts earned and held in Canada where we are citizens and legal tax residents), are treated harshly and punitively by the US, unlike the treatment of the local legal equivalent accounts of a US resident.

    Whenever the US Treasury and IRS mention ‘US taxable persons’ “no matter where in the world they may reside”, I also want to hear what the US is doing to assure us abroad of the same exact rights AND exactly equivalent services enjoyed by ‘homeland’ brethren (including US residents who are NOT citizens). Note that even on a very minimal level, the IRS never did even bother to restore those in-person help sessions at consulates and the embassy in Canada – even as it bangs the FBAR and FATCA drum louder. I doubt we will ever see any ‘services’. Obama and the Democrats promised to “….. dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans can do their taxes in less than five minutes. ” http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=78283 Except for those 6-7 millions living and earning and paying taxes outside the US of course.

    But, we were told that “..Obama understands the special concerns and issues of Americans living abroad and will seek to address these as president. …”……..As president, Obama will work to establish a direct dialogue with Americans abroad…” http://obama.3cdn.net/610c7f29ee85b124a3_3cm6bxltu.pdf If that is the case, why so few Democrats signed on to support the creation of a Presidential Commission to hear from those abroad http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:HR00597:@@@P ? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/us/politics/presidential-commission-sought-on-us-expatriates.html?_r=0 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr597/text

  5. @northernstar,
    re; “We must continue to be persistent. I really believe there are ripples being made and more people are being show through our persistence”

    You and so many others here at IBS are models of that persistence. Follow the northern star!

  6. Obama’s promises aren’t worth a tinkers damn! None of them and certainly not those made to Americans abroad. In all my years of living in Canada no other POTUS has done more to damage Americans living abroad than he has with one fell swoop signing on to FATCA and encouraging it.

    They have passed legislation that harms our families and afterwards said they are going to set up a commission to study the impact of the legislation on Americans Abroad. Really? Why not set up the commission to study expats FIRST and then pass legislation that works but, does not harm innocent families? Are we a psychology experiment?

    When I look back at everything in my life I’ve done as an expat to the good and for the good of the U.S. it got to the point after FATCA to start asking myself “What have you done for me lately?” The answer was nothing save the kind hearted employees at the consulate who understand this disgusting situation.

    As far as Canada goes we do have Mr. Hsu, Bison, Irwin and the like. But Canada promised me I was protected under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I was not told I was going to be a second class Canadian with different rules applied to my family under that Charter or under our privacy laws.

    Both these governments have a responsibility.

    As far as the U.S. goes they certainly know they failed in their responsibility to tell people about FBAR for decades. They failed to inform people of their duties to file forms on zero tax owed. They knew that but, it was okay for them to fail as no penalties were applied to their failures. Then they came out with onerous and threatening published releases believing that expats are all so evil they couldn’t simply inform us and we’d comply. No they had to set up a drag net and punish us with the burden of proof on us. This was a horrible and wrong headed approach.

    I got sick and tired of being suspect just because I didn’t live in the U.S. and now Canada needs to step up and tell us whether or not all Canadians are the same under the law or not.

  7. @Atticus Still no reply from Flaherty to the Simple Question.

    Others may want to consider e-mailing him with the Simple Quesion and see if it prompts a reply if numerous people ask it.

  11. Maybe they’ll just start importing FATCA “compliance” employees from the U.S. to do this dirty work. After all those people would have no qualms about violating Canada’s charter, would see FATCA as a good thing, would be able to spy on Canadian employees to make sure the rest of the bank was doing their job to “comply” I wouldn’t put it past the U.S. to suggest it would be best to do things this way claiming no Canadian could actually do it whole heartedly or understand fully the importance of this U.S. law.

    btw, I really despise that word “comply” in this instance. It brings to mind pictures of being stretching on a rack or something similar. Or perhaps Paul Newman being told in “Cool Hand Luke” to “get your mind right, boy!” etc.

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  16. Pingback: A German Bank explains #FATCA to its customers who are #Americansabroad | U.S. Persons Abroad - Members of a Unique Tax, Form and Penalty Club

  18. Pingback: The Isaac Brock Society | $90,375 more needed to make the February 1 2015 payment for Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit/ Il nous reste 90 375 $ à ramasser pour notre poursuite judiciaire

  19. I saw that TD is advertising for a job entitled “Fulfillment Officer “, someone to; “Manage customer escalations from the FATCA help desk”. The Fulfillment Officer is part of “The Regulatory Fulfillment team within Banking Services [who] is responsible for reviewing FATCA documentation to ensure compliance on new account and maintenance accounts is fulfilled as per the FATCA regulation.” and,
    “completes the following compliance activities:
    Documentation review and validation
    Customer Follow-up
    Manage customer escalations from the FATCA help desk”

    Does that sound to you as if TD expects that FATCA will be a comfy experience for their accountholders?

  20. Should be the “help FATCA desk”. Interesting term “escalations”. Escalating customers into FATCA is the kind of help valued customers don’t need.

  21. I shudder to think what kind of advice these “fulfillment officers” are going to give their customers. I believe they’ve created a new kind of condor, Badger.

  22. WE should be hired for these positions within FIs. WE seem to know who is and isn’t a “US person” better than the banks.

  23. Some 2011 TD comfier FATCA suggestions – for the historic record – note, no mention of the plight of the accountholders, fellow citizens and taxpayers;

    Thanks to deckard for this very valuable blog entry:
    from https://expatsinca.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/td-bank-weighs-in-on-fatca/
    “….. In sum, financial institutions could be placed in the untenable position of choosing among violating local law to avoid withholding on their US assets, violating their FATCA agreement to avoid violating local law, or electing not to enter into a FATCA agreement and liquidating their U.S.-source assets.

    Van Dijk also expressed concern over the cost to banks to bring themselves into compliance with FATCA. Between changing data collection policies, employee training, and customer communication, he estimates a cost of over $100 million over the first five years to TD’s retail banking. He estimates that the total cost to Canadian financial institutions may be as high as $1 billion in the first five years, and that the global costs for compliance are “disproportionate to FATCA’s expected benefits.”

    Read the full letter here.”
    http://www.bakerlaw.com/files/Uploads/Documents/FATCA/Comment%20Letters/TD_Bank_Group_04042011.pdf

  24. Thought I’d add a recent comment about the TD “comfy experience” to this thread;
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/09/19/question/comment-page-9/#comment-5864235

    “..TD did not seem to mind in the least that they were losing a long time Canada Trust customer. In fact, I think they are relieved not to have to deal with me on FATCA. They never asked me where I was born, but my Branch Manager and other staff were aware that I am originally from the U.S.

    Of course, I have been very visible locally and nationally about FATCA so I think “America’s Most Convenient Bank” simply did not want the hassle of dealing with me when they get around to formally asking The Question.

    Their Customer Support people refused to tell me why TD will not accept a “reasonable explanation” of why a customer does not have a CLN as contained in the FATCA Regs…..”……

    Those of us who have CLNs should boycott TD in protest. I could bank there, but refuse to put my money with an institution that demands our ‘freedom papers’.

  25. To add to the TD “comfortable” banking claim, I know an elderly widow who has been in Canada over 50 years and has been a Canadian citizen for 41 years was terrorized by TD Canada Trust. They insisted she contact Price Waterhouse and become compliant.

    I pleaded with her not to file. I tried telling her she is NOT a US person.I begged her to talk to John Richardson. But PW convinced her she was some kind of criminal and charged her thousands of dollars to tell the IRS she owed them nothing.

    She is so stressed and anxious now that she will not even speak with me. Her new neighbours are my old neighbours. They tell me she is very anxious, stressed and depressed over this. She is planning to give most of her money to her church and preferred charities so the IRS cannot seize her bank account or assets. Neither TD nor PW have told her that IRS cannot simply waltz into Canada and do that.

    The London session on April 23 is just a few blocks from her home, so I hope she will attend, but I don’t know if she will.

    This is a woman who does not even own a television!

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