Toronto Star, 31 July 2013:
“The United States wants its police officers to be exempt from Canadian law if they agree to take part in a highly touted cross-border policing initiative, an internal RCMP memo says. … The debate over whose laws would apply to U.S. officers working in Canada raises important questions of sovereignty and police accountability, says the briefing note prepared for RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson.”
Does this have implications for anyone who winds up in trouble/penalties over tax issues? Is Canada a sovereign country or is Canada the 51st State? Some people call that country on our southern border the United States of Arrogance (I picked up that appropriate term from Blaze) What could be more arrogant than wanting to be exempt from a country’s law, and use your own country’s law, when you are in their country?
In 1812, the US attempted to invade us in a concrete physical way. Didn’t work. Two hundred years later, they are attempting to invade us in an invisible way, little-by-little, and impose their law on us and they have the arrogance to think that Americans should be exempt from our law when they’re in our country. We are not the 51st State, we are not a US colony, and we are not a US police protectorate.
Thanks to Lora and Schubert for discovering this news, which can be read at:
And for further details and discussion on this programme also see Noble Dreamer’s post on this topic from last summer.
The particular development in today’s news is that they’re trying to get exempted from Canadian law whilst in Canada. This programme sounded problematic to begin with, and this implementation-of-US-law-in-Canada proposal sounds more similar to an occupying force than a partnership.
HELL ~expletive~ NO!!!
I saw this earlier today too and was shocked by it! So they want to control the policing laws, having us use theirs not ours AND the banking laws. Forget the border, it’s useless. If they control the policing laws and the banking laws they DO control Canada.
I also wonder if those police coming over the border have any tax or fine and fee implications. Sure Canada says it won’t collect fines on FBAR but, what if they are going to allow the U.S. to get these people for unpaid monies owed. Sounds far fetched I know. So does FATCA. I’m getting a very uneasy feeling about what the U.S. is doing with all this spying, FATCA imposition on the world and policing everyone else everywhere. I mean they have the goods if they have all your emails, phone records and banking data. They can then do as they please. Something is very wrong here with the leaders in that country.
People are lulled to sleep about all this. It IS looking exactly like the tactics of East Germany. Canadian politicians need to wake up and stop being so lilly livered with that southern neighbour. I’d rather take our chances with the Chinese at this point.
Shortly before calling this story to the attention of Pacifica and several other Brock friends, I sent the following email to the PM, my MP and the opposition party leaders about this story:
“I am absolutely opposed to any exemption from Canadian law of US law enforcement, security or military personnel operating on Canadian soil. That would be a total violation of Canada’s sovereignty. Any agreement by any Canadian government to something like this would, in my opinion, be akin to an act of treason — a sell-out of our sovereignty to the Americans. No cross-border economic “benefits” can possibly justify something like this. I will hold you personally accountable (and also your political parties) in the next election for whatever stance and actions you and your parties take on this matter, as I suspect will a lot of my fellow Canadians.”
To my family and friends in the US I sent the following message:
“If you were in any lingering doubt of American imperialist arrogance being continued by the Obama administration, read the link below. Canada and the US have been negotiating cross-border policing operations at the border, supposedly to facilitate cross-border tourism and commerce, but now the US wants its cross-border officers operating on Canadian sovereign soil to be exempt from Canadian law while operating on our soil. Do you imagine for a second the Obama administration would accept a parallel demand from Canada for its officers on US soil to be exempt from US law? Would the American people accept that? Why does anyone in the Obama administration dream for a second this would be acceptable to Canadians?” Or, I might add, to the citizens of any other country on this planet.
I forget which major UK publication it was, The Guardian or The Economist, that a few months ago described Obama, with respect to foreign and military policy issues, as “George W. Bush on steroids.” I don’t think that’s an exaggeration, and it doesn’t flatter either of those two presidents.
The implications and extensions of this US demand, re IRS and taxation, are rather obvious.
Maybe your US family and friends are already converted, maybe they are so wedded to US “exceptionalism” they can’t listen any more, maybe it won’t matter, but I think it’s important that former USPs living overseas ensure their US friends and family are aware of examples like this. It may or may not change anything to keep them informed, but it certainly won’t change anything if we all sit quietly and say nothing about these outrages. And you can bet your last dollar that the so-called “free” mainstream US press aren’t covering stories like this and reporting them to Americans.
At the very least, make sure your MP and your neighbours are aware of this story and of what you think about it. To paraphrase a famous aphorism: all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to say and do nothing when evil raises its head.
The Canadian Civil Liberties Assn are concerned about it too.
I’d read that US border police would be allowed to make 50 mile incursions into Canada. If this is true, that’s pretty much into every major city in Canada.
oops the link to CCLA on this issue:
http://ccla.org/canada-u-s-security-perimeter/
Daniel Ellsberg once said “We weren’t ON the wrong side, we ARE the wrong side.” with regard to the Vietnam war. And still today the U.S. imperialism IS the wrong side. On all of these recent issues and over reaches into the privacy, sovereignty of other nations, bullying and lying about what they are doing. Obama is worse than Nixon.
Pingback: US Wants Its Police in Canada and Exempt from Canadian Law | The Freedom Watch
Tweeted another article on the same subject:
More Outrageous Overreach from the US: American Cops in Canada Exempt from CDN law WHAT? http://tinyurl.com/m7ahxxg
6:18 PM – 31 Jul 13 · Details
Can you imagine the uproar if/when(?) they come up with someone who has shown up in their database as a terrorist and arrest someone who is Canadian or say, dual Canadian-Syrian (i.e., not a USC)? We all know of the problems regarding the no-fly-list: no evidence whatsoever is required to be put on and one has no recourse to appeal,, etc.
I fail to understand how the Harper government thinks it can continue to acquiese to the US at the expense of the Canadian people. This needs attention and definitely before the next election.
Question-what sort of provisions exist in Canadian law for reversing older laws? Or however that should be said……
The US has a serious problem with the concept of sovereign nation. It thinks IT’S the only REAL country in the world. All the others are just vacation spots with their quaint old buildings, pretty food, annoying languages, colorful money, and archaic governments.
On another note, I’m wondering why 2 companies are trying to track me on this site…
This is unreal. There is so much I am tempted to say, but I suspect it’s wiser not to.
To answer nobledreamer’s question above, “Can you imagine the uproar if/when(?) they come up with someone who has shown up in their database as a terrorist and arrest someone who is Canadian or say, dual Canadian-Syrian (i.e., not a USC)?”
Yes, I can imagine the uproar. It will be about as loud as a gnat’s fart in a category 5 hurricane. It will rival the fearsome uproar over FATCA, FBARs, IGAs. Can you hear it now? No? Exactly my point. This is how the world ends, not with a bang, not even a whimper, just a tiny, imperceptible squeak. Obama’s fully lubed-up love-gun sliding furiously in and out of Harper’s throbbing rectum would make more noise than either of these events. Zzzzzzz, is it over?
This isn’t a family channel, is it?
Forgive me, friends. I must apologize profusely for my grievous error above.
I meant to write, “Obama’s fully lubed-up love-gun sliding furiously in and out of Harper’s throbbing rectum MAKES more noise than either of these events,” NOT “would make more noise…” It absolutely needed to be written in the present tense, not the conditional, because this bromantic act between our oh-so-inspiring leaders is clearly something that is occurring on an almost nightly basis. Perhaps they also arrange some lunch-hour trysts for balance; one can only imagine their ardour cannot be denied for more than a few hours at a time.
Meanwhile the police in Sweden are abusing both citizens and visitors
It is obvious what law they wish to be exempt from: the gun laws in Canada which would stop US persons from carrying. There are also laws against discharging weapons in urban areas and against using non-proportionate force in response to a crime. Any number of charges could be made against a US law enforcement officer who has no jurisdiction in Canada. They want the right to come up here and act as though they are still in the United States, violently arrest a
tax evadersterrorists and take them back to US.Apparently IRS agents in Panama are armed. (I read that somewhere–probably Mark Nestmann). How long before IRS agents in Canada start knocking on doors within 50 miles of the border?
The simple fact that there are people thinking that “this is OK” makes me wonder. I don’t think that Canada’s sovereignty means much to those kind of people any longer. And what would the military veterans of this country think when they fought and shed their blood during WWII. They wouldn’t have wanted Canada to fall into the hands of the Americans. How long before all the US law enforcement and military decide that Canada is fair game and ripe for picking off to become the 51st State in the Union? I think it’s time for Canadian patriots to gather their own guns and stand at the border saying “You have no right to cross over with your guns or demand that our country’s laws be exempt to your uniformed “terrorists”. This Obama gets worse and worse. And I didn’t like the b******d to begin with.
@The_animal
You are correct that Canada’s sovereignty is being infringed by the U.S. It is also clear that very few Canadians care. The Harper Government is clearly not willing to stand up for Canada.
At this rate Canada will simply become an “occupied power” or perhaps a U.S. colony.
Here is a thought:
Perhaps the time has come for Mr. Harper (surely with the agreement of Mr. Mulcair and Justin) to consider offering to become the 51st state. All Canadians would no be U.S. citizens and Canada would cease to be offshore. Mr. Harper can become the new “Governor of Canada”. The RCMP would become “State Police”.
That way all of these issues would go away.
If Canada were to become the 51st then there would no longer be U.S. persons in Canada. There would be no longer any foreign bank accounts. There would no longer be a border to defend, etc. …
If Canadians and the Government of Canada are unwilling to defend Canada (and they are not) then rather than watch a slow and steady occupation then perhaps accept (no actually offer) the inevitable.
Now here is an advantage. As you know about half of Americans don’t pay taxes. This is why the IRS just look to the rest of the world (including Canada) to broaden its tax base. If Canada were to become the 51st state, then half of Canadians would no longer pay taxes either (this is how Harper can sell the idea to Canadians).
Then the newly expanded U.S. (united with Canada) can continue their quest to “Boldly Go” and colonize the rest of the world with 33 million new U.S. persons to leave (Trojan Horse style) in other countries.
Unless the people and Government of Canada make a conscious decision to defend the sovereignty of Canada, Canadians will be forced to choose between:
A. Being an occupied power and administrative region of the U.S.; or
B. Joining the U.S. and becoming the 51st state (or perhaps a territory).
Really an action plan is required.
As President Kennedy once said:
What do you think? Does this idea have merit?
Afterthought: Why renounce if you will seen be a U.S. citizen again anyway.
@Mark Twain
Whaaaat? Doesn’t Sweden have donut shops?
Thanks for highlighting this, Pacifica. We here can all see the parallels with FATCA.
That is what we will LET happen if we don’t all wake up. Give the US an inch and it will take miles and millions from our Canadian country. Knocking on doors of US Persons in Canada does not at all seem to me an impossibility. We cannot let our Canadian government do this to every Canadian — letting the US police in Canada under their rules and let FATCA suck money from US Persons in Canada, the banks and, thus, ALL Canadians.
Fika med Kanelbullar och kafe.. I’ve watched the Swedish police de-escalate many situations according to their training. They approach drunks and drug addicts just like Andy Griffith with good results. They failed at the G8 meeting back in 2002 when they used opposite tactics with the crowd due to poor training in that area. They also fail to solve any crime lesser than murder, but they file lots of reports. They don’t pay many to work nights, so they run roadside sobriety checks in the morning when the Jacks are trying to slip out the back.
There are a couple of pieces to this story from my past faded knowledge.
1. Canada quite famously shortly after the end of World War II basically kicked all US military personnel out of the country. Most were working on construction of the Alaska highway which had a somewhat dubious track record vis a vis Canadian sovereignty. (The US started construction of the highway without asking permission of Canada in the early days of World War II. On the other hand one might argue the Alaska Highway benefits Canadian sovereignty more than American. Most commerce between Alaska and the mainland US goes by ship but the highway gives Canada land access to Yukon and parts of the Northwest territories).
2. Newfoundland was NOT part of Canada in 1945 and would not become part of Canada for several years. As a British Colony essentially the US with London’s approval had opened several military bases as part of the late 1930s lend lease program which remained open after 1945. When Newfoundland finally became part of Canada Ottawa essentially had no choice but to keep the American bases open.
3. In 1951 after Newfoundland’s arrival into Canada a treaty was signed between the US and Canada allowing US service members to be exempt from Canadian law but only for “military crimes” and only applying to military members. This treaty is a forerunner to all sorts of other agreements the US has with Britain, Germany, Japan etc. From the US standpoint it is considered limited and “out of date.” Pejorative terms from the US perspective.
4. What is being proposed in the original article requires Parliamentary approval. Yes Harper has a majority government but pressure can be applied in the right places. Remember Ontario and Quebec have their own police forces who have criminal code jurisdiction. Harper on his own(without Parliament) can’t give a get out of jail free card for US police without the approval of Kathleen Wynne and Pauline Marois. In fact another article this morning said the US Customs agents at the Peace Bridge would be under the supervision of armed OPP officers at all times.
After reading the “proposal” re cross border police “cooperation” I immediately forwarded the link to a couple of Canadian friends – this type of “cooperation” should be immediately dissuaded before it becomes “an offer you (Canada) can’t refuse” – spread the word and get all Candians aware of this – also please post any links that may indicate the same “proposal” to EU countries.
Let me see if I got this right….
The US wants to have their police officers on Canadian soil, and not have them answer to Canadian laws, eh?
BULLSHIT!!
“If Canada were to become the 51st then there would no longer be U.S. persons in Canada. There would be no longer any foreign bank accounts.”
But we would still be on the hook for all the FBARs that we didn’t file while we were a “foreign” country and still be subject to FATCA and thus be criminally liable. Think this through first. Just because we become the 51st state, doesn’t mean all or ANY of our problems go away.
…the bright side is we can all take up a cell-block and commiserate in silence, while the murderers and rapists heckle us from the corridors.
The US attempts to assimilate Canada, and the Harper government assent to assimilation continues at the border – goal to track the movements of every single individual, adult or child – even Canadian citizens.
Oh Canada, who stands on guard for thee?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/11/04/ottawa_to_assess_canadaus_data_sharing_project.html
“….OTTAWA–The federal government is commissioning an independent review of a data sharing project with the United States that aims to track every man, woman and child travelling across the border.
The Canada Border Services Agency said Monday it will require an independent assessment of the Entry/Exit Initiative, a $139-million project announced as part of the 2011 Beyond the Border agreement with the U.S. The review is required before moving to the next phase of the initiative.
The Entry/Exit Initiative is meant to establish a shared system between CBSA and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security for biographical data on those travelling across the border”….
……..”Phase three, expected to begin by June 30, 2014 will expand the scope to all people travelling through land border crossings, including Canadian citizens. CBSA hopes to include data on everyone travelling via airplane by mid-2014.”…..
@ badger
I’ve never been able to figure out how to register to log in at the Star and I don’t care to now, just for one comment, but if I could have I would have posted this …
Canadians! Get a spine! Show your outrage! Tell Harper this has already gone too far. Data sharing of any kind with the untrustworthy U.S.A. needs to STOP. Canada is either a sovereign nation or it is not and right now it’s looking very much like the latter. We don’t want the NSA creating a data dossier on everyone and we don’t want a U.S. FATCA law dictating to OUR financial institutions that they must report personal banking information on Canadian residents to the I.R.S. either.