“Mark Twain” has provided information for the interesting material in this post.
Roger Villere: As Chairman of LAGOP I agree we need to introduce a RNC resolution during our winter meeting to address this ! I will be looking to make this resolution on behalf of the 7.5 million Americans living overseas.
Related comment on Republicans Overseas Facebook page:
The enactment of the FATCA is a good example of taxation without representation for U.S. expats. RO already asked RNC to introduce and pass a RNC resolution during their winter meeting in DC next January expressing concerns that American citizens abroad are forced to choose between paying more taxes and abandoning their citizenship under the act.
Mr. Villere also has a comment on the Facebook page:
I believe FATCA is making it harder for Americans abroad to open new bank accounts. We should be helping small business, not making it harder to do international business.
Republicans Overseas (Facebook)
Republicans Overseas Inc. Established to Speak on Public Policy
A new political organization has been formed to facilitate the involvement of Republican citizens overseas in the political process of the United States.
Republicans Overseas Inc. was registered at the IRS on Sept. 18 as a Section 527 organization. The officers include Bruce Ash (chairman), Solomon Yue (vice chairman), Helen Van Etten (secretary) and James Bopp Jr. as treasurer and custodian of books.
The filing indicates the corporation was “organized to provide an organization, with chapters throughout the world and a headquarters in the United States, to facilitate involvement of Republican citizens overseas in the political process of the United States. In addition, the Corporation will voice the concerns of Republican citizens overseas in the public policy debates in the United States consistent with Republican principles.”
A spokesperson for the Republican National Committee stated Republicans Overseas was not affiliated with the RNC. The RNC already has a Republicans Abroad organization.
Another Republicans Overseas Facebook comment give a link to a submission to the Ways and Means Committee:
“In this analysis, you see that this (overseas) target family requires 1324 calculated hours of preparation time per year, with 132 pages of forms submitted per year, 789 pages of instructions to read. When this taxpayer gives up and says it is impossible, he is subject to fines of $11,190,000.
The analysis shows that the tax reporting burden and penalty structure for US citizens abroad is seriously flawed and needs to be deleted.
No other country in the world taxes its citizens living outside of its borders”
Mark Twain also gives:
In bipartisan spirit:
Democrats Abroad: About the FBAR/FATCA Task Force
Although the requirement for Americans to report accounts held in foreign financial institutions (the FBAR report) has existed for many years, new and more invasive reporting requirements were imposed in 2009 with the passage of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). FATCA is the result of Congressional and IRS efforts to improve tax compliance among U.S. citizens, both living in the US and living abroad, with foreign financial assets.
The majority of us living and working around the world understands and supports our government’s efforts to close the loopholes that enable tax avoidance schemes. FATCA and the regulations established to comply with it do not, however, sufficiently distinguish between those Americans with foreign accounts that live within the US and those with foreign accounts who legitimately reside offshore. Overseas Americans have the same needs as stateside Americans for access to basic financial instruments of personal banking, business banking, investments, and savings, based in our country of residence. Living and banking offshore does not equate to tax avoidance.
And it’s taken them until NOW to wake up to all this FATCrap? Many of us on this website, at ACA, and elsewhere around the world, woke up to it more than two years ago.
This reminds me of a funny photo and caption I saw decades ago when still in the US, depicting a very wrinkled old man, toothless and looking like he was in his 80s, wearing an Air Force helmet, grinning at the camera, with the caption reading “Sleep well, America; your Air National Guard is awake tonight!” It was intended as a spoof of a more straight-laced but poorly-thought-out marketing campaign by the Air National Guard (and yes I remember that George W. Bush spent time in the Air National Guard protecting America from the horrible depredations of a possible air attack from Fidel Castro’s “air force” during Vietnam years).
Wakey wakey, Dems and Repubs Abroad, and smell the “coffee.”
Well about freaking time they start trying to represent their members.
@I came across Dems abroad in 2008 on Obama’s inauguratio night. I never knew they existed and signed up for emails. One notified me about FATCA and a meeting about. This is where i came to the conclusion that they were not for permanent ex pats.
Democrats Abroad needs to finally wake up and smell the rotting roses about the Administration and Obama and FATCA. When it finally hits home these Technocrats will apply the screws to every US Person regardess of the fact such expat may be a Democrat. By way of full disclosure I am an Independent – I am repulsed by both parties – but the Republicans at least have some of it right when it comes to FATCA.
I have sent three different emails to Republicans Abroad Canada about FATCA and citizen-based taxation. Not a single response.
This Republican organization in Canada is still asleep. Perhaps others will have better luck.
The RAC mission statement says absolutely nothing about representing the interests of expats. It is solely about promoting the Republican party to Americans abroad. As such, it appears to be 100% fracking useless. The fact that they couldn’t even be bothered to respond to your 3(!) emails bears this out.
Perhaps we’ll have better luck with Republicans Overseas – people are at least talking about FATCA on their facebook page.
The organizers of Democrats Abroad in Canada are and were fully aware of the true gravity of the situation several years ago – as was clearly evident during at least one of their US tax information sessions, in which people in the audience were clearly shocked and distraught. Some had already had firsthand experiences in the OVDI. Others were trying to figure out how to become compliant, but could not afford the accounting and legal fees. The DA organizers did not offer information about the Taxpayer’s Advocate. Their main concern appeared to be support for Obama no matter what the suffering of those abroad.
This was prior to the last election. Those DA organizers would have been totally aware of the glaring change in the Obama platform from 2008 where those abroad were first courted by being named a group of ‘special interest’ whose concerns Obama and the Democrats promised to listen to and represent just the same as for homelanders, and the next election, where that facade was dropped. All DA pretence of having any concern about those abroad was confined to fund raising – like the sessions hosted by Hollywood actors and celebrities at locations in Switzerland. Swiss money from Swiss bank accounts and ‘foreign accounts’ was no problem as long as it was going into the Democrat’s election warchest. Ex. ..”Here in Switzerland, hundreds of Americans donated to the Obama campaign during the two recent fundraisers held in Zurich and Geneva….” from ‘Friday, September 21, 2012 Obama fundraiser in Montreux’ see http://blog.democrats.ch/2012/09/obama-fundraiser-in-montreux-september.html
The recent DA FATCA/FBAR taskforce statements clearly show that the Democrats resident in the ‘homeland’ and the IRS, Treasury and Obama don’t give a rat’s ass about even the DA and Obama supporters;
October 2013 …”Since the last update at our London AGM in March there is little to report that might offer some significant relief to those of us still burdened by US tax filing requirements and the angst that has been created by them….” from https://www.democratsabroad.org/group/da-international/fbarfatca-task-force-page
“Angst”? How about sleeplessness, depression, anger, resentment, fear, anxiety, significant losses of legal local already-taxed-once savings paid to US tax and legal professionals, inability to hold bank accounts or Canadian registered savings accounts? How about those held in limbo – either trying to see a way forward, or waiting in the optout purgatory?
If the DA faithfuls have nothing optimistic to report to the faithful, then what? If they are so frank now as to say:
“……..Because of FATCA overseas Americans now find our financial lives exposed to a degree of scrutiny – under threat of severe penalties, fines and even threats of imprisonment – to which Americans without foreign financial assets are not subjected. The impact on the personal affairs and privacy overseas Americans has in many cases been very serious, including –
An escalation in tax filing complexity and associated costs;
The inability to open new financial accounts or forced closure of existing accounts;
Assets shared with non-national spouses subject to IRS scrutiny;
Exorbitant and confiscatory penalties for non-compliance;
And finally, the unjust assumption that Americans living abroad are tax cheats and/or money launderers.”
Well, if even the faithful and devoted who are tasked with supporting the Democrats and Obama are now that candid, then what conclusions should the rest of us draw?
I think I might have been at that meeting. That meeting cost us each 25. The room was packed. I could feel anger and fear. You just wrote such truth. I had an intense feeling that they were in it for the money. They got tax guys wanting $1,000 a year. No one suggested renouncing. I never contributed to any us election . On my emails from DA it was just about send money. That meeting had me leaving with a lot of hatred for the USA. I don’t give a rat’s ass for DA.
I feel so fortunate to have found Brock and Maple Sandbox. I found information and support. I am looking forward to this week. You think we will see any DA members at the protest?
I like that the DA task force has clearly described the problems we face. I am very happy that they (finally!) come out and state an opinion on official Da “letterhead,” as it were.
That said, this better not be a mere sop. I want to see some concrete action from them before I will give them any support, either financial or even by voting. I want to see that they have testified at Treasury or Congressional hearings, that they have lobbied at Democratic Party gatherings, that they are actively lobbying to get the Democratic Party platform to include positions that address our concerns, such as Residence Based Taxation or any of the other tax-related proposals put forth by ACA and others. I want a list of Congressional representatives whom they have contacted and convinced to introduce or sign onto some bills that would make a significant difference. I want to see some actual work being done, and not just, “we will keep an eye out and let you know if it looks like it is going to rain again.” Then and only then will I participate.
I agree with your points.
DA must walk the talk. I am not holding my breathe.
@northernstar, I wonder what happened to all those people. The room was packed.
I was totally disgusted with the DA. And their later comments about it not being a ‘good time’ to press the US re FATCA and CBT and FBARs until after the election – and to concentrate on getting Obama back in. Like people could just say to the IRS, ‘sorry, its a bad time, I’ll get back to you after we re-elect Obama’. And then there was the DA comment that the compliance costs and burdens were just the ‘price’ those outside the US had to pay for the ‘privilege’ of living abroad: “…..While using a tax preparer can be burdensome, and while there are tax-filing sharks in the international waters (beware!), we may have to conclude that IRS compliance will likely involve a financial cost associated with the privilege of living abroad.” from the letter by Democrats Abroad FBAR/FATCA Task Force Joe Green, Stanley Grossman, Maureen Harwood, Carmelan Polce, Maya Samara, Joe Smallhoover http://www.americansinindonesia.org/content/progress-changing-fatcafbar-rules
Of the 20 years that I was a democrat-leaning US citizen, the democrats once did something for me. They modified the donations page so that Americans abroad could make campaign contributions, after I complained that I attemped to donate $1000 but couldn’t since it wouldn’t accept my address. That’s the most that they will ever do for expats.
Yes, i vividly remember that “privilege” line, which really burned my britches. Gee, thanks for the privilege of being allowed to live in my own darn home. But hang on, if there is a privilege being extended, surely it is being extended by the government where I live, not by the US? The only privilege the US is in any position to extend is the right to go live there some day, should I ever want to do so. In the end it is a personal decision as to how much abusive treatment one is willing to endure to preserve that Right of Return. But to cast it that the privilege lies in being allowed OUT of the country is a disturbingly backwards formulation.
Reading these comments leads me to believe that you don’t understand what Democrats Abroad (Democrats Abroad AKA The StepFord Wives) http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/12/19/democrats-abroad-are-like-the-stepford-wives/ and Republicans Abroad (The Non-Fair Weather Sailors) actually are.
They are simply groups representing either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party abroad. Again, they represent the parties. As such they have NO INTEREST whatsoever in assisting or representing Americans Abroad as individuals. Reread Badger’s comment above (and others) on this point. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/11/09/republican-and-democrat-organizations-for-us-citizens-abroad-wakening-up-to-fatca/comment-page-1/#comment-647126
As members of Political parties they engage in partisan warfare on two levels:
Warfare Level 1: The Democratic and Republican parties collectively wage war on the on U.S. citizens in the Homeland. Democracy American style is simply a game where each side attempts to enrich itself at the expense of the general public.
Warfare Level 2: After having conspired with each other to benefit themselves at the expense of the American people, they they then wage war against each other.
Most of the country’s problems and I think are problems are the direct result of the political parties and the overly partisan nature of American politics. I have long believed that a great step forward would be to make the executive branch of the Government (President, Treasury, etc) a non-partisan position.
(I recommend Jesse Ventura’s latest book about Demogrips and Rebloodlicans.)
So, I ask you fellow Americans Abroad, why would you expect help from partisan groups whose mission is to wage war on you anyway?
Okay, okay. For those who say “this can’t be true”. How about this then? On a “kinder level” The Stepford Wives and Republicans abroad are are social clubs comprised of transplanted homelanders, waiting to return to the homeland. I come across these people ALL THE TIME in business and socially. For the most part they either don’t believe or claim to NOT believe what the U.S. has become and is now about. “What OUR government is doing that? No, it can’t be true.”
Another way of viewing them is that are American citizens, tolerating life outside the homeland while they want to return to the “comforts” of home.
In the same way that Fitzgerald in his 1926 story “The Rich Boy” says:
“Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me.”
The Stepford Wives and Republicans Abroad are different from you and me.
To put it simply:
They are transplanted Homelanders – They are dying to get back to Form Nation – they see themselves as part of the United States. They are NOT part of the countries where they reside. They probably think they should get a credit against their Canadian taxes for the Obamacare surtax, the taxation of their principal residences, mutual funds, etc. They believe they should be paying taxes to the United States and NOT to their country of residence. They might be unhappy with the compliance costs and all the forms, but they believe in the righteousness and justice of the United States. They intuitively understand (even if they can’t articulate it) that they, as Homelanders Abroad, are Trojan Horse soldiers who exist for the purpose of enabling the interests of Form Nation Abroad.
Others live permanently outside the United States. The truth is that they have few ties to the U.S. and are under attack because of some previous tie to the country. They accept that they should pay taxes to our country of residence. They recognize that FATCA is bad for their countries of residence. They recognize that citizenship-based taxation is a way to force other countries to “pay tribute to the United States”.
In the same way that’s a mistake to equate Americans abroad with tax cheats, it’s a mistake to think that those legally defined as Americans Abroad are somehow the same.
For those who like lists and categories, the time has come to distinguish between:
“Homelanders Abroad” and the rest.
Finally, these “Homelanders Abroad” are fools if they think they will not be destroyed in the inevitable “round up” of those suspected to be U.S. persons!
Can’t argue with it.
Repugs abroad and Demonicrits abroad send out the packaged propoganda from the Wash. factory. Indeed, they have no other interest than….
THis Repugs Overseas thing was created on the side–not visbly connected to Repugs Abroad and is intending to use the issue to capture an uncaptured voting segment. Whether they are useful as a real representative of human beings is measured by whether they create any media positive to us.
They need to be pushed to show results prior to the 2014 Beauty pageants.
Otherwise, their primary focus is to raise Money by giving the same promise that the great Obummer gave in 2008.
If anyone has a few billion in loose change they can purchase a FATCA repeal bill..
Has anyone thought to invite Democrats Abroad and Republicans Abroad to the protests this week?
IBS is still on Daylight Savings time. I just noticed.
I Think I am announcing my candidacy first for Congressional Representative of Wyoming for 2014. After that, I will run for president in 2016. That way I will assure that one candidate will speak for US Citizens abroad.
Good luck. I wonder if you can get Dick Cheney to help. 🙂
There is a hostile invasion of our IBS. Check out side bar of latest comments.
I’ve just marked and moved to Spam a large quantity of “junk” that got through. Then went in to delete them all from Spam. I sure hope nothing legitimate got moved with the process. I don’t think so.
Changed to standard time — thanks!
“In the same way that’s a mistake to equate Americans abroad with tax cheats, it’s a mistake to think that those legally defined as Americans Abroad are somehow the same.
For those who like lists and categories, the time has come to distinguish between:
“Homelanders Abroad” and the rest.
Finally, these “Homelanders Abroad” are fools if they think they will not be destroyed in the inevitable ’round up’ of those suspected to be U.S. persons!”
I don’t know how productive it is to create a sharp dividing line between short-timers and lifers. I mean, there are all kinds of intermediate stages, and as you point out, even the short-timers are going to get whacked by the same policies. Probably more productive to be inclusive and educating than to fall into in-fighting.
Then again, I don’t run into those types very often in daily life. Most of the Americans I know where I live are permanent residents or dual citizens, so I’m not well practiced in dealing with the short-timer mindset.
@foo, I’m actually in regular contact with homelanders now. They stop by for a week every few weeks and work in the conference room next to my office. I even got introduced as the “American”. But, they live in a whole different world and it probably won’t be until 2017 when FATCA will require them to have me show them my CLN to prove non-US person status so that they won’t get penalized for employing “the American” without reporting my income. I’m not yet sure how all of that will work out if FATCA succeeds in getting 50 IGA’s.
At least there’s one group where Democrats and Republicans are in agreement.