FATCA Fact Sheet Anti-FATCA Slogans Protest Press Release
AtticusinCanada has received an official permit to protest on Parliament Hill Oct. 16, 2013, from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m.! We will meet at 9 a.m. in front of Parliament Hill and proceed to the Hill itself once we have a reasonably sized group. Families and even children are welcome if you feel they are old enough! We ask that everyone bring their own sign. A good idea would be to email AtticusinCanada with the slogans you would like to use, so we have as few duplicates as possible.
First posted on September 11, 2013
The mini-protest in Ottawa on Sept 9, 2013, garnered some well needed media attention. Just imagine how much we could achieve if more Brockers joined forces for a larger protest at parliament hill this fall!
Many of us believe that a formal announcement of an IGA for FATCA is just around the corner. It’s time to ramp up with the push back. The letter writing and emailing to our elected representatives has been great, and some illuminating articles have been written by Lynne and Victoria, but we need to do more.
Atticusincanada and I would like to be the drivers towards organizing a larger protest, but first we need to gather enough participants. For those Brockers who can commit to coming to Ottawa for a day, and would like to join us, please email Atticusincanada at atticusincanada@gmail.com.
@ AtticusinCanada
I can’t help you out with a media list but if you need “petition portraits” Mr. Em and I have ours all ready to send off in JPG form. They are totally anonymous with “I am not a myth” signage covering most of our faces like the active military men did to protest going to war with Syria. I must say with the help of hats, sunglasses and signage our old mugs never looked so good. 😉
@yoga girl
How about the FATcan approach in nude protesting?
I would have to get rid of my belly fat before doing something like that!
@SwissPinoy
There must be some way we can use fat to our advantage in protesting FATCA?
Swisspinoy and bubblebustin, they would find a way to use our fat against us. They are diabolical like that.
They would argue that the fat represents hidden wealth (tax evasion). It is a fact that I didn’t pay US taxes on all that Swiss chocolate that I gobbled up. The result would be that they would slap a US sales tax on the purchase of Swiss chocolate in Switzerland.
Yogagirl, No thanks! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24338387
Did not know where to post this but it is a BBC article of 20 Americans who gave up their passports and why
I suppose since I’ve lost 50 lbs low carbing I’ve lost enough belly fat to go topless. It seems you get more media exposure that way, at least if you are a young woman. Dunno whether a middle-aged half-Korean man could become a media sensation in the same way, but perhaps it is worth a try.
Everybody should keep their clothes on. Tell Canadian politicians to give FATCA a big FAT F-minus grade and stop it at the border.
@ AtticusinCanada
Mr. Em and I would love to be in Ottawa on the 16th with you but it’s not possible. If I e-mailed you a small JPG version (maybe 4″x4″ or even smaller) of our “I am not a myth” portraits could you print them up and wear them around your neck on a string at the protest? Would any other Brockers be able to do the same? (I realize not everyone has photoshop installed.) The moderators have our e-mail addresses, perhaps one of them would be willing to forward the JPGs to you. Just a thought. I find myself wanting to do something besides writing e-mails to Flaherty and others (got another “no response” response today).
Those in the UK:
Nina Olson IRS Taxpayer Advocate will be a speaker at this event:
https://www.taxinstitute.ie/Portals/0/Conferences%20&%20Seminars/2013/Global%20Tax%20Policy%20Conference/Global%20TaxConference_web.pdf
It would be very interesting to hear what the Advocate says in this session that connects the dots between a ‘fair’ tax system and citizenship:
FRIDAY 18 OCTOBER
A FAIR TAX SYSTEM FOR THECITIZEN/ TAX AND CITIZENSHIP
Nina Olson, National Taxpayer Advocate, IRS
John Whiting, Tax Director, Office of Tax Simplification
Michael D’Ascenzo, Former Commissioner for Taxation for ATO
That is preceded in the morning by a presentation by ex IRS Commissioner ‘Easter Egg Roll’ ‘I’m coming to get you Canadian ‘Grannnies’ Shulman http://youtu.be/mpse7cdwyNw http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capitolreport/2013/05/22/shulmans-white-house-easter-time-visit-rolls-into-irs-scandal/
Of course, ordinary expat citizens abroad would never have access to this type of event – in which it seems a conversation might take place about the conjoining of US taxation and citizenship.
@Em, of course I could do that. So sorry to be late getting back to you. I’ve come down with the devil of a virus since yesterday.
If you all will email me your “I Am Not a Myth” photos I’ll try to get them up on Tumbler or similar page. What I want to do is have it set so anyone here can add their own picture as they make them. That might not be doable though in which case I’d be adding them as they are emailed to me.
At any rate will do this AND take your pic with us to Ottawa Em.
@ AtticusinCanada
Good deal and so sorry about that virus. I’ll send them shortly. Promise not to laugh. Mr. Em and I are not pretty young things like you and WhiteKat.
Oh lord, Em! lol…I told Lynne White Kat looks like a model and I was so far down hill from her I looked like a munchkin from Wizard of Oz! I’ll be happy to see you!!
Tumbler: http://we-are-not-a-myth.tumblr.com/post/62976443019
Tumbler is a little new to me. I’d like to set it so that each of you could just click in the corner of the page and add your own photo. Until I figure out how that is done please email me your photo if you want to be added. Em, you are up!
What are the photo specs? Old? New? Pretty? Ugly? Scary? Boring? I might send you a 20 year old picture of me in uniform. One cannot deny that a US veteran exists!
It doesn’t matter just don’t submit something HUGE. I think one of you in uniform would work very well!
Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to maybe have a rebuttal to Stack-o-lies on the other side of our FATCA sheet? Maybe a modified version of the one that PJM left on FSI Tax Posts?
“It is sad that the US Department of Treasury appears to have stooped to using what has all the appearances of a cheap propaganda campaign in a seemingly desperate effort to defend such a poorly crafted piece of legislation and its attendant regulations.
I looked at Mr. Stack’s comments, on behalf of Treasury regarding the alleged 7 “Myths” and noted my evaluation of his remarks for each of the 7 as follows:
1.) FATCA was signed into law in March of 2010. The text of the law is 20 pages long. It took Treasury nearly 3 more years to issue the so called “Final Regulations” which are 543 pages long. It then took Treasury an additional 9 months to issue 36 pages of amendments to correct and clarify the so called “Final Regulations”. Somehow Treasury now interprets a few concessions in the initial search criteria to be substantial relief in compliance burdens/costs. The fact of the matter is without these changes, implementation would be incomprehensible in any time frame.
Additionally, throughout the legislative process and the subsequent 3 and a half years, neither Treasury nor any other part of the government nor anyone else has completed and published any kind of credible or otherwise cost/benefit analysis with respect to FATCA. It is therefore impossible for Treasury to make any sensible or realistic claim to achieving “…the policy objectives without imposing undue burdens or costs.”
Without the benefit of any analysis, Treasury is in no reasonable position to suggest there is some kind of “Myth” regarding cost and complexity.
2.) It is well known that US citizens, resident in a number of countries are being denied banking and investment services. While turning US account holders away might not completely enable an FFI to avoid FATCA, it will substantially reduce the compliance burdens and costs. This issue has been well documented in various articles in the media and by organizations such as American Citizens Abroad. It is therefore quite disingenuous to suggest this real problem is some “Myth”.
To assert that “FATCA is quickly becoming the global standard for automatic information exchange… ” is simply FALSE. FATCA is based on Citizenship Based Taxation (CBT), involving gathering information on US citizens and other so called ‘US Persons’ not Residency Based Taxation (RBT). There is a very considerable difference between CBT and RBT and 19 countries are NOT involved in any project to exchange information on a CBT basis. Indeed, the US and Eritrea are the only countries on earth that practice CBT. Treasury’s comments here suggest that all this new founded intergovernmental cooperation is about exchanging information on each other countries residents. If FATCA was in fact a measure to detect foreign accounts of US residents, not ‘US Persons’ resident anywhere, then most of the objections around the world would melt away.
Treasury’s comments here are again disingenuous and crafted in a way to deceive.
3.) Treasury’s assertion is absolutely FALSE. US Citizens abroad must file Form 8938 as a result of FATCA. This filing essentially requires US Citizens abroad to register their assets with the IRS unless assets are held in the US. In most cases their assets are held in the country of residence. Not only is this a new requirement imposed on US Citizens abroad, as a result of FATCA, but it is also an intrusion that Treasury and Congress should know that homeland citizens and residents would not tolerate being imposed on them for their assets in the country of residence (i.e., the U.S.).
In addition, it is well know and has been the subject of recent media coverage that there is a substantial increase in expatriations since FATCA came into existence. In 2013, the trend is accelerating.
4.) It takes an enormous stretch of the imagination to believe Treasury’s IGA approach is motivated by respect for other countries laws and customs. The truth of the matter is that Treasury and the IRS simply do not have the wherewithal, organization, capacity or budgetary resources to establish and maintain individual contractual relationships with hundreds of thousands of FFIs and to monitor and enforce compliance within those FFIs. It is also highly unlikely Congress would appropriate substantial news funds to attempt doing so. Treasury also knows that to force so many FFIs to comply without the support of their home governments would indeed force them to violate privacy and discriminations laws and/or constitutional provisions. While FATCA has yet to be proven to be implementable, it is clear that there would likely be no chance of implementation without getting agreement from and assistance from other governments. In additions the IGA approach is also a way to offload enforcement and administrative costs to the various foreign jurisdictions.
International interest in participating in FATCA is primarily motivated by the threat of 30% withholdings of USD payments, not IGAs.
In their comments here, Treasury fails to mention that their IGAs are subject to legal challenges in the US by the Texas and Florida Bankers Associations. In addition some members of Congress are openly questioning Treasury’s authority to enter into these IGAs. It should be further noted there is no mention of any such concept (IGAs) in the legislation itself.
Finally, getting 9 signed IGAs (many not yet supported by enabling legislation), at this stage, only 9 months from the latest extended implementation date is hardly a measure of success. It seems highly unlikely that the other more than 150 jurisdictions around the world will ‘sign on’, let alone pass enabling legislation or settle inevitable court challenges in the next 9 months.
5.) Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, in a letter to several publications did in fact outline the Canadian Government’s objections to FATCA and labelled its enforcement as a “…waste of resources on all sides.” He also indicated that “FATCA has far-reaching extraterritorial implications. It would turn Canadian banks into extensions of the IRS and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians.”
While there is support amongst many governments for information exchanges for taxation purposes, it is doubtful that Treasury can show examples of specific support for FATCA’s CBT enforcement approach by foreign governments. Rather, some governments have agreed to IGAs through and because of the coercion of 30% withholdings. Again, Treasury’s statements here are false and misleading.
6.) On September 10, 2013, subsequent to making that extension, Treasury issued another 36 pages of amendments to the ‘Final’ regulations (543 pages long) which were issued on January 17, 2013. Many FFIs which have multiple systems in multiple jurisdictions, with multiple regulators, servicing multiple types of financial products in multiple different currencies are fully justified in their complaints of unfairness.
The issue is even further exacerbated by a lack of clarity as to if and when IGAs might be applicable in which jurisdictions.
Treasury’s response here is completely misleading and disingenuous and has nothing to do with any alleged “Myth”.
7.) Treasury’s assertion is FALSE. Their own regulations clearly require FFIs to go beyond reporting, but also become withholding agents in certain cases (e.g. recalcitrant account holders, non-participating FFIs, etc.). Also, the process of screening customers to determine if they are deemed to be US taxpayers or US persons in foreign countries is indeed forcing the FFIs to be extensions of the IRS. That claim, made by Canada’s Finance Minister and many others is not by any means a “Myth” and is confirmed by the FATCA regulations.”
http://www.fsitaxposts.com/2013/09/25/myth-vs-fatca-truth-treasurys-effort-combat-offshore-tax-evasion/
@Bubblebustin,
The handout, stands on its own I think, and is good for people who are new to FATCA. Adding the Treasury propaganda to the back would be TMI, I think.
However, Stack’s lies are necessary to point out, and having a separate document, with the lies on one side, and the truth on the other side would be useful. It could be handed out along with the FATCA Fact sheet, or separately from it, or attached to an email, etc.
So yeah, I think a double sided sheet contrasting FATCA lies with truths would be useful as an additional document for educating people about FATCA.
@WhiteKat
I only suggested it because there will be queries as to what this “myth” business is all about.
Bubblebustin,
Well, if we could fit it all on the back of the handout, that might work.
@bubblebustin, FATCA’s lone internet warrior is having a self-conversation over at:
http://www.iexpats.com/small-country-joining-fatca-big-deal-us/
he/she is posting as BrokeBubblebustin, UStax and GlobalCapitalism. While the later two accounts are new, 442 posts have already been made under BrokeBubblebustin. Each profile is private, so one cannot see where the internet warrior has been fighing to save FATCA.
@WhiteKat
Ok, I’ll try my hand at a modified version, as per my suggestion 🙂
@swisspinoy
Thanks for the tipoff. Excuse the expression, but what a bunch of circle jerks!
@bubblebustin,
Time to practice dispelling Stack’s myths by heading over to: http://www.iexpats.com/small-country-joining-fatca-big-deal-us/
I noticed that $50,000 limit came up again in those iexpat comments. That is for the banks NOT for individuals’ 8938s which have a $200,000 limit (non-joint filer) — right?