The Globe and Mail reports that the players at the current G20, when not posturing about the coming US war on Syria, have agreed to share tax information.
Why?
Well, we know why. Tax cheats! They are everywhere.
One positive in the article is that it mentioned FATCA and the privacy concerns Canada has about it.
So Harper folded. There are “privacy concerns” but, who cares! So when is the law suit? I just don’t have the energy to comment on that thread today. We’re thrown under the bus and Flagherty, Jacobson and all the rest lied through their teeth. Defending Canada has been reduced to “privacy concerns” Glad my appointment to renounce is the 26th of this month.
Oxfam is rejoicing over this on twitter. I never thought I would see the day that left leaning organizations wold laud the freaking G20 when usually they are marching in the streets being kettled over everything this meeting sells to the public. The world has gone looney, up is down and down is up.
This isn’t FATCA though. It’s tax reporting and if I understand our tax treaty with the US correctly, the CRA does this now.
It’s also my understanding that the Canadian govt shares info with the US that lets them know if a USC has opened a financial account of some kind too.
These things are why Canada objected to FATCA. Our treaty already provides them with the info they want EXCEPT if doesn’t share account numbers or balances (aside from interest probably). And this is the real problem with FATCA. It’s not about catching cheats as much as it is about gathering info for an inventory of assets of people living outside the US.
Harper isn’t caving in this case. This is already the reality.
But I think it is a sign that the US recognizes it needs another avenue than FATCA b/c their pet project is hitting some serious walls. This is just a stepping stone.
However, I could be totally wrong and someone will correct me if I am.
@Yoga girl,
Thanks for pointing out the Globe article. I have just read the article and agree with you. ‘Tax reporting’ is not referring to FATCA. The article mentions that the G20 countries agreed to work out the details thru 2014 and try to implement by 2015. Pro ably too ambitious as the article itself mentions. I agree with you – nowhere in the article do I get the feeling that Harper is about to throw anyone under the bus.
I for one hope that this agreement will suffice to replace FATCA and allow the US to save face. I have no reason to believe this though and at this point it’s just wishful thinking.
Here is a joint Statement with the Socialist Republics of EU plus USA…
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/09/04/joint-statement-kingdom-denmark-republic-finland-republic-iceland-kingdo
Notice that stopping Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion are put into the same sentence and get equal billing. One legal, one illegal, and they don’t want you do to either, so GATCA is the answer?? Maybe those homelanders will have to give up their home interest and charity deductions which are legal tax avoidance. Oh, never mind. Just kidding. 🙂
No one has yet explained to me about how they avoid the conflict of an OECD concept of GATCA and US imposed FATCA when Territorial butts up against Citizenship taxation. Will the US go with the “International norms” (the favorite term for why we have to attack Syria) and back off FATCA demands to go with the OECD version of GATCA? Think NOT!
@Yoga girl: “This isn’t FATCA though. It’s tax reporting and if I understand our tax treaty with the US correctly, the CRA does this now.”
Then what is Canada agreeing to that it isn’t already doing? What would be the need to sign this if we already have a treaty to share information? That is if FATCA is not being accepted by Canada? U.S. is never going to share the data they are asking of others. What are they pulling here and how will Harper sell this?
Harper looks like he isn’t fully on board yet
At the conclusion of the summit, Prime Minister Stephen Harper called the tax exchange agreement “extremely positive,” even though concerns remain to be addressed.
“Obviously there are many details to be worked out,” he said. “I think we’ll find as we go forward in discussions that those kinds of difficulties, or potential difficulties, those concerns will also be shared by a number of our partner countries so I’m confident that we can move forward on this in a way that’s positive for everyone.”
A proposed U.S. law requiring foreign governments – including Canada – to report banking information involving U.S. citizens has already ran into concerns from the Canadian government and attracted the attention of Canada’s privacy commissioner.
Questions of privacy will likely increase given that the G20 includes non-democratic countries where human rights are a concern, including China and Saudi Arabia.
While the political attention in St. Petersburg has focused on the crisis in Syria, the G20 releases numerous pages of communiqués, action plans and annex reports on their economic plans.
Atticus, The US wants banking info that would essentially allow them the same access to your account as you have. The CRA merely tells them the income and interest you reported on your tax forms every year and Canada shares the fact that you have accounts. Nothing that would allow the IRS to snoop on its own.
So basically this forces the IRS to got through legal hoops to get detailed info if they suspect you of a tax crime, which they don’t have the time or resources for. FATCA would allow them complete access and they could use software to snoop for “possible” crimes.
Tim, I agree. Harper isn’t finished with evasive action just yet. I find him puzzling this last year b/c he really appears to be trying in terms of fighting off US overreach and sovereignty breach. Of course, when you are battling an opponent 10x your size, it’s not going to look like much of a fight to bystanders.
@Yoga Girl, thank you for your explanation. I am so over loaded with details and figures at the moment it is so easy for my addled brain to get lost in all of this.
I sure wish Harper would let US know what’s going to be for or against FATCA soon.
Atticus, I think if Harper could just say no, he would but the US doesn’t take no very well and is in a position to make life suck for us in terms of strangling border traffic, which is a favorite of theirs. Rock and a hard place and USP’s sandwiched in there with Harper. Not the coziest of places. We should take some comfort from the stalling and delays at this point.
Personally, I am done panicking. I have my plan and am pretty sure it will suit.
I have a feeling that the current admin is going to have more on its mind than hunting down “grannies in Canada” fairly soon. Syria is a lose/lose for Obama either way it plays out and frankly it surprises me that he is going down so early and easily in his second term.
From Tim’s post above, Harper:
“Obviously there are many details to be worked out,” he said. “I think we’ll find as we go forward in discussions that those kinds of difficulties, or potential difficulties, those concerns will also be shared by a number of our partner countries so I’m confident that we can move forward on this in a way that’s positive for everyone.”
I just watched Harper give those words, or something like them, in response to a G&M reporter’s question, mentioning duals in Canada. In my opinion, from Harper’s face, along with his words, he’s none too pleased about US extra-territorial reach for Canadians’ money, or information. I’m betting Flaherty (CRA will not collect on duals, if incurred while Canadian residents) is backed strongly by Harper. I would also bet this is the cause of the IGA signing delay. Harper has never struck me as a wimp negotiator.
‘Personally, I am done panicking. I have my plan and am pretty sure it will suit.’
me too.
The Mom, I know people think that Canada is rolling over but I have the same impression as you. The lack of any hard info is a result of the fact this “negotiation” is far from done deal.
A tax info exchange is far better than our banks handing us over lock, stock and barrel. The US wants info as much or more than it wants money, whether it is tax or fines. Info is for long game. Whatever that might be.
I tried posting twice at Global and Mail and neither have shown up.. Here was my last attempt…
Instead of calling governments ‘Cash Strapped’, why not call it like it is, they are “Over Spent” Why do we want to give them any additional auto spending help with their over spending ways, is something you should really think long and hard about.
FATCA has been the driving force for all this OECD nonsense. You don’t need a global GATCA to end “evasion”, as just good ole Department of Justice work is very effective.
You don’t need a global GATCA to end “avoidance”, as simple Tax Reform is very effective.
So, what is this all about then? It is global control, and it is riding on the back of U.S. unilateral FATCA extortion. If you like NSA spying, then you will love these automatic exchanges that will be come easy hacking fodder for the NSA!
I am not done panicking.. LOL! You guys are a GREAT help though.
I might have modified my comment at G&M a bit if I’d read here first but what the heck — this “automatic exchange” (details to be pronounced later I presume) is getting so close to being GATCA that if it isn’t quite there yet, it will be as time goes by IF we the sheeple nod off as we are often inclined to do. That’s how the game works — they pounce a bit, we react, we doze, they pounce a bit more AND repeat. We have to keep our eyes wide open ALL the time. BTW, I think the mad hatter moderator nodded off too because my comment slipped by him/her this time.
I’m trying to work out a plan for myself but it looks more like a stupid loop than an arrow at this point.
“Minister Flagherty to make an announcement.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/notices-avis13/2013-09-06-eng.asp
Minister of Finance Jim Flaherty will be making an announcement on Monday, September 9, 2013.
The announcement will take place at 10:30 a.m. on the grounds of Ottawa Camping Trailers, 4815 Bank Street, in Ottawa, Ontario.
For further information:
Kathleen Perchaluk
Press Secretary
Office of the Minister of Finance
613-996-7861
Jack Aubry
Media Relations
Department of Finance
613-996-8080″
On the grounds of Ottawa Camping Trailers? I used to live in Ottawa but, am not sure where this is. I may go. It’s Monday morning so would be a bit of a pita to arrange on such short notice but,….would like to be there with my “NO TO FATCA” protest.
I googled it and it’s an actual business that sells trailers. What on earth could he be announcing there? The government is going to be selling campers to make ends meet?
LOL! @Yoga Girl, yes I was thinking the same thing? What an odd place to make an announcement? At such a place surely it can’t be something earth shaking? Why not just say up front what it is about? Sometimes this government is so secretive. I just want to know ahead of time what this is regarding? He wants all Canadians to invest in trailers? Tax incentives for doing so? lol! I don’t know!
Internment camps for USP’s in Canada.
Maybe instead of housing allowances for MP’s and Senators, the govt is buying trailers and parking them near Parliament?
G20 ENDS ABRUPTLY AS OBAMA CALLS PUTIN A JACKASS
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/09/g20-ends-abruptly-as-obama-calls-putin-a-jackass.html
Just a little comic relief…
I just checked out Minister Flaherty’s announcement site on goole maps and what the heck? Is he buying a camper and going fishing with some parliamentary perogies in his pocket? I abhor all this secrecy (Pres. Kennedy warned us about this). Now the secret TPP (Toilet Paper Plot as I call it) negotiations are SUPER secret TPP negotiations. I don’t think even the secret negotiators are allowed to know when, where and what. All they know is how — secretly of course!
Well, maybe he’s going on vacation to Algonquin Park immediately following this announcement. He’s going to round us all up as Bubblebustin says? As long as we get to go to a nice place by the lake what could be so bad? lol.
This CAN’T be of any significance to us due to the location. It MUST be to do with labour or some other issue. Well, nice announcement with little information anyway.