Treasury Department spokesman Robert Stack claims it’s a myth that US persons living their everyday lives outside the US are being harmed by FATCA. We know it’s true because the damage FATCA has caused and is causing to our lives is real.
In relation to the Stack statement, Tim noticed that Treasury was “re-iterating on twitter that NO ONE will give up their US citizenship because of FACTA and that it is only a myth that that is happening,” which caused Not Amused to write, “That makes us all mythical creatures then. If anyone related to any US government agency ever tries to contact me, I’ll tell them to have their head examined because people like me don’t exist.”
“We Are Not a Myth” is a protest on Tumblr where we post our photos to show that we are real. You can show your face or hide it in your photo, as you wish, and you can add a message along with it. You can add your photo yourself OR e-mail atticusincanada@gmail.com and she’ll add it to the display.
Thanks much, Atticus, for setting this up on Tumblr. Thanks to Blaze for the original suggestion, “It occurred to me that would be great to do around the world as a Treasury Myth Buster. Each person could do their own sign I Am Not A Myth and perhaps the country.”
And thanks all for your photos – the visuals are so eloquent!
Hi Fifi,
So glad you don’t feel alone anymore because it is awful when you first find out about this stuff. I know I felt depressed and really isolated at the beginning. Thanks for being part of the photo protest! Vancouver’s now got its act together as you’ve read, so it should go smoothly and quickly — looking forward to hearing about it!
I’ve had two new submissions this week end from lurkers and I would love for them to participate and introduce themselves on this thread! Welcome and thank you for the submissions!
@FiFi, welcome, and thanks for your post.
You are not alone. Over the last two or more years, many of us have felt the need for the information and support that IBS (and now also Maple Sandbox http://maplesandbox.ca/about-maple-sandbox/) has put together.
@Atticus in Canada
I had a negative comment on the myth from a person who I thought would be supportive.
He said we on it looked like we were in a cult. He thought I was going crazy on my FATCA shared posts on my FB….He thinks it is for going after rich billionaires and all I have to do is renounce. It is so sad.
@northernstar
Your friend dwells in a bubble.
@bubblebustin
for sure.
@northernstar,
This reminds me of the myth/story of Cassandra – who had the gift of prophecy, but was doomed not to be believed. Your friend just cannot fathom the situation and its import. They are in denial – as this whole thing speaks so very badly of those involved in this extortionate and extraterritorial ‘might makes right’ enterprise: the US government, the banks and FFIs, the Compliance Industrial Complex, the Canadian MPs and federal representatives who would prefer to stay mum on the issue – or who offer us nothing but inaccurate platitudes, etc.
I still have days in which it all seems unreal, and I catch myself thinking that we will emerge from this waking nightmare. But as we know, this is all too real.
@badger
Thank you for the insight. Abba did a song with her name. ]
How fitting the song is for us Brockers.
Many of us are leaving the USA….by relinquishing and renouncing…some are going to….so many others don’t believe us.
Thank you everyone, for the welcome and all the detailed info. I’m still sifting through it all. My brief story: I am from the US, married a Canadian and emigrated to BC in 1988. After spending half my life in Canada, I finally got my citizenship (and a tattoo to celebrate!) in 2008.
I haven’t filed a US tax return since… Sometime in the 90s. Probably a big oops. I wouldn’t have owed anything at all anyhow. Hadn’t even heard of FATCA until 2011, and I’ve been fretting ever since. And then there is FBAR. I simply do not understand why I must report my husband’s financial information (our joint bank accounts) to the US. So now I’m trying to figure out what to do. Relinquish based on my Canadian naturalization in 2008, and take my chances by ignoring the dreaded tax form? Do nothing at all and believe what Flaherty and Jacobson have said?? Or Start filing? Remove myself from our bank accounts? Move to a gulf island with no electricity? I just don’t know. I do know that my US family gets it, and they fully support my decision to never set foot in the states again.
There. I feel a little better now! Thanks for listening.
My letter writing campaign to MPs, etc, has begun.
@ fifi
So sorry you had to join this club but still happy to have you with us as we all try to muddle through this mess. Be sure to read the comments on the CBC News article. It really helps to see that people are starting to get it and what the government wanted most was to deliver an IGA before anyone had any understanding of what they were doing. It’s not going to happen that way now. Let’s just say the FATCAT is out of the bag.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-banks-to-be-compelled-to-share-clients-info-with-u-s-1.2437975
@Fifi
Your in BC and I am in ontario. It took me 24 years to become a citizen after coming to Canada. I too had filed uo to and including the year I became citizen in 1993. Then I stopped. I am waiting for my CLN that I went to the us counsel in July for. I was lucky and became a citizen before the cut iff date . You will get a lot of support here. Welcome aboard.
@Em the comments are over 700. Encouraging.
Welcome fifi and thank you for filling us in on your story.
I came to Canada as a child, but unlike so many here, I didn’t become a Canadian until the laws changed allowing me to retain my US citizenship. As it turned out, Canada since then changed it’s citizenship laws allowing me to have been a Canadian since birth because my mother was born in Canada (go figure). I think leaving the US at the age I did had something to do with the attachment I felt toward my US citizenship. I never would have dreamed that it would betray me such as it has. What kind of country that purports to be what it is would do this to its emigrants?
@fifi, you give too little information to offer any suggestions. Do you have US-based assets? Do you have any Social Security coming to you? Certainly, you can probably go to a US consulate and claim that you relinquished your citizenship in 2008. Whether you wish to incur the risk of not filing to the IRS will depend on your answers to the my two questions. The risk is minimal (compared to filing) for those who have no assets in the US and who expect no pension or Social Security or other US income.
@bubblebustin, A very sick country.
i moved to canada in 1966 when i was 5. i obtained canadian citzenship in 1979 when i was 18. in 1982 i went to school in the states, got married and divorced and filed all my tax papers. moved back to canada in 1989 and have not looked back at returning to the states.
i have not filed an american tax return since 1989 as i wrongly assumed that since i was not working in the states i don’t need to file a tax return.
2 weeks ago my canadian wife and i went on a long weekend trip to the usa. i was badgered by the border agent about why i was not using an american passport and was told to go to the nearest post office and apply for a passport. which i of course did not do so.
only upon returning to canada and talking to people about our experience have i found IB and the whole FATCA issue.
i am now fully committed to not ever retuning to the usa and not giving out one iota of information to the irs or the american gov’t.
uncle sam if you want me to pay the alleged penalties that i may or may not owe you you have to come find me cause i am not going to make it easy on you by telling you where i am.
i am going to miss going to the states cause my wife and i love traveling there but all our decision does is open up the rest of the world for us to explore!!!!
http://www.freeenterprise.com/economy-taxes/fatca-trap-opposition-builds-can-intrusive-foreign-tax-compliance-law-be-stopped
The We Are Not a Myth portrait protest has paid another dividend. Blaze found this article posted by “FreeEnterprise.com, a U.S. Chamber of Commerce digital platform”. Visuals really do work! I’d encourage other Brockers and Sandboxers to post their protest portraits … e-mail them to atticusincanada at gmail dot com. The second wave of portraits is about 1/3 of the way to becoming my next collage.
Thanks, mettleman, for your report on harassment at the US border regarding not having US passport — and your wisely not going to the nearest post office to apply for one.
You have boiled it down to what is best for you: …all our decision does is open up the rest of the world for us to explore!!!!
@Mettleman
Welcome !
You found us and you will find a wealth of information, encouragement, suuoprt, and caring.
Thank you for giving your history. We all are unique in our histories . We all share the same objective to stop FATCA and to make all our fellow country men aware of FATCA and its wickedness. Notice I said country men. Most of us on IBS are Canadian but others are all over the rest of the world. Yet we are together as in one boat, seeking justice and freedom from the slavery of citizen based taxation.
Welcome, Mettleman iii
Welcome Fifi and Mettleman, You’ll find a lot of information here and a lot of support!
I’m so glad you decided to post your situation though sorry you had to deal with this.
@Em, great find! Yes, visuals do make a difference. I’ve had emails from others who have seen that page who haven’t yet the courage to post here but, it has made a difference to them. That article is the second time I’ve had media respond in one month.
BTW, someone asked me about making submission stories to OECD. I cannot find the thread or post about it. Can an author post and create a link?
@badger, “he thinks all you have to do is renounce”
You know what I want to address that for him. It’s not a matter for many people of “all you have to do” Why should I have to lose my citizenship of birth over an unworkable and unfair law? That’s outrageous!
Frankly, I believe those forced to renounce over this are owed a public apology and an offer of our citizenship back for those that would take it. Renouncing citizenship is not a “just” anything. It’s an awful thing to be forced to do and no country should force citizens into such a position especially not something like this. They make it sound like it’s a walk in the park. It’s not.
@Petros: Hi, and thanks for the questions. I have no assets in or income from the US. No likelihood of inheritance. I’ve told my aunt to bequeath everything to a charity of her choice, I don’t want it. (Maybe she’ll give it all to my brother and he will ‘share’). I worked in the states until I was 22, so maybe 5 years of SS coming to me – I don’t care about it. I’ve been thinking about the relinquishment… except I got on the voters list in my family’s home county for the 2008 election, and voted for change. Sigh. I’m getting removed from that list. So I probably can’t claim relinquishment upon naturalization, as I’d have to lie. (I would imagine it’s not very hard for DoS to find out that I voted, maybe someone here knows better). I might have (or might not have, I can’t remember) used my US passport once in 2008, because ‘I was supposed to’, and I like to follow the rules. I have only used my CDN passport since, and have not had any problem with the US birthplace when entering the US. As far as going to the States again, I can live without that. For my last two international trips, I’ve purposely avoided the US, because quite frankly the gun violence scares the hell out of me. AND I don’t want to contribute one more dime to their economy. So I’m probably far enough off the radar to not worry much about things… but you just never know. I’d like to believe Flaherty when he says that Canada won’t let the US come after those of us who are Canadian citizens who were ignorant of their obligations, but honestly… he’s just a politician saying that. I haven’t seen any policy yet. I keep debating on whether to relinquish/renounce and take the risk with the tax form, or stay under the radar until there are more details on implementation of FATCA and/or the IGA (that’s my preference today)… or maybe wait till the US gets rid of CBT. But I don know that there is no way in hell I’m giving the IRS a list of my Canadian-only husband’s financial assets. No bloody way. Rant complete!
🙂
There is some discussion of submissions to OECD here:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca/comment-page-59/#comment-703678
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca/comment-page-59/#comment-703968
I had asked questions at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/11/22/government-of-canada-ratification-of-the-convention-on-mutual-administrative-assistance-in-tax-matters/. I’m too confused on how FATCA and OECD policies relate to each other. Tim and Schubert tell me that:
@AtticusinCanada
One person renouncing their citizenship because of BAD government policy is one too many. Who’s serving who?
@Fifi, I voted in 2008 too in the primary *democrat not Obama* and voted third party in the g.e. I did not vote for “change”
I was STILL allowed to relinquish. Also, I had to use my U.S. passport at the border in 2011 when my mother died. I told them about it and said I was requested by the border guard to show my U.S. passport. The woman at the consulate called Washington D.C. and the answer was that it is STILL a relinquishment.
You may still be able to relinquish though it may depend on the person you get at the counter when going in.
@Calgary, thank you!