It’s been months since I’ve seen any availability for Vancouver appointments. Thanks to Cyal8rUS, who posted the following comment on the “About the Isaac Brock Society” page.
“If someone with authorship privileges would be able to blog this: The Vancouver US Consulate FINALLY has new appointments available for “other” ACS services. If you have been trying to book a renunciation appointment, get there quickly. …”
The Vancouver website says; “If you would like to make an appointment to renounce or relinquish your U.S. citizenship, please email VancouverCLN@state.gov ” So, I e-mailed that address a few minutes ago and got an immediate automated reply (very comprehensive with detailed instructions). Of particular interest is this paragraph [emphasis added]:
“IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.”
So: (1) only one visit is required, (2) you must book through Vancouver.CLN@state.gov (not through the online calendar).
Full text of the e-mail after the arrow.
“Thank you for contacting us regarding renouncing U.S. citizenship.
Please do not reply to this email. This inbox is not monitored.
Renunciation of U.S. citizenship must 1) be taken in the presence of a
diplomatic or consular officer; 2) be taken outside the United States;
and 3) be in the precise form prescribed by the Secretary of State. It
is an irrevocable action that cannot be reversed. Should you choose to
pursue renunciation of your U.S. citizenship, you will have to complete
form DS-4079 – Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United
States Citizenship and come to the Consulate to sign an “Oath of
Renunciation of the Nationality of the United States” and a “Statement
of Understanding”. These documents form the basis for the Department of
State’s decision regarding the U.S. citizen’s request to renounce
citizenship and are enclosed for your information.Please review these additional documents before scheduling an
appointment: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html> ), Right
of Residence in the U.S. (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html> ), and
Dual Nationality (
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
<http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html> ).On July 13, 2010 the Department of State implemented a fee of $450 for
administrative processing of formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship.
This fee is payable in either U.S. or Canadian dollars or by major
credit card on the day of your appointment.Once you have all forms filled out and you have gathered the required
evidence, please email vancouveracs@state.gov
<mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov> to schedule an appointment. Your email
should indicate that you read this email and that you have filled out
all your required forms and gathered all required supporting
documentation. Please include a contact phone number in your email.IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.At the time of your appointment you must bring:
–Completed and unsigned Form DS4079 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–-Completed Form DS4080 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–Completed Form DS4081 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf> )–Original proof of U.S. citizenship. See this website for information
on proof of U.S. citizenship and requirements for U.S. birth
certificates:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first
<http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first> .–Original proof of other citizenship (often a valid Canadian passport).
–Original evidence of name changes, if applicable (usually marriage
certificates of official name change document).–Your NEXUS card, if you have been issued one.
–Your U.S. Social Security Card, if you have one.
–The address of your last residence in the United States.
–Original evidence of your prior expatriating act if you are
documenting a prior relinquishment of U.S. citizenship (usually a
Canadian certificate of citizenship with the date you became a Canadian
citizen). This is not required if you are currently a U.S. citizen
renouncing your U.S. citizenship. Please see this link to learn about
the difference between relinquishment and renunciation (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html> ).–$450 for documentation of formal renunciation. We accept cash and
credit cards but do not accept debit or personal checks.Please refer to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) website
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-Statem
ent
<http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-State
ment> for information on U.S. federal tax form 8854 “Initial and Annual
Expatriation Information Statement”.Should you have any questions please send an e-mail to
vancouveracs@state.gov. <mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov.%20> “
Note Nov. 2013: No major changes since original posting, but for an update, see E hockin’s comment below regarding modification to this s/he received in November.
Clevegirl, please let us know when your CLN comes through.
The way I read form 8854, it covers 2013 until the day you renounced. If it is allowable to file a 1040 for the entire year, that is the route I will take. Cheaper that way. Form 8854 is quite hard to understand but I am trying to do it myself. The FBAR should be up to the CLN, the way I read it. However, I am not an accountant. Perhaps foolishly, I will do my best then hope for the best. Being retired, I don’t have money to throw at the issues. Not being able to file the FBAR on a Mac is a real pain.
OKDregs. You mention above just one more 1040 and the 8854. You and I both have our CLN,s. Do we have to do the FBAR – 8854 is pretty similar.
Thanks, Islander. I will post when my CLN comes through. Yes, I would do the 8854 as of CLN date. FBAR is separate entity and definitely still required if you meet the reporting threshold, although there is no option to change the date from year end. Not sure whether to go with year end or CLN date but would have to then make sure to use applicable foreign currently exchange rate for whichever date you choose to use. Exchange rate comes into play in so many calculations including 8891 and 8938 if that form happens to apply to your situation. I’m trying to research this as thoroughly as I can without having to consult with a cross border specialist but I may end up booking a half hour consultation if I can’t sort through all of the options myself. If anyone has any guidance to offer, it would be much appreciated. I’m also having to do this for my two (accidental American) daughters who renounced a couple of weeks after I did.
I relinquished 16 September 2013 in Toronto and was told ‘about April’. I am still waiting on it. Let me know if anyone else in this time frame (or yours/Nov.) has gotten their CLN yet.
@Clevergirl, you go with the date on your CLN for FBAR’s, so filing only a partial year as it were. Use the exchange rates found here:
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Treasury-Reporting-Rates-of-Exchange-as-of-December-31-2013
I don’t need to file anything other than FBAR’s thank goodness; still I also used this exchange rate for sorting out the 8854 form as well. It’s the “official” rate so I’m assuming it should be used for any and all foreign currency calculations.
Thanks for this, MediaFleecestealer. Is it your opinion that you use the Dec 31 (calendar year end) exchange rate for 8854, FBARs, etc even though you are entering the values as of the CLN date (in my case, renunciation date was November 25)? I thought one would have to use the posted exchange rate as of the CLN date when converting values to US dollars for the various forms that require “year end” dates since the year end date we are using is different than Dec 31. I’d be happy to use the Dec 31 exchange rates rather than CLN date exchange rates if that is acceptable. Is that what others are doing? Really appreciate everyone’s feedback — very helpful when trying to sort through these details.
Here is the exchange rate for Nov 25 2013
1 Canadian Dollar US Dollars 0.94930 USD 1 Canadian Dollar in US Dollars is 0.94930 for 11/25/2013
Here’s another link re currency exchange rates.
http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Currency-and-Currency-Exchange-Rates
I’ve no idea which is more acceptable to the IRS – the year end from the Treasury or just finding the exchange rate for your renuncation date using something like OANDA. I decided the Treasury was probably the safest, but then I only needed to file FBAR’s anyway as I have no income to report. Use whichever gives you the best conversion rate, i.e. favours you, when making calculations.
Thanks, Islander. The official federal reserve Canadian dollar exchange rate for Nov 25 is 1.051, but I’m still unclear whether to use the exchange rate for my renunciation date or the official Dec 31 year end rate. I started out thinking I should use the renunciation date exchange rate since I would be entering the asset values as of that date, but now I’m just not sure and I can’t seem to find a definitive answer. By the way, you can get daily federal reserve rates for 2013 at: http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h10/2013.htm.
Thanks, MedeaFleecestealer. Yes, the year end conversion rate is more favorable since the Cdn dollar was lower on Dec 31 than it was on my renunciation date so I may just opt to go with that if I can’t find a definitive answer on this issue. Since I’m still waiting to receive my CLN, I don’t think I can actually file anything until I have that document, although I’m hoping to have my return and all related paperwork ready to go ASAP so I just have to attach the CLN when it comes.
@clevegirl, @medeafleecstealer, @islander,
I’m also trying to figure out how to fill in the expatriation related tax forms and had questions about what date and exchange rate to use for each. I don’t have a tax professional to consult, so this is just my take.
I think for 8854 you’d use the exchange rate for the date of expatriation since you’re filling out assets, etc with respect to that date. For the FBAR, I believe we are only required to fill it with max values up to the date of expatriation (not for the entire year), but I don’t know if we should use the exchange rate for that date or just use the Dec 31 date as the form instructions mention. For the 1040/1040NR I guess we can use the average exchange rate for 2013 as you can in a normal tax filing year. I’m not sure what to use
for 8891 and 8938 exchange rate. I think we are only required to report on these up to expatriation date
(not the entire year), so would put the max values on 8938 up to that date and the value on expatriation date on 8891, but as to whether or not to use the Dec 31 date as these forms specify to convert those values or some other exchange rate (date of expatriation rate or date of actual max value), I don’t know.
Anyone on IBS that has done this already and/or had advice from a tax professional would be really
appreciated.
@Michael Putman, I relinquished in Toronto Sept.19th 2013, NO CLN YET!
Moonstruck, you’ve captured all of the items I’m also dealing with that fall into this exchange rate date question. My other big question is whether it is acceptable to file a 1040 for the entire year (which is the info I’ve received from another source) or just to expat date, and, in either case, whether that is a better way to go than the 1040 and 1040 NR as a “dual status” year. Since I neither resided in the US for any part of 2013, nor had any US source income for any part of the year, I’m questioning the need to file 1040 and 1040 NR. In reading Pub 519 (the publication reference for completing 1040 NR), it states explicitly: “You have a dual-status tax year when you have been both a resident alien and a nonresident alien in the same year. Dual status does not refer to your citizenship; it refers only to your resident status in the United States.” So I’m in a quandary about that as well. Any thoughts on that one?
@Clevergirl, the only thing that might be considered incorrect re using the year end 2013 is that you committed your expatriating act before that date. So maybe go with the daily Federal rate you found or possibly the figure given for September 2013 listed here:
http://fms.treas.gov/intn.html
I renounced in early March 2013 so the y/e Federal rate for December 2012 was okay for me.
@Moonstruck, yes reporting for FBAR’s, 8891 and 8938 is only up to your expatriation date. Any figures after that date aren’t relevant because you’re no longer a citizen. If the FBAR instructions say to use the y/e figure then use that. For the 8938 form ithe instructions say to use the link I’ve just posted to Clevergirl for the quarterly Treasury info:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8938.pdf
I would use the same rate for the 8891 form too to be consistent.
And if you can use the average exchange rates for normal filing of 1040/1040NR’s there should be no problem in doing so for your last filings.
@Clevergirl, if you have no income to report then you shouldn’t need to file 1040. I have no income so only needed to file FBAR’s as I have joint accounts with my husband. But I was using the Streamlined program to get compliant rather than just filing ordinarily. Still, if 1040 is only for reporting income, then no – no need to file one. How can you report what you never had?
@clevegirl,
I have also read on this forum somewhere and on another forum that it is possible to just file a 1040 for the entire year and no 1040NR, but I’m not a tax professional. Reading publication 519 it sure doesn’t sound like you have a choice but 8854 does talk about filing either. As I understand it you can choose:
1. File 1040 up to date of expatriation and file 1040NR for remainder of the year and attach the 1040 to
the 1040NR as a statement. You’d include all income worldwide only up to date of expatriation on
1040 & if you have any U.S. source income for the remainder of the year you’ include it on 1040NR.
If you file 1040NR you can’t take the standard deduction. You only need to report on 8891, 8938,
and FBAR up until the date of expatriation.
2. File 1040 only. If you do this I believe you must include ALL income worldwide for the ENTIRE
tax year, but you would be able to claim the standard deduction on 1040 which you can’t do
if you file 1040NR. It also seems like in this case you might have to fill the 8891, 8938, and FBAR for
the entire tax year, but I’m not sure about that.
MedeaFleecestealer raises a good question – do you have any income to report? If not then maybe
there is no need for you to file anything but the 8854. I’m not sure, but maybe it’s needed to file
at least for the 8891 and FBAR.
This is all so confusing and there is no clear guidance in any of the IRS docs or instructions.
Moonstruck and Clegril,
I renounced on Sept 5 of last year, and I filed 1040 for just Jan 1- Sept 5, and used my Canadian tax paid for that period (about 62% of the entire years tax) to deduct away all US tax using form 1116. 1040NR is used for income from US sources only; I don’t have US income. If you continue to have US income after you renounce, you would have to file it I guess using your SSN as id. I included 8854 with the 1040, which I filed a month ago (as soon as I could get record of Canadian tax paid). I would guess that if you have no income to report, you would just mail 8854 to the IRS in Philadelphia.
Yes, that’s what I’ll be doing. My tax preparer is filing my FBAR’s for me this time around as I see no point in bothering to register to e-file them myself when they’re my last ones. I’m just waiting for him to send me back the 8854 and then I’ll send copies off as per the instruction sheet.
Can you imagine how good it will feel to have done the last filings to the IRS and be free at last. It feels like such an aggravation.
Islander, I have a feeling of being unfulfilled, even thought I am done with the IRS. The problem is they do not send you anything saying things are ok (unlike Canada which sends a notice of assessment even when nothing is owed). I call the IRS a “black hole”. The only way I can determine if things are OK is to call the Philadelphia office (which I have done for previous filings of 1040s). Although its a toll call, in the past I waited only a few minutes for somebody to answer and they quickly determined things were ok (its on their computer). I will call them in a few months for one last time, for closure.
@MedeaFleecestealer
I don’t believe it’s necessary to register anymore to efile your FBARs. You download a FBAR PDF form document, fill it in, and then upload it. I’m in the 2nd stage of that 3 step process. So far, it’s quite straightforward. [there’s actually a step 2.1 where you make a hard copy, sign it, and save it with your other important docs] Things have greatly changed from the last time around, which was apparently less than smooth.
@Islander, yes I can’t wait. I’ve done very little in the way of filing, but even so the aggrevation of having to get involved with the US tax system, just to be able to say I’m tax compliant on a piece of paper makes me want to spit in someone’s face. It’s going to cost me around CHF2,500 just to back file the FBAR’s and a 8854 form because I didn’t want to risk messing things up by not knowing what I was doing. Once I get the 8854 form sent off then I’m done and won’t worry about it any more. I don’t owe them anything so I’m not worried that they won’t get back to me one way or another. It must be so annoying for many others though, who do want a definite answer and can’t get one without chasing them up about it. Not only overly complicated to deal with, but inefficient with it as well from the sounds of it.
@tdott, yes you’re correct and having to register isn’t required for individuals now. Hoorah, they finally got something right!
@Moonstruck, @MedeaFleecestealer, @kermitzii — thanks for all the feedback. Yes I do have Canadian income for the year, just no US source income which is why I don’t think it is absolutely essential to use the 1040 plus 1040 NR approach … but I am looking further into this. In any case, I won’t owe anything to the US. I’ve never owed anything but I’ve spent a lot of time and money dealing with these ridiculous reporting requirements and I can’t wait to have all this behind me.
Moonstruck, where on the 8854 does it talk about filing either 1040 or 1040 plus 1040 NR — I thought I read the 8854 instructions thoroughly but could not find anything about an option to file a 1040 for the whole year.
kermitzii – did you receive your CLN before you filed? I understand that you have to include a copy with your 1040 and 8854. I’m still waiting for mine so assume I can’t file my return and 8854 until I get the CLN.
Doing the FBAR online is now pretty straightforward so I suppose we should be grateful for that improvement. Although I’m having a hard time feeling anything close to grateful about any of this confusing BS!
@Clevergirl, there’s no requirement to send a copy of your CLN with any tax documents. The State Department sends copies of all CLN’s to the IRS. Given the increasing delays in getting CLN’s out to recipients you could miss your filing deadline by waiting for it to arrive.
@clevegirl,
I was making that assumption based on the 8854 instructions under heading Where to file:
“Send your Form 8854 (or a copy of your Form 8854 if you are required to attach
the original to a Form 1040NR or a Form 1040) to this address.
Department of the Treasury
Internal Revenue Service
Philadelphia, PA 19255-0049”
And I agree with Medeafleecestealer and others that you do not need to send a copy of
your CLN with the 8854. If the IRS cannot coordinate that then tough!!
@all,
I’m confused about how to fill in 8854, part V schedule B. If you don’t have any U.S. source income,
do you just include it on line 9 Gross income from all other sources and put zeroes in for all the other
lines? Is that what people are doing?