In January the Isaac Brock Society commented on the question: Has your life been stolen from you by the IRS? That post generated a lot of comments. We are now one year into the IRS attack on U.S. citizens abroad.
In my post, directed to Joe Green, I commented that:
I venture to say that many U.S. citizens abroad are not even the same people they were a year ago.
Marketpinetree left the following comment:
Markpinetree
*This applies to me: ” I venture to say that many U.S. citizens abroad are not even the same people they were a year ago.” My life is now a nightmare and I still don´t know what I can/should do to regain some peace and a full night´s sleep. It started in 2009 when, by chance I learned abour FBARs and from that time on it has become more and more disturbed affecting me, my family and my work.
In what way(s) has your experience with the IRS changed the kind of person you are? Do your friends recognize you?
How am I doing, you ask? Unemployed, refused interviews because of where I was born, insecure in the interviews I get, always looking over my shoulder and being careful about what I say and don’t say to banks and officials, on the verge of divorce with a spouse who cannot fathom why all of this is happening. Depressed, shrink says I should take medication but I don’t want to mellow my keen discernment, might need it when the IRS really comes after the little that I still have after busting my a** for half a lifetime to earn my keep and save for retirement. I had a heart attack 6 years ago (in my 30s) and can’t even climb stairs without panting. This whole extraterritorial taxation and FATCA business makes all of my conditions worse, but I know I am right in opposing it: at the end the day the effect is similar to that of the Nueremberg laws of the 30s in Germany. NEVER AGAIN.
Since approximately 2009, when the s**t really hit the fan with FBAR enforcement, I have not been them same. But I will not negotiate. Liberty or death.
My primary education in the US taught me the true democratic values of the US, and of modern democracy in general. I will not stray from these values and those that do not respect these values are my mortal enemies— I will stop them or at least make them look like clowns, even if it takes the rest of my life. If they come to butcher me, or put me in the ghetto, I will be ready: remember the Warsaw Ghetto, remember Sobibor. I will not be kristalnachted! I owe that to prosperity. We cannot be complacent, democracy requires constant monitoring of the stewpot. As an educated citizen, one has the duty to work to preserve democracy.
We’ve got to bloody learn from history and not repeat the same bulls**t!
(I think I censored out of all of the cursewords above, if I missed one, sorry, but I am really p’d off).
*I don’t think it is ever possible to become “naive” again. Certianly not after after being thrust so rudely, so unexepectedly, vis-a-vis my birth country and the monstrous way that it has viewed me and continues to regard me now after 15 years of living outside its borders. The shock of it all, the worry, the anger, has been horrible. For me. For all of us.
That being said there is one thing I can say that I truly thank them (ALL of them in Washington, D.C.) for and that is I no longer live for, plan for, or put off for…….the future. I live supremely in the present moment. The sharpness, the sweetness, the bitterness of life and living in these decadent and dying times of democracy cuts like a razor and it is an agony. Perhaps we expats are the first Americans/duals to feel it and to be a part of this very dark period of history.
I would say that many of us are survivors and we shall endure this persecution, difficult as it is. We shall endure it, and then…. be free of it. It certianly can make our lives more perilous but there is a part of us, a very special territory within us that it will never touch. And we will never allow to.
We have come far here at the IBS. (Bless you, Petros for all that fire within you that kindled this site!) Yet, our future still is murky. Our worst enemy and we all know this, and we know that this more than anything else is what “they” rely on to manipulate, control us, cause us to become rash or reckless… is: FEAR. That more than anything else is what we need to master…
But it hasn’t been easy for any of us. I imagine “Just Me” would have rather tended his garden these past few years instead of having been the “Dear Abby/Ann Landers” of the expat tax scene. But you know, “Just Me” I for one cannot begin to convey to you what “pearls of wisdom”, what soothing balm you have provided to me these past dreary months. You have become our “Den Mother” (forgive me) and that’s a gift and a rare one that perhaps you yourself would have never realised had you been instead cultivating your garden! Thank you so very, very much.
And then there’s the previously hard-boiled (yet lovable) Mr. Mopsick whose yolk has become a bit more soft-boiled for our cause. And needless to say….the humanity of Nina Olson.
Hold fast, fellow Brockers. There has been such goodness in this sea of evil. May it forever prevail…..
“Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans.” (John Lennon)
Who among us would have thought our lives would have been turned so upside down by a country many of us left years or decades ago.
As I was busy making plans for retirement, US suddenly announced it wanted to reclaim me and my money after I had firmly believed we had been legally divorced for 40 years. I continue to believe I “permanently and irrevocably” severed our relationship decades ago, but I still feel like I am being constantly stalked and taunted by a former vindictive spouse.
I feel more Canadian than I have ever felt before — not because I have had a rush of pride in Canada (I’m as critical of this country as I have ever been) but because my vague tie to the USA (expired kryptonite card) has caused me some real concern and subsequently my defensive hackles have risen and I find myself reasserting my Canadian identity. Although many Brockers find themselves in the position of having to renounce the USA, I have the right I believe to denounce it for the havoc it is creating around the world with first and foremost the military destruction of other nations and now the financial destruction of its own citizens abroad and what should have been happy potential citizens at home (wait until they find out about the FWhats).
It must have been this feeling more Canadian thing that prompted me to actually celebrate Canada Day this year — most years I just let it ride since I generally view public displays of nationalism to be unnecessary and a bit creepy in some ways — besides there are Brockers with CLNs in their hand whose freedom from one country at least gave me cause to celebrate. Just as people must earn my trust, my country must earn my pride in it. This pride is hard to summon up sincerely with Canada slip sliding into the globalism morass and abandoning even a pretense at being a “peace keeper” in the world. The USA is such a mess in so many ways, I won’t even go there. I watch it closely though because Canada too often adopts the worst of what is in the USA and specifically I’m thinking about the disgrace of the G8/G20 police action.
And what Will said about Petros and Just Me — DITTO!
Do my friends recognize me? In a word, no, as I have pretty much cut myself off from friends (and some of my family) so not to subject them to my repeated descriptions of what this really is. They worry about me too much, so perhaps it’s easier this way. I know it isn’t entirely healthy and I will try to reconnect when I am certain that my and my family’s situation is resolved so I can move forward.
I am 68, in retirement. If I knew all this was going to happen, I may have stayed in the work force a bit longer to have a better financial cushion. As it is, I am fortunate that I scrimped and saved over the years of working in an administrative role and have some funds saved for retirement to use for the professionals I need to help me as I can’t figure it all out by myself. I know that so many with similar life stories to mine do not have that extra little bit and it all may be devastating for them.
I have concentrated on taking care of my health through all this and have been pretty successful in staying healthy, as stress is greatly involved in Crohn’s Disease. I’m dealing with things much better than I did at the gob-smacking start with the support of a wonderful husband and lawyers and accountants that I do trust. Trust, what an important concept for us all, having lost it to what we thought / were ‘taught’ the US was.
So much of my support, knowledge and sanity has come from all of you through the months we have been discussing various aspects of our common problem and our individual decisions in what best to do. That really has been such a positive aspect through it all and I hope we can continue to help others from their OMG moment to when they can feel better in control.
Thanks, Petros. Thanks everyone. It is strange for me to feel such a kinship to people I haven’t met in person — and I treasure the visits with ones that I have had the privilege to chat with over coffee or a meal.
Last year this time when I first jumped into OVDI, I was begging IRS to punish my RRSP at lower rate of 5%. I would be so grateful to have FBAR sin resolved.
Now, I know RRSP is off the penalty base, and I am about to get what I had dreamed for last year, that is to reduce penalty to 12.5% on non-RRSP.
While I should have been content but I am no longer the same person of last year. I become greedy — and I want to have 0 FBAR penalty — and I want to opt-out from OVDI.
Of course, Just Me, Moby have changed the way I look at this program.
The bottom line is that I am just as innocent as Tim Gaithner and I have the decency to correct my mistake of the past. I don’t see there is a justification of 12.5% penalty on what I worked for 10 years in Canada before I came to US. Yes, I failed to disclose them in time, but I did not hide in secrecy and I have disclosed them after learning this requirement.
I am certainly not the same person as I was last year, and thank you Just Me and many others..
Late summer 2011 saw crystallization of an intention to bring an end to uncertainties and difficulties that only promised to grow. Only one night of bad sleep. Thereafter, action coupled with excruciating waiting. Not an unfamiliar pattern. Principle: don’t close off an option unless there seems to be no more option — then slam that option shut! The oppression of US citizenship has become the fifth major campaign of my life. A campaign means working with many others against a great evil over a period of years. Hindsight says that this issue would have been dealt with far more easily a decade ago. But as Nietzsche says, Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker.
@IJ: You are NOT “just as innocent” as Timothy Geithner. You are totally innocent. For Geithner to now be in charge of US finances and going after honest people like you and others is absolutely despicable.
You are also not “greedy.” You should not have any penalty. I hope you fight any that is leveled against you.
If and when you want to return to Canada, we will welcome you with open arms and not penalize you for earning a living and saving money in United States of Arrogance.
Although I am not currently affected by these issues, the stories that all of you have told in this blog have changed my ideas about taxes, democracy and government in general, and my perceptions of the United States and many other countries. I believe I am much more informed now, I see things differently, I am more responsible, I understand that I’m not the only one with difficult problems and the importance of helping each other. I guess I finally became an adult, but the flame that I had inside when I was a teenager, to go out and “change the world”, has been rekindled. Now I know what I can do and I really feel that I can make a difference in this case.
One way or another, in the end justice will prevail as it always does. It may not come in the way that we expect, but somehow this whole mess will be fixed. And I will do what I can to get it done.
@Blaze, Thanks for your kind words, and I will pay my way to Canada for the movie role as Chinese ambassador after I come out clean with 0 FBAR penalty.
@IJ: We’ll be waiting!
@ShadowRaider: Thanks so much for your interests and efforts.
@Blaze, You’re welcome.
I’ve heard that lobbyists often write bills themselves and give it to Congressmen for discussion and approval. Today I got a little more motivated and decided to dive into the US Code and see if it would be too complicated to replace the citizenship-based taxation with a resident-based system. I found that it’s not too hard, there are 166 instances of the word “citizen” in titles 26 (taxes) and 31 (reports) of the US Code, but in most cases it’s a matter of replacing “citizen or resident” with “resident”. The definition of “resident” could be the same that is used for foreigners, but without the “green card test”. I was thinking of writing a bill myself and discussing it with ACA when they open their office in Washington, DC later this year. Do you think this is a good idea or a waste of time?
I also found something interesting: the FBAR definitions are not in the US Code! Section 5314 of title 31 merely authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to require reports of foreign financial transactions or relations (accounts?), and says that the Secretary may specify which people, which transactions in which countries, and which amounts would have to be reported and how. Section 5321, however, does specify the penalties for not filing such reports. But Timothy Geithner could easily solve the FBAR mess by issuing a regulation to exempt Americans abroad, immigrants, accounts in the country where the person lives, accounts in countries that are not considered tax havens, accounts already included in form 8938, raising the minimum value to be reported, or maybe replacing the FBAR with a report of money transfers between the US and another country. It’s all within his power personally. In fact, the FBAR regulations have already been changed a few times; for example, only after 2008 the precise values of the accounts are required; before that, only orders of magnitude were reported.
@Shadow Raider
You are absolutely correct. The Secretary of the Treasury can and could have ended this at any time. Geithner has made a deliberate choice to NOT end it. This is part of the reason that our problems must be understood to be the fault of the Obama administration and not so much citizenship-based taxation (it is primarily in the administration of the law).
Don’t know if you if you have read the post I did a while ago on FBAR (that discusses these issues) or not.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/02/15/looking-for-mr-fbar-in-search-of-fbar-fullfilment-and-consciousness/
@All just had a thought. Do you remember on 911, Bush said:
Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward, and freedom will be defended.Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewbu131044.html#53r0iA8kbwZErojZ.99
Question: How do you like “freedom” now?
@renounce, I had not read that post before, but it looks like you did even more research than I did, and we both had the same conclusions. I used to think that the executive departments were just following orders from Congress, but now I see that they are part of the problem too. If I had known about this, I would have written my letter to my representative differently. Well, at least now I have more information for my next try.
Regarding your second post: I remember reading somewhere that the terrorists who attacked the US on 9/11/2001 intended to damage the American way of life and its deep traditions like freedom, and because of the response of the US, they were successful. I wonder how long the US will take to realize this. If Congress does not renew the Patriot Act again, it will expire in 2015.
*Great question. A year ago we were on the verge of entering OVDI on the advice of high priced ,well recommended cross border lawyer. Couldn’t sleep. Couldn’t think straight.
Avoided the OVDI trap with hours to go. Even got through to high priced Washington lawyer ex IRS deputy commish. on the phone. Between the lines was told OVDI was for big fish living in the states. Told us it was a ‘business decision’. We had been told the penalty could be 5%, 12.5% or 25%. Nobody could say. Fortunately we bailed.
One year later, have learned so much, thanks largely to IBS. Learned we have nothing to fear except fear. Learned from Hitchens ” Always question authority- ‘One of the beginnings of emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority.” Now sleeping like a baby
*No, I’m not the same person. I’ve lived in Canada since 1975. I was 13 when
my Dad took the only teaching job he could get. Winnipegosis Manitoba, 250 miles north of
Winnipeg. Not a too much different than Northern Minnesota to be truthful. With
the same black flies, mosquitos and killer humidity. But our lives changed
dramatically. We had health care for the first time in years and my Dads income
went from 0 to 40k over night! Five years later at age 19 there was no doubt in
my mind when I became a Canadian.
Almost 38 years later I now live in Calgary Alberta and to some extent we,
my wife and two daughters, are living the dream! Mind you we don’t have oil
well in our back yard or anything we just enjoy where and how we live. But let’s
back up to July 2011. The four of us were just loading the car to head south
for a holiday. Two weeks, I had convinced my family we should cross the border
into Montana and drive east to Bemidji Minnesota to visit my relatives and see
the ‘homestead’. I told them ‘rural America is the best place to get good pie’.
We had fun and the pie was good, so was the service we had at the hotels, the
gas stations and the ice-cream stops we made. Basically we had a great time. I
also got to take the family through the woods to show them where my Great Grandfather,
George B. Fuller, first got off the train and bought up the land to build a log
home.
Ten days later we were back in Calgary I had started to watch the news when a
report of a young women who was going to have to pay 25k to 30k to get right
with the IRS. It was at that moment our world took a dramatic spin.
Over the next couple of days as I got educated on citizenship taxation I sudden
felt like a criminal. My first thought was, ‘how did I get across the border
with a Canadian passport and a US birth place’? Anyway I chose to get into the
2011 OVDI and spent 26k to get ‘right’ with the IRS. By November 2011 my plan
was quite simple. Go through the OVDI, renounced my dual US citizenship and take
charge of my life again. Isaac Brock Society helped a lot to move me along this
path. I was no longer interested in anything American, suddenly I started
talking about ‘Americans’ the way I heard my co-workers talk. By January 2012
the decision was made and all that I had been through had worked to solidify
all that I am as a Canadian. I was no longer any part American. So I renounced
March 7, 2012 and for the first time in 10 months I felt as if I was truly in
control of my life. On July 1, Canada Day, a co-worker gave me a Canadian flag
and said, ‘Congratulations Al’, this is your first Canada as a full Canadian’.
Now I don’t really care how the OVDI goes or when the CLN comes and I don’t
even fear the 8854. Why, because I’ve chosen to live free and I live in a
country that enjoys true freedom every day. Even if I can never return to the
US, there’s still a lot of the world to visit where people live free and that’s
where I’ll spend my vacation dollars.
No, I’m not the same person. I’m more educated and determined to live the best
I can each day. Also, I need to say that each of you have contributed significantly
to my education. I’ve appreciated the information and camaraderie I’ve gathered
from the Isaac Brock Society, thank very much to all of you. Thanks Petros.
I am simply angry. I seem more angry than at the beginning, when I realized this was “for real” and that I was not imagining it. I have nothing but disgust for the US and it’s completely assinine approach to everything. And having had a lot of losses over the last two years (father, brother, loss of family home, no one left there, etc etc), while I love Canada, I feel disconnected. Not defined. Aimless. Maybe sort of normal for my age but definitely “enhanced” by the intensity of this miserable experience. I am grateful that I did not learn of all this until the 2nd OVDI was over and for all that I have learned from all of you. I am glad I renounced, await my CLN and cannot wait to file my final return for my “12 days of being a USC” in 2012. I don’t care if I ever go back.
@itacaf, Inspirational. I can just picture your coworker handing you that Canadian flag. Thanks for sharing.
*I feel motivated to make a few wee comments on this stream of wonderful, uplifting thoughts. We’ve all found ourselves in some sort of an American trap. It isn’t appreciated among locals, a.k.a., resident U.S. citizens. We pay taxes, but can’t do anything about it, i.e., vote. More so than pretty much any other American who has lived in the last 200 years, we truly understand, “Taxation Without Representation”. We have suffered at the hands of an overbearing and overreaching “parent” nation . Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and the other Revolutionairies would be appalled that this is what has befallen America. It was never, ever, supposed to be this way. Very sad, indeed. There is a wonderful song that is part of a current U.S. commercial…”Land of Dreams”. Although the tune is about the U.S., I think, as a Canadian and accidental American, it applies to us. We have found our land of dreams… whether it be Canada, France, Japan or Timbuktu. We have found what we came for and these lands are our homes. The U.S. can’t pick on us any more. So, how do I feel after a year… my resolve is stronger, my friendship with you all and my commitment to a free and happy life is bolstered. We can and will survive this. Our wise decisions now will benefit our children, our retirement, and our life. When I deliver my renunciation oath in the coming weeks, it will be like you all are with me. For all of us…Keep Strong and Carry On, we’re in this together.
The biggest impact this has had on my life is that a year ago – before my husband (who is a UK citizen) and I (US/UK dual citizenship) knew about my tax reporting ‘responsibilities’ we were making plans to ultimately move back to the U.S. My mother who lives state-side has a lot of medical issues and we wanted to be closer to her. Now my husband refuses to move there. He would have to get a green card in order to work there and now he won’t do that. And understandably so. However, this has caused huge problems for me with my mother. Added to this is the stress of trying to become ‘compliant’ with a government to whom I don’t owe any taxes.
So far we’ve been ‘lucky’ in that none of my banking institutions have come after me with notices to vacate my accounts, but I live in fear that it will come.
I never imagined that I would consider dropping my US citizenship – but now I am. The whole situation is too horrible for words.
I have not considered myself an american for years and years and years. To me it’s honestly just a small blue book that lets me travel and harasses me over stupid bullshit every do often that I wouldn’t have to deal with if I didn’t have it.
No, I’m not the same person. I’ve lived in Canada since 1975. I was 13 when my Dad took the only teaching job he could get. Winnipegosis Manitoba, 250 miles north of Winnipeg. Not a too much different than Northern Minnesota to be truthful. With the same black flies, mosquitos and killer humidity. But our lives changed dramatically. We had health care for the first time in years and my Dads income went from 0 to 40k over night! Five years later at age 19 there was no doubt in my mind when I became a Canadian.
Almost 38 years later I now live in Calgary Alberta and to some extent we,
my wife and two daughters, are living the dream! Mind you we don’t have an oil
well in our back yard or anything we just enjoy where and how we live. But let’s
back up to July 2011. The four of us were just loading the car to head south
for a holiday. Two weeks, I had convinced my family we should cross the border
into Montana and drive east to Bemidji Minnesota to visit my relatives and see
the ‘homestead’. I told them ‘rural America is the best place to get good pie’.
We had fun and the pie was good, so was the service we had at the hotels, the
gas stations and the ice-cream stops we made. Basically we had a great time. I
also got to take the family through the woods to show them where my Great Grandfather,
George B. Fuller, first got off the train and bought up the land to build a log
home.
Ten days later we were back in Calgary I had started to watch the news when a
report of a young women who was going to have to pay 25k to 30k to get right
with the IRS come on. It was at that moment our world took a dramatic spin.
Over the next couple of days as I got educated on citizenship taxation I sudden
felt like a criminal. My first thought was, ‘how did I get across the border
with a Canadian passport and a US birth place’? Anyway I chose to get into the
2011 OVDI and spent 26k to get ‘right’ with the IRS. By November 2011 my plan
was quite simple. Go through the OVDI, renounce my dual US citizenship and take
charge of my life again. Isaac Brock Society helped a lot to move me along this
path. I was no longer interested in anything American, suddenly I started
talking about ‘Americans’ the way I heard my co-workers talk. By January 2012
the decision was made and all that I had been through had worked to solidify
all that I am as a Canadian. I was no longer any part American. So I renounced
March 7, 2012 and for the first time in 10 months I felt as if I was truly in
control of my life. On July 1, Canada Day, a co-worker gave me a Canadian flag
and said, ‘Congratulations Al’, this is your first Canada Day as a full Canadian’.
Now I don’t really care how the OVDI goes or when the CLN comes and I don’t
even fear the 8854. Why, because I’ve chosen to live free and I live in a
country that enjoys true freedom every day. Even if I can never return to the
US, there’s still a lot of the world to visit where people live free and that’s
where I’ll spend my vacation dollars.
No, I’m not the same person. I’m more educated and determined to live the best
I can each day. Also, I need to say that each of you have contributed significantly
to my education. I’ve appreciated the information and camaraderie I’ve gathered
from the Isaac Brock Society, thank very much to all of you. Thanks Petros.
Well, I can say that I was denied my first bank account due to US place of birth two years ago and not just last year, so I’ve been angrier for longer than most maybe. That being said, I haven’t been affected as harshly as most because I had no assets or income until last year as a student. What annoyed beyond no end were the increasing restrictions being placed upon me and especially having two bank accounts with meagre amounts closed. I also would never sign a privacy waiver form to have my accounts in my country of citizenship and residence reported to a foreign country. No way, not ever. It was the claim to own me like someone owns cattle that bothered me the most.
The whole experience has mainly made me very suspicious of the US, espeically with their general extra-territorial application and push of laws such as ACTA and of their claim to have universal sovereignty in almost all areas. I also resolutely refuse to travel there ever again after an “enhanced” pat down with the TSA people two years ago, Reed Amendment or not. I will not invest anything in the US, own property in the US, bring any money into the US as a tourist, trade US securities, mutual funds or stocks nor will I hold any bank accounts in US dollars, even outside the US. The effect has been that I will try to disconnect every single connection to the US possible.
I am absolutely thrilled to have renounced US citizenship last month and can’t wait to get the CLN. Planning to celebrate the moment that I get it.
I am definitely not the same person I was a year ago. Back then, I was happy and enjoying life as an immigrant to the US, and enjoying my job.
Since I learned about the possible consequences about my mistakes regarding my bank account in my home country, and the impossibility to fix them without subjecting myself to huge fines, my life hasn’t been the same. My main fear (but I may be paranoid) is that I could get deported for that. And my wife made it clear that she doesn’t want to move. Our relationship hasn’t been the same since then. I have been depressed, had a hard time to concentrate a work and gained weight. I like taking action to fix stuff, but found myself in an impossible situation. I refuse to subject myself to this extortion, and chose to wait for the SOL to expire. We’ll see what happens.
My view of America has definitely changed. I was already disgusted by the political process here, the lack of care for some, and now add to that extreme punishment. If I didn’t have any tie here, I think I would just pack my bags and leave. I am unhappy and feel like a prisoner.