Amy Webster, a communications specialist who lives in Morges, Switzerland shared her FATCA fallout story recently on the Genevalunch blog. The link to her story was in one of the comments posted here on Isaac Brock. I have been in contact with her via email, and obtained her kind permission to also cross post it here for additional visibility. She said, “By all means, my story has gone public, so please feel free to do what you wish with it, as long as it can help our cause!” Her story follows:
By Amy Webster
I have been living in Switzerland since 1984 and am married to a Swiss national. We own a house together in Morges and are currently building a chalet in the Valais. For this new construction we obtained a loan from the Zurich-based zweiplus bank, where my husband had invested some funds. The construction is underway and we recently asked the bank for additional funds. Although we are good clients and the loan itself would not raise a problem, the harsh news came that under no circumstance could we obtain a greater loan; in fact the entire mortgage is questioned, for the sole reason that I am a dual Swiss-US national.
We also learned that this bank considers my husband a dual national as well, which is understandably infuriating. Although they have known since the beginning that I am a US national, some recent political decision (internal or external to the bank) is making them revisit every banking relationship they have with US citizens — with immediate effect. I now understand this is a result of banks preparing for the FATCA law.
We have been asked to remove all our assets from the bank (and forced to sell all our stock at great financial loss given the current economy, because we cannot obtain additional funds) and to find another bank to refinance our mortgage, under the grounds that zweiplus is no longer allowed to deal with US citizens (or better said, no longer wishes to); they will in fact cease any business relations with any US citizen or anyone with close family ties to one (so my own children might run into similar problems in the future).
They referred us to banks who still deal with US citizens (there appears to be a short list), among them the leading Swiss bank UBS where my husband is, luckily, also an established client.
My husband was in touch with UBS today to negotiate refinancing our mortgage and possibly reinvesting our assets. He was told he has been considered a US citizen for many years and is handled by their special department in charge of such customers (increasingly considered persona non grata). They are willing to refinance our mortgage (at a great financial cost for us, as the breach of the mortgage contract has financial repercussions for both parties involved) and accept our investments (they make it sound like they are doing us a favor) but have told my husband that US citizens may no longer be allowed to even own property in Switzerland! I could not believe my ears when I heard this.
We already own a house in Morges and I have in fact been a house owner in Switzerland since 1992! My current mortgage for our Morges house is with the BCV (Banque Cantonale Vaudoise) and they have not informed me of any such change. To this the UBS man replied: “Don’t worry, this will be coming soon” — meaning that all banks will soon be coming down on all their US customers (and relatives, I may add).
The backdrop of all these interactions with Swiss bankers has always been: “We are very sorry, this is not our own doing, but a direct result of the US FATCA regulations imposed on Swiss banks. We are very sorry to lose you as customers but have no choice but to follow the rules”.
I would like to add that the reason UBS is actually willing to help us – to a certain extent at least – is probably due to the fact that they handle my husband’s business and his family’s estate. I cannot imagine how they would treat me if it were not for my husband, and I hate to observe the stress and anxiety this is creating for him.
The UBS banker even told him that it was thanks to his sister being co–owner of the building their father recently donated to them, that they are maintaining the mortgage on that estate. Had he been sole owner they would breach the contract because he is considered a dual national (which he is not!) because of his marriage to me. He was even told the only solution would be to divorce!
Needless to say this is not only infuriating but downright humiliating. My husband is putting pressure on me as the source of our problems, and I am therefore experiencing first hand how these unfair regulations imposed on Swiss banks by the US government are having adverse effects on the lives and wellbeing of US citizens living in this country, to the point of putting pressure on dual marriages.
I am seriously considering giving up my US citizenship which I had always been so proud of and which I so carefully looked after. I have duly filed a US income tax return every year, as my father rightly taught me, and to this day had never felt shame at being a US citizen. I am not so sure anymore and fear what is ahead for us honest citizens who are now being treated as second-class ones.
I understand the political motivation of the current administration to chase tax evaders and punish banks that contributed to such transactions, but I cry out in outrage at the fact that regulations intended to resolve such situations have in fact impacted simple and honest, hard working citizens like my husband and myself, and in a very negative fashion. I wish to use every means in my power to protest against such rules.
*Looks like they wanted to shoot some hiding criminals in a town and, in order not to miss them decided to shoot the whole town. Of course hard working town people without representation.
*
*How Ridculous this is, it is really sad what is happening to good honest people.. it is just sickening..the US should just be Ashamed of what they are doing.. Really Outrageous!
The Swiss daily “TagesAnzeiger” carries a story today called “The Disadvantage to be an American” as its lead story on its website. It states that 500 Americans in Switzerland expatriated in 2011 (source not provided).
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtschaft/geld/Vom-Nachteil-ein-Amerikaner-zu-sein/story/13668921
It is interesting that the US Embassy spokesperson denies that they have re-deployed their staff to handle the expatriation workload, which has been reported elsewhere.
The following comment to the TagesAnzeiger article is worth noting:
Commenter: L.R.
“I only had to wait 7 months in total to go to the Consulate for the expatriation. I say “only” because the first appointment offered was 1 year and 8 months in the future. A follow-up call helped then with a sudden opening.”
Original: “Ich musste insgesamt nur 7 Monate warten bis ich aufs Konsulat gehen konnte für die Ausbürgerung. Ich sage “nur” weil der erste mir angebotene Termin 1 Jahr und 8 Monate in der zukunft lag. Ein Rückruf mit einer plötzlichen öffnung hat dann geholfen.”
I feel sorry for Ms. Webster but on the other hand she should have seen this coming and already taken appropriate steps. The trend should be clear to anyone with eyes, ears, and a brain. I don’t know all her circumstances or why she chose to just wait and watch the unfolding horror — and maybe she had valid personal reasons holding her back — but in general complacent people who just sit on their hands will learn things the hard way.
@Wellington: The Swiss live in their own little reality bubble. You should watch Swiss TV or listen to their radio for a while. In so many ways they are completely oblivious. Take the recent referendum of forcing all important foreign treaties to be subject of national referendum. What a check on Federal power it would have been, but over 60% voted against the referendum
Or this one which has barely been mentioned in the Swiss press:
Swiss Surrender to IRS Ends 78 Years of Bank Secrecy
I do not understand how her husband can be considered a dual-national if he has not been naturalized a US citizen. RS 291 Art 23 (Swiss Federal Law on International Private Legal Matters) dictates that dual nationals who are Swiss must be considered only as Swiss. Amy and her husband should immediately order the bank in writing (registered letter) to re-establish all their banking relations and mortgages as before, all fees and expenses at the cost of the bank, while threatening the bank with criminal prosecution and civil lawsuit if they do not comply within 5 business days. The forced stock sale is a breach of economic liberty guaranteed under the Swiss constitution. They are both Swiss citizens for crying out loud!
When asked to close the mortgage and assets, the correct response is not to fill out any forms to do so, but to REFUSE AND SAY NO, and threaten the banker with criminal charges, as the bank (FATCA or no) is violating Art 261bis, Swiss Federal Penal Code (racial discrimination, discrimination on the basis of national origin) as well as Art 271 (Illegal acts for a foreign state), and numerous constitutional protections.
Furthermore, the suggestion that they should divorce is unacceptable, and shows that the bank shows blatant disregard for the Swiss Constitution which also guarantees in a very specific article the right to marry and have a family.
If the bank refuses to re-establish the accounts at the bank’s expense, Amy and her husband should immediately write out a statement of what happened and go to the nearest police station (Gendarmerie) and file a criminal complaint against the bank and the individual bankers that are trying to force her and/or have forced her and her husband to divest their funds and/or close their mortgage. If the police refuse to take the complaint, the names of the officers should be published here. The next step would be the parquet de procureur (state prosecutor’s office).
They should not take no for an answer.
What is happening to them is exactly the sort of stuff that happened to the Jews and others after the Nuremberg Laws of the mid 30’s. First the disfavoured group is stripped of their rights to do business like everybody else. Then comes the ghetto, then the gas chambers and mass shootings. NEVER AGAIN!!
@ConfederateH
I know all about the Swiss, having lived here for nearly 2 decades. I agree about their living in a bubble. Sometimes I see the results of referendums, such as the one you mentioned, and just scratch my head. I mean, they have it so good, so why throw it away? Many of them just want to live in a socialist paradise and to have all their needs taken care of by the Nanny State, but they seem to easily forget the historical tradition of independence and hard work that brought them the prosperity in the first place.
Nevertheless, I can’t believe that someone as well connected to her “homeland” as Ms. Webster could have neglected to note the sinister trend developing since the early 2000s. I sure as heck could see it.
uh oh…
Some of the tranches of my mortgage will come due in 2 years and this is exactly what I have feared. We would be devasted if this happened to us. We would have no place to live.
My wife was denied banking services two weeks ago from Credit Suisse on the grounds of being an American. Our backup plan has been that I will relinquish and she will retain, but this story tells me that we will still be denied banking services.
So, now that means I must relinquish; we must divorce and then we will be safe, but… what about the kids? We would still have ties to the kids and then I hear that if I die, the US will put full inheritance tax on the kids as I am a renunciant.
@ Jefferson
Bravo! I enjoyed reading your post.
@Wellington, sorry, I thought you were in England. Must be your handle…
I have known several Swiss-American dual nationals that refused to listen to me for years. Most of them talked up expatriating when Bush was in the whitehouse, but not because of unjust tax laws. One in particular insisted he didn’t have to file 1040’s or FBAR.
It is far more difficult for lefties to break free from the left-wing narratives continually spewed out by the US MSM.
@ConfederateH
Ah yes the handle is definitely British.
There’s nothing much we can do for people who leave their blinders on and just plow their course in life, not bothering to look around. Or maybe some are more endowed with a survival instict than others. At any rate, I’ve been talking to dual nationals for years and trying to warn them, but to no avail. I just sent an aquaintance of mine the article from GenevaLunch blog above, and now she has finally been stirred into action, wanting to meet over lunch to discuss my experiences with US person status and what she can do about hers. The thing is that, for years she just procrastinated and probably always thought it would always be someone else’s problem and never hers. I think maybe the article hit a little close to home this time. It’s never too late to do something, but over time it will get more difficult until it becomes almost impossible. You can count on that. In the mean time, there are surely multitudes of people who still have no ‘fricking clue what’s going to hit them and who purposely keep their heads in the sand. Good luck to them. I think there are some analogies to draw from the example of the Jews in the 30s, as Jefferson wrote above.
@Confederate, @Wellington
I’ve been saying the same thing to my fellow dis-countrymen and getting a range of responses:
1) total disbelief, that would never happen to me. therefore, do nothing.
2) i’m not having a problem, so this must be alarmism from the press, therefore, do nothing.
3) OMG – i am going to hide, therefore, do nothing.
4) how does one renounce?… really? but what if I’ve never heard of an FBAR? resort to 3.
So far, only one friend has actually charged forward to renunciation. Admittedly, most are moving into an acceptance phase that they will have to make for the exit. In my case, I am waiting on my second passport and could very well get slaughtered before I can renounce. I love my country, but it has perhaps the longest naturalization in the world. If I can at least secure my children’s future in our adoptive home and free them from a country that has clearly lost its way, then I have left a legacy of which our future generations can be proud.
Just curious how would Canada’s banking system be any different from Switzerland once FATCA hits here?
I agree with Jeff. It seems odd that the Webster’s family would just sell stock at a loss, and have to close their accounts. FACTA does not call for denying US citizen banking services – just provide information on their accounts. It is outreageous that the banks react that way and refuse banking services to dual citizen. It doesn’y seem legal. The Websters should go to court.
Maybe such actions by the banks would force the US to reconsider FACTA.
FACTA is not right, but discrimination by the banks is not right either.
So much coverage outside of the US and so little inside…
http://www.tdg.ch/suisse/americanosuisses-renoncent-passeport-bleu/story/15259344
I am amazed at how small the numbers really are in comparison to the growing issues faced. I wonder if there are those waiting to see if the election will change the circumstances, but really, Romney and GOP are silent there is only dwindling hope that they will come to our rescue.
The same article was cross posted on this web site:
http://www.lematin.ch/suisse/americanosuisses-renoncent-passeport-bleu/story/15259344
It’s incredible that you don’t hear anything on FACTA in the US mainstream news. I guess they figure that homelanders don’t care about it.
When you do a search on cnn.com. Not a single article about the subject pop up. You get a message “Did you mean fact?”.
This is a similar article in the German online newspaper “Welt”. I am wondering when my German bank will kick me out…
http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article106261354/Wenn-der-Besitz-eines-US-Passes-zum-Fluch-wird.html
I’m starting to find the articles coming out of Switzerland to be the most informative and thorough, generally featuring case studies as well (which is something that seems to be regularly lacking from US articles. Here is the newest rubbish on that front). Innocente’s link above is excellent, and I would like to add the following as well (in German):
http://www.20min.ch/finance/news/story/16330497
This one also mentions FACTA, but my German is rusty… I could not understand all of it.
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/standard/Wir-schauen-allen-auf-die-Finger/story/16493415
@Don
I just read the politicalwire link. Depressing and outrageous. They are so greedy and misled. That is not my country. They disgust me.
The comments on the politicalwire links are especially disgusting and the original article on nypost totally misses the point. Where did he get the data to back his story??
The reactions on the politicalwire link result from blind nationalism, an evil desire to punish, envy toward those who have money, but most of all, fundamentally wrong assumptions and a complete ignorance of the situation. The authors of the comments all have the wrong idea that some rich Americans living in the US are now deciding to leave the US to avoid taxes, they don’t understand that in reality those who are now renouncing have already left the US many years ago, for various reasons totally unrelated to taxes, or simply have lived their whole lives abroad and are US citizens only by descent. And it is the US that is practically requiring its citizens abroad to renounce through its absurd and unique laws. No other country in the world experiences this growing trend of renunciations of citizenship.
Perhaps someone here would facebook would be willing to put the following comment for me at the NY Post article:
I currently run a blog called the Isaac Brock Society. Many of the people who participate are not rich but normal middle class Americans who live in foreign countries and who are overwhelmed by the tax filing and bank account reports that are coming. I relinquished my citizenship because I don’t think I should pay taxes to an ungrateful country like the United States, not where I earned the money, not where I pay my regular taxes and not a place I will ever return to live because the politicians who are desperate to stop the gaps in their irresponsible government spending. You folks in the US need to get your act together and balance your budgets at every single government level and stop looking to those of us living abroad to stop the budget gaps. Signed, Peter W. Dunn
@Christophe The Tages Anzeiger article seems to say that Amy has “nur” (only) US nationality. I wrote her at GenevaLunch for a clarification.