It’s been months since I’ve seen any availability for Vancouver appointments. Thanks to Cyal8rUS, who posted the following comment on the “About the Isaac Brock Society” page.
“If someone with authorship privileges would be able to blog this: The Vancouver US Consulate FINALLY has new appointments available for “other” ACS services. If you have been trying to book a renunciation appointment, get there quickly. …”
The Vancouver website says; “If you would like to make an appointment to renounce or relinquish your U.S. citizenship, please email VancouverCLN@state.gov ” So, I e-mailed that address a few minutes ago and got an immediate automated reply (very comprehensive with detailed instructions). Of particular interest is this paragraph [emphasis added]:
“IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.”
So: (1) only one visit is required, (2) you must book through Vancouver.CLN@state.gov (not through the online calendar).
Full text of the e-mail after the arrow.
“Thank you for contacting us regarding renouncing U.S. citizenship.
Please do not reply to this email. This inbox is not monitored.
Renunciation of U.S. citizenship must 1) be taken in the presence of a
diplomatic or consular officer; 2) be taken outside the United States;
and 3) be in the precise form prescribed by the Secretary of State. It
is an irrevocable action that cannot be reversed. Should you choose to
pursue renunciation of your U.S. citizenship, you will have to complete
form DS-4079 – Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United
States Citizenship and come to the Consulate to sign an “Oath of
Renunciation of the Nationality of the United States” and a “Statement
of Understanding”. These documents form the basis for the Department of
State’s decision regarding the U.S. citizen’s request to renounce
citizenship and are enclosed for your information.Please review these additional documents before scheduling an
appointment: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html> ), Right
of Residence in the U.S. (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html> ), and
Dual Nationality (
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
<http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html> ).On July 13, 2010 the Department of State implemented a fee of $450 for
administrative processing of formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship.
This fee is payable in either U.S. or Canadian dollars or by major
credit card on the day of your appointment.Once you have all forms filled out and you have gathered the required
evidence, please email vancouveracs@state.gov
<mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov> to schedule an appointment. Your email
should indicate that you read this email and that you have filled out
all your required forms and gathered all required supporting
documentation. Please include a contact phone number in your email.IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.At the time of your appointment you must bring:
–Completed and unsigned Form DS4079 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–-Completed Form DS4080 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–Completed Form DS4081 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf> )–Original proof of U.S. citizenship. See this website for information
on proof of U.S. citizenship and requirements for U.S. birth
certificates:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first
<http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first> .–Original proof of other citizenship (often a valid Canadian passport).
–Original evidence of name changes, if applicable (usually marriage
certificates of official name change document).–Your NEXUS card, if you have been issued one.
–Your U.S. Social Security Card, if you have one.
–The address of your last residence in the United States.
–Original evidence of your prior expatriating act if you are
documenting a prior relinquishment of U.S. citizenship (usually a
Canadian certificate of citizenship with the date you became a Canadian
citizen). This is not required if you are currently a U.S. citizen
renouncing your U.S. citizenship. Please see this link to learn about
the difference between relinquishment and renunciation (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html> ).–$450 for documentation of formal renunciation. We accept cash and
credit cards but do not accept debit or personal checks.Please refer to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) website
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-Statem
ent
<http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-State
ment> for information on U.S. federal tax form 8854 “Initial and Annual
Expatriation Information Statement”.Should you have any questions please send an e-mail to
vancouveracs@state.gov. <mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov.%20> “
Note Nov. 2013: No major changes since original posting, but for an update, see E hockin’s comment below regarding modification to this s/he received in November.
More than happy to pay the $450. I was very surprised when the consulate staff did not think me a renouncement right off the bat as I had voted, registered my kid, indicated to Soc Security that I was/am an American. It cost a lot to get my IRS filing done and getting rid of that “obligation” makes the money I paid to renounce not so much. Of course, I am not free yet, but the anticipation is certainly there and my steps feel lighter. I am a bit of a worrier and want to simplify my life and not leave obligations for my mate to deal with should I expire before her.
Thanks for sharing your renunciation experience. My appointment is tomorrow and just reviewing (triple-checking, to be honest) my paperwork and documents right now to make sure everything is in order. I hope to walk out after the appointment with a lighter step too.
Good Luck Clevegirl! I hope you’ll stick around after you obtain your well deserved freedom to fight for others who need to lighten their load too and against the reason they are being forced to struggle under the weight of insane US tax policy.
@Islander… I’m curious… did you tell them you voted in 2008, or was that something they found? How would they find it?
Congratulations!
I told them on the form and when they asked directly at the appointment, as well. Furthermore, I reported myself as American and Canadian in my social security phone interview. When I receive my Certificate I have to report my change of status to the social security agency. I hope it won’t have an impact on the bit of money I receive every month. Does anyone know about that?
On form DS-4081, what is the logic or rationale behind making or not making a written explanation of reasons for renunciation? Isn’t this covered in DS-4079?
The approach I use is pragmatic. In a situation like this (renounciation process), do exactly as asked, nothing more, nothing less. Be consistent. Do not lie. Ask a question only if confused and needing an answer. Do not offer opinions. Keep an eye on the goal, rather than worrying about the process and who is right and who is wrong.
Likely the 2 forms go to different departments and each needs the information. It should be exactly the same information. There is usually a reason for duplication (sometimes forgotten). Easy to oblige. My opinion for what it is worth. One of the values of this site is that is a good one for fretting and for fuming and get rid of the crap does not go over well in the actual meeting.
@ CanadaExpat388,
To append a statement of reasons is optional on the 4081, so no need to do so. Best not to – that way you can be sure you don’t say anything wrong or that might rub someone the wrong way.
The other form, the 4079, doesn’t ask the “why” question, focusing its questions on ties and connections to each country and a person’s actions, basically to determine if a US citizenship exists (this form is actually titled “Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United States Citizenship” and some consulates don’t even bother with it for renunciations.)
I don’t think anyone has reported to Brock that they appended a statement with their renunciation, though a lot of us have made a written statement to bolster our relinquishment claims (as a means to illustrate even more factors than were covered in the 4079 why we have not been USCs all these years).
As for why you’ve decided to renounce, they’re not supposed to ask and generally don’t. If asked verbally, probably best for expediency (rather than possibly get into an argument) to just have an answer ready, something bland and non-controversial, such as your entire life takes place in Canada and always will.
I and my two daughters had our renunciation appointments in Vancouver in the last month. We all appended VERY BRIEF statements because we thought we could be clearer and more concise in a written statement than we might be having to make a verbal statement, especially if we got nervous, lost our train of thought and started rambling. So I think we all found it useful to go with a very short written statement. Each of our statements was just 3 or 4 sentences long.
I received my CLN (certificate of loss of nationality), 3 months after renouncing. Now dealing with the IRS remains. Confusing rigamarole but I am sure that too shall pass. What a wonderful feeling.
Thank you to Isaac Brock – all the useful information and all the helpful comments. It certainly made the journey easier. All the best to everybody.
Thanks for posting this, Islander. Can I ask what date you renounced? I’m still waiting for my CLN following my Nov 25 renunciation in Vancouver. Now gathering info on how to file 2013 tax return and how to complete form 8854. But waiting for CLN to ensure renunciation is a done deal.
November 19 so I don’t think you have anything to worry about.
Islander, just noticed your November 2013 post about social security. I recently registered for SS and the agent I’ve been dealing with says my expatriation does not affect any SS benefits to which I’m entitled because of the treaty with Canada. You have to notify Social Security of your change in citizenship status, and I had to send original proof of my Canadian citizenship to the SS rep. I sent my Canadian citizenship certificate card and received it back within about two weeks of sending.
Thanks so much for the information. Just what I needed to know. Also like the reassurance about the CLN not affecting the Soc. Sec.
@Islander: congrats on getting the CLN! Good luck preparing the 8854 form and be done with it.
As I renounced the same day, I’m hoping mine will come through soon.
Wondering if you or others have enlisted local professional advice/help with form 8854?
I don’t think I will enlist any help as my affairs are straight forward – no US involvement with property, investments etc. Not close to $2 million in assets either. Might be worth good advice if your affairs are more complex. I have been fortunate to have a cheap local guy do the taxes for the last 5 years. By the way, HR Block, believe it or not, might handle US tax filing from some offices. Made the mistake of using a big accounting firm once. That was $800 rather than $250 which is what I pay now. In any case, keep us posted on your CLN and anything worth passing on regarding that last form to file. I am a bit concerned about the FBAR as I have only filed paper copies before.
Got my CLN today!
Just one more 1040 and the 8854…
A big thanks to everyone on this blog who helped with this tortured process. Good luck to one and all…
@OKRDregs
Congratulations for your CLN. Its the Golden Ticket to freedom!
Congrats @OKRDregs!. Hope it didn’t take too long.
Good luck with the last steps.
@Islander, HRBlock might handle US filings from some of its offices, but I wonder how much training and competence their employees would have with this stuff – particularly the last filings like the 8854. You really have to beware and wary. That said, the expensive ‘professionals’ I used also made egregious errors. And those responsible for ‘reviewing’ the filings – and who missed the errors too, weren’t proactive or apologetic about even acknowledging that errors had occurred. Only two junior staff apologized. Not the higher priced ‘professionals’.
First of all, glad you have joined the CLN club, OKRDregs!
Badger, I can see why you would distrust a chain firm specializing in “el cheapo”. I have a friend who is a retired CA and has been working for HR Block during tax season to entertain herself. She is quite impressed with the courses before handling something semi complex. A lot of people in our shoes (desiring CLN’s) are straight forward middle income type of people who are/were employed. Could be a route for them. In any case, I think I will brave the 8854 myself since it has nothing to do with anything but holdings and mine are in a house and non US investment holdings.
I received a phone call from the Embassy (a voice mail asking me to call) which felt pretty spooky – what now? Turned out to be a friendly check that I had received my Express Post with the CLN documentation. Phew. Must say that I felt well dealt with by the Vancouver staff. No problems there.
Renounced on Nov 25 and haven’t received CLN yet. Is there anyone out there who renounced on or after Nov 25 who has already received CLN? Feeling a bit concerned about it taking longer than the 3 months reported by Islander and OKRDregs.
I found the blow by blow accounts good as it took the mystery out of the process. A good orientation. I have friends who paid a lawyer big bucks to relinquish. I would think that is often unnecessary especially with a practical way of shaping expectations. All the breast beating and activism is great but for someone who wants to relinquish/renounce this post was timely. I had tried to obtain an appointment for months when this how-to post started.
It’s now been more than 4 months since I renounced in Vancouver and still no CLN. Is there anyone out there who renounced in Vancouver Nov 25 or after who has received their CLN already? I am also trying to understand the options for filing my 2013 US tax return and 8854 in terms of whether it’s necessary to file dual status return (1040 up to Nov 25 and then 1040 NR for post-renunciation part of year)
even though no US residency or income for entire year, or just file 1040 for entire year which is apparently (according to other forums) allowable. And would FBAR be dated Nov 25 or Dec 31? Anyone have any info on this?