It’s been months since I’ve seen any availability for Vancouver appointments. Thanks to Cyal8rUS, who posted the following comment on the “About the Isaac Brock Society” page.
“If someone with authorship privileges would be able to blog this: The Vancouver US Consulate FINALLY has new appointments available for “other” ACS services. If you have been trying to book a renunciation appointment, get there quickly. …”
The Vancouver website says; “If you would like to make an appointment to renounce or relinquish your U.S. citizenship, please email VancouverCLN@state.gov ” So, I e-mailed that address a few minutes ago and got an immediate automated reply (very comprehensive with detailed instructions). Of particular interest is this paragraph [emphasis added]:
“IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.”
So: (1) only one visit is required, (2) you must book through Vancouver.CLN@state.gov (not through the online calendar).
Full text of the e-mail after the arrow.
“Thank you for contacting us regarding renouncing U.S. citizenship.
Please do not reply to this email. This inbox is not monitored.
Renunciation of U.S. citizenship must 1) be taken in the presence of a
diplomatic or consular officer; 2) be taken outside the United States;
and 3) be in the precise form prescribed by the Secretary of State. It
is an irrevocable action that cannot be reversed. Should you choose to
pursue renunciation of your U.S. citizenship, you will have to complete
form DS-4079 – Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United
States Citizenship and come to the Consulate to sign an “Oath of
Renunciation of the Nationality of the United States” and a “Statement
of Understanding”. These documents form the basis for the Department of
State’s decision regarding the U.S. citizen’s request to renounce
citizenship and are enclosed for your information.Please review these additional documents before scheduling an
appointment: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html> ), Right
of Residence in the U.S. (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html> ), and
Dual Nationality (
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
<http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html> ).On July 13, 2010 the Department of State implemented a fee of $450 for
administrative processing of formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship.
This fee is payable in either U.S. or Canadian dollars or by major
credit card on the day of your appointment.Once you have all forms filled out and you have gathered the required
evidence, please email vancouveracs@state.gov
<mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov> to schedule an appointment. Your email
should indicate that you read this email and that you have filled out
all your required forms and gathered all required supporting
documentation. Please include a contact phone number in your email.IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.At the time of your appointment you must bring:
–Completed and unsigned Form DS4079 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–-Completed Form DS4080 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–Completed Form DS4081 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf> )–Original proof of U.S. citizenship. See this website for information
on proof of U.S. citizenship and requirements for U.S. birth
certificates:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first
<http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first> .–Original proof of other citizenship (often a valid Canadian passport).
–Original evidence of name changes, if applicable (usually marriage
certificates of official name change document).–Your NEXUS card, if you have been issued one.
–Your U.S. Social Security Card, if you have one.
–The address of your last residence in the United States.
–Original evidence of your prior expatriating act if you are
documenting a prior relinquishment of U.S. citizenship (usually a
Canadian certificate of citizenship with the date you became a Canadian
citizen). This is not required if you are currently a U.S. citizen
renouncing your U.S. citizenship. Please see this link to learn about
the difference between relinquishment and renunciation (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html> ).–$450 for documentation of formal renunciation. We accept cash and
credit cards but do not accept debit or personal checks.Please refer to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) website
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-Statem
ent
<http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-State
ment> for information on U.S. federal tax form 8854 “Initial and Annual
Expatriation Information Statement”.Should you have any questions please send an e-mail to
vancouveracs@state.gov. <mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov.%20> “
Note Nov. 2013: No major changes since original posting, but for an update, see E hockin’s comment below regarding modification to this s/he received in November.
Thanks for posting this, @pacifica777.
I’m going to book my book my appointment ASAP.
Would GREATLY appreciate if folks could post about their experience at Vancouver consulate. Would that be in the comments here – or somewhere else on the site??
One (silly) question: how many folks actually consulted with a lawyer prior to deciding to renounce?
@ okdregs
Go to the upper right corner of the Brock main page and open “Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their consulate meetings)”. Then open the pdf link “Click here for the Consulate Report Directory”. Starting around page 66 are reports about the Vancouver consulate. It certainly looks like Vancouver is about to get better than what it has been in the past. Good luck!
@okdregs I don’t think you’d have any need to consult a lawyer prior to renouncing; we certainly didn’t do that. If you have tax issues however, it might be wise indeed to seek some financial advice. But insofar as the simple act of renouncing goes, it’s all straightforward and nothing for which legal assistance is necessary.
@okrdregs, as ozteddies says, no need to consult a lawyer. It’s just a simple ceremony where you swear/affirm that you want to give up your US citizenship. It takes all of 5 minutes and then say another 5 to sign the paperwork. That’s it. Don’t waste money talking to a lawyer when there’s no need.
This is the document you’ll be asked to sign:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120713112431/http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81606.pdf
There is also a Statement of Understanding document which also has to be signed:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf
In due course you’ll get your CLN. If you have any outstanding tax obligations get them done and then you through with the US.
Animal, I understand your apprehensions but as I understand it, consulates are not some sort of “sacred ground” and they are subject to Canadian laws the same as anywhere else in Canada. They cannot apprehend anyone or ship them anywhere without going through Canadian legal channels.
A year ago, when I went to the consulate in Toronto to inform them that I’d relinquished decades earlier, I was asked to fill out a supplemental form that asked for name, current address, phone number, social security number, current U.S. address, date of entry to Canada, and a few other things that I don’t recall. I was not asked for the social security card itself,
@okrdregs
Assuming you will not be a covered expat, then I’d agree with the others and say skip the lawyer.
If you would be a covered expat, then IMO that’s worth a conversation (even if it’s just with the folks here) unless you already understand the potential ramifications, and have determined there’s no way around it.
My 2 cents
@AnonAnon, re; “So I wonder why the Vancouver consulate has finally gone to all the trouble to accommodate such mythical creatures”
I envision a t-shirt that says “I am a mythical creature” with a picture of a unicorn holding up a US passport with a red X through it. Although I wouldn’t recommend wearing that to the ceremony at the embassy itself!
Remember photos of Vietnam draft resisters burning their draft cards made the news back in the day? I envision a ceremony with a group all burning large dummy US passport replicas in effigy en masse – like a performance art piece. All held up by people wearing signs or shirts saying “I am not a Myth”! Again, probably not a good idea to burn something right in front of the embassy or consulate.
@badger, yes, that could be part of the party for CLN holders that I hope to organize for next spring in Toronto. I don’t know about T-shirts, but certainly a large poster or two would be effective, especially if we can get press coverage.
badger, burning passports is an inspired idea. Might make a nice protest. Or shredding one. Could go along with Atticus’s “I am not a Myth” tumblr even.
@YogaGirl, here’s an idea for large placards – each person could hold a giant reproduction of a blue US passport made to fit a bristol board size, affixed to the usual stick. The passport could have mock orange, yellow and red flame cutouts coming out of the corner. The front of the US passport mockup would have FATCA added to the usual so that it is very clear the connection. That way, no actual fire is involved. I think we need some drama – inspired by the Raging Grannies,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raging_Grannies (ex. the “US taxable Grannies” of Ambassador Jacobson fame) or like Bread and Puppet http://www.npr.org/2013/08/24/214818319/bread-and-puppet-celebrates-50-years-of-paper-mache-and-protest or http://puppetvision.info/2012/11/monobamney-giant-puppets.html
Children could have placards saying “I am a Canadian citizen, but the US says I’m a ‘US taxable person’!”
@AnonAnon, that would be some party! May many get their CLNs by then.
Ok So Vancouver is open. Are people now working through the shut out?
Let me continue with my Toronto story.
I went in on the 29th of August to renounce, cash in hand and documents filled out. After a wait and many questions they told me I could relinquish – cool! Two weeks later they say I have to renounce or prove that I wasn’t living in a PO box that I had rented in the US for two years? So they want me back in Toronto – but I am half way around the world and a trip to Toronto will cost about $4000 that I do not have. I do not owe anything and the tax thing doesn’t scare me as I own nothing either. Their mistake may cost me $4000. I am trying to get the evidence they seek but I am far away. They have asked for tax receipts – ha, not likely! I have heard nothing for a while – I have been assuming that it is because of the shut down but now with this new Vancouver info I don’t know what to think. It would be great if they would send my file here but… there is a US consulate a short flight away. So now I am at a stand still. I would like to finish this but do not have the $4000 to fly back to Toronto. Are people now working in the offices? At least if I could get Toronto to send my docs to Vancouver it would only cost $2000 (on a seat sale). But if they were going to send them anywhere why not here?
Very frustrated right now:(
Hi everyone:
Vancouver timeline update:
Oct. 9: sent email requesting information – got automated response outlining renunciation procedure.
Oct. 10: sent email stating that paperwork complete, requesting appointment for renunciation
Oct. 23: received phone call, confirming my interest in renunciation. Confirmed, booked appointment for Nov. 19. Received email confirmation of appointment same day.
Thanks, Okrdregs,
That’s really good news to hear how things are actually going at Vancouver since we learned of their new procedure. An appt an Vancouver within 6 weeks of your first contact — a massive improvement — and, of course, you’ll get it all done in one meeting, so really glad to hear this.
That’s great news, Okrdregs! Now I may be able to save myself a flight to Calgary when the time comes.
One question: were you required to submit the completed paperwork or just tell them it was done? Wasn’t sure if submission was part of the Oct 10 email.
TIA
okrdregs – I have the first appointment of the day in Vancouver, Nov. 19. Same purpose – to renounce. Consulate person was very pleasant – good vibes so far. This web site has been extremely helpful. Thanks.
Tdott – just required to indicate that all the paperwork was completed. Need to bring them completed (not signed) to the appointment.
Islander – Yes, consulate staff very efficient and friendly. I have a morning appt too. See you at the consulate!
BTW, I would love to get recommendations of US tax experts in Vancouver who might help w/ form 8854. Want to get it right and get it out of the way when the time comes!
@oakdregs, good news! Let’s hope Vancouver keep up the good work.
You won’t be able to do the 8854 just yet as it’s only out in draft form at present. You could have a look at the 2012 version though, I doubt it’s going to change much.
Vancouver has changed renunciation appointment protocol as of this past week. The first step is the same (i.e., email VancouverCLN@state.gov to initiate the process) but the auto reply with further instructions has changed. You now have to complete and attach two forms to your appointment request email (the one that goes to vancouveracs@state.gov): a 1 page Loss of Nationality Questionnaire and Form DS4079. You are also now instructed to bring a pre-paid Canada Post Xpresspost envelope with you to the appointment along with the other required documentation.
@ E hockin,
Thanks for the update! I put a link to your comment at the end of the original post.
I renounced at Vancouver yesterday!
Went very smoothly: about 90 minutes from start to finish, including getting through security. I allowed for extra time for security, so arrived early and that may have helped.
Everything was done at the counters: double-checking all the paperwork with staff member, paying $450 fee at cashier, waiting while all paperwork was prepared for consul’s checking & signatures (30 minutes), ten minutes with the consul himself that included confirmation I was acting of my own free will, reason for renunciation (I prepared a written statement), and the actual oath of renunciation (no flag anywhere!). He also warned me about complying with IRS regulations and that I would now be treated as a visitor upon entry into US. Finally, five minutes or less with the same staff person I first saw to double-check the paperwork file they were sending to Washington.
Staff were totally courteous and professional.
To confirm: everything processed in one meeting. I was told to expect 3 months processing time to get CLN and to hold on to my consular fee receipt until then. I will get a copy of all the documents along with the CLN, as well as my cancelled US passport in the same Xpresspost envelope.
I feel like a huge burden has been (half) lifted from my shoulders – “just” 8854 left…
BTW, staff person suggesting including copy of CLN with forms 8854 and final 1040NR to the IRS to wrap things up neatly.
Thanks to everyone at Isaac Brock for your help/feedback in making this necessary decision.
Congratulations, OKDregs!
Thanks for sharing your story. I’ll add it to the directory — and what a pleasure — this is the first report from Vancouver since they fixed their procedure. About six weeks from your first e-mail to the consulate, if I remember correctly, to completely renounced. What a welcome improvement!
Same experience as OKDregs in renouncing, only a bit earlier in the day. Only wrinkle was that when deciding if I was relinquishing and renouncing, my Canadian Certificate of Citizenship was found to be a copy and for relinquishing the original is required. However, since the staff found I had voted (for Obama in 2008) I had to renounce and then the date was no issue. I happily paid the $450 and got on with the process. No problems after that heart stopping moment with the certificate. Ironically, I found the original misfiled at home upon my return. Oh the devil is in the details. Hope to be able to do that IRS form satisfactorily. Have filed for 5 years already. Understand I need to file this year as well. In my excited state of mind, I heard “6 months” for me to get my CLN, not “3” as OKDregs heard. Whenever it comes I will be happy. What a weight off my shoulders to have come at least this far. Treatment by the staff was exemplary. No complaints there. Yes, many thanks for this excellent site and the information gleaned from it. Without it too easy to believe a lawyer is required, and other misinformation. Will post a short message when I am free at last.
@ Islander,
Congratuations! I’m glad you had a positive experience. Sorry that you were not able to relinquish, but really glad that all worked out anyway and you’re free!
Thanks for sharing your story. I added it to the Directory.