Back on June 1st, under the ‘Thank you from a Fellow Brocker’ thread, I posted a question to other Canadian Brockers. There was enough interest and response that we decided to make a new thread to make it easier to follow through on the idea. Below is my original question, and then the comments by other Brockers. (Apologies for the format, did not find the copy post plugin here which allows comments to be copied, so have cut & pasted them into the post.)
July 1 is Canada Day. Can we Canadian Brockers take advantage of this date to encourage/demand our government stand up for our rights? To refuse the US attempt to reclaim our citizenship? To refuse the US attempt to invade our privacy? To refuse the US attempt to take our money? To say no to the US bullying? Can, or should, the Society come up with a message that we all send to the Minister of Finance, the Privacy Commissioner, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism?
Imagine if a few hundred emails were all received by them on July 1st, all with the same message. Surely that would have some impact?
I know we get accused of being too Canada-centric here, but with Canada Day coming up, it seemed a perfect opportunity to make a statement to our gov’t. What do people think?
Em – @ outragedcanadian I love your idea. It would be a “Say NO to the USA” e-mail campaign. I’m in and hopefully one of the many good writers here can put the template together for us. I would happily spend the wee hours of July 1st pressing SEND, SEND, SEND.
Outragedcanadian – Thanks, Em! I could even send from my real identity and my outraged identity, and double up! It would be wonderful if one of our more skillful writers could come up with a message that would get attention, and get the point across.
Calgary411 – Absolutely — perfect day to demand further representation from our government representatives.
bubblebustin – I hate to be a wet blanket, but haven’t we been doing this to the best of our abilities all along? Maybe we should stand at the border and burn some Canadian and American flags, but then, er, no one wants to be seen.
Em – @ bubblebustin We have both flags but I kind of like them so I probably wouldn’t burn them. And yes we have been doing this all along but I think the idea is for the e-mails to arrive en masse, hopefully giving them more force. I’m banging pots and pans on “Casserole Nights” (Wednesdays 8PM) for the Quebec students (mostly in protest of Bill 78) BUT we have a cow bell that I could ring every time I press the SEND button on July 1st. Not than anyone would know why but just because it’s fun. 
saddened123 – @Em,Bubblebustin, I love your sense of Humour!
saddened123 – @all, Best Part of North America!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg
Blaze – It would be worth a try, but I have sent four e-mails to Jim Flaherty over the past two months with no response. As Tiger says, Flaherty’s “silence is deafening.”
Outragedcanadian – @Blaze & Bubblebustin, yes, I know we have, but Em’s right. What I thought might – perhaps – maybe – have an impact is to fill their mailboxes on Canada day with the same message from different people on Canada day asking for Canada to stand up for us. Maybe it’s a forlorn hope, but even if no one else does, I think I’ll have to try. The deafening silence IRKS me.
Bubblebustin – (note I did not re-post the video) @saddened, I’ll drink to that! Ok if not flags, how about we burn some effigies? Ok, seriously, I like the letter writing blitz. How about we come up with a message that we agree represents how we feel as a group and send it out en masse? Maybe we can make it from the Isaac Brock Society, as certainly it will get some notice this being the year we celebrate how we burned the white house down in the War of 1812? (Just kidding about the going back and doing it again part)
saddened123 – We need to get more attention..Blaze needs to lead the pack with her Uniform and Sword..
bubblebustin – @saddened, indeed, Blaze the way!
Blaze – “The pen is mightier than the sword.” In this case, it’s actually a computer, rather than a pen–but it reaches more people more quickly.
Here’s are some words I drafted. These are, of course, for discussion, revision or rejection
Two hundred years ago, Sir Isaac Brock fought against the attempted takeover of Canada by the Americans. He lost his life in battle defending what was to become the great nation of Canada.
Today, we celebrate with all Canadians his efforts which resulted in Canadian freedoms, values and independence which are the envy of the world.
On the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, Canada is again being threatened with Americaninvasion. This time the United States is trying to accomplish through financial bullying what they could not achieve two centuries ago through aggressive war efforts.
The Americans are attempting to invade the lives of law-abiding, honest tax-paying Canadian citizens and residents.
The United States is further attempting, through monetary threats, to force Canadian financial institutions to become an agent of the United States Internal Revenue Service and to force these financial institutions to contravene Canadian privacy, banking, human rights and charter laws.
Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) threatens Canadian sovereignty to determine and maintain the laws of Canada in protecting the rights of ALL of it’s citizens and residents to manage their personal financial affairs in privacy and with confidence with their chosen financial institution.
Approximately 1 million Canadians of American origin or heritage are affected by this attempted intrusion into the lives intrusion into the lives of honest, law-abiding, tax-paying Canadians.
While you have responded to some letters or e-mails, many others have gone unanswered. While you spoke out against FATCA publicly almost a year ago, your silence in recent months has been deafening.
It is time for you to stand up for the rights of Canadians of American origin, or those who may simply have had the misfortune to be born in the U.S. due to circumstances of their Canadian parents or hospitals at the time.
Sir Isaac Brock fought for and gave his life for Canada 200 years ago. On Canada’s birthday, I urge you to stand up for Canada now.
Tell the Americans Canada doesn’t negotiate with financial terrorists. Tell the Americans Canada is an independent democratic country which establishes and enforces laws to protect its citizens and residents. Tell the Americans no foreign government dictates what those laws will be.
Tell Canadian financial institutions they must comply with Canadian laws and they cannot violate those laws to meet the demands of a foreign government.
Most importantly, tell Canadians of American origin they and their financial privacy are safe. Assure Canadians that Canadian laws will not be changed meet the demands of a foreign government. . Learn more about how modern-day Canadians are standing up to the Americans as peaceful, modern day warriors at a forum in Sir Isaac Brock’s name. (http.isaacbrocksociety.com) Join us in ensuring Canadian freedoms are not lost. .
Don’t delay. Do it now. Sir Isaac Brock would expect no less from a Canadian leader.
saddened123 – @Blaze, Yes you are right, the Pen (Computer)is mightier than the sword.. That is a great letter!! Excellent!! Love it!
saddened123 – @Bubble, Love the Video Clip! Great!
bubblebustin – @Blaze, ok you’ve got the nuts and bolts there, but it sounds a little ranty and demanding (but not without passion!) It need tempering, but it could work well as a framework. @saddened, thanks!
Blaze – @bubblebustin’: What do you expect from someone with a Redcoat and a Sword? Unfortunately, I have found being calm and polite doesn’t get Flaherty’s attention.
It’s actually just meant as a draft and is open to changes, additions, deletions or total rejection. I’m a Brocker. I can take it.
Bubblebustin – @blaze, certainly no disrespect intended. I think what you wrote was great, from the heart. I think Flaherty gets it, I don’t know if we give our representatives here enough credit (although who’s to know?) I think there’s a lot of back room negotiating going on and I’ve heard it from a few relatively reliable sources that the Canadian OVDI submissions have been halted in Austin for some reason, and those from other countries are being processed. John Weston, my MP, on last communication said he was working hard on these issues, so I don’t think we’ve been forgotten. I think that these issues, including FATCA have become incredibly sensitive for both countries. Just my opinion, but I think we should approach on the premise that our (Canadian) government is doing what it can. Flaherty said what he had to say last year and at least has not publicly wavered on that.
Em – @ Blaze I think it should be shorter but honestly I wouldn’t want to leave anything out. I like the passion. I think my Flaherty letter was lacking passion because I didn’t want to tick off someone who seemed to be on our side — well not too much anyway. Oh and I think it has to be not specifically for Flaherty because this needs to go to Harper and others tool. EXAMPLE … While you spoke out against FATCA publicly almost a year ago, your silence in recent months has been deafening. COULD BE … While Finance Minister Flaherty spoke out … etc. That would make it easier to send. Knowing me if there was slightly different wording for each person I’d get them mixed up. The idea is to show them we have some numbers now and we are not going to be silent.
bubblebustin – a little music to inspire us all… (bubblebustin posted the Beatles ‘Revolution’, did not copy over)
Em – All right that got me brockin! Thanks bubblebustin.
bubblebustin – Looks like I might Brock around the clock tonight… My husband has a suggestion as to who to send the letter to. How about “Dear Canada”?
Em – Thumbs up from me for “Dear Canada”.
Calgary411 – @All, bubblebustin, Bubblebustin’s husband, on the sidelines, has cut through it all to come up with “Dear Canada”.
I like that idea too — simplification (KISS) .
Letters to the Editors of Canadian newspapers — i.e., for Calgary: the Calgary Herald; the Calgary Sun. And, even our little local weeklies — for instance those like “FastForward” in Calgary (http://www.ffwdweekly.com/)?
Outragedcanadian – @All, love it! I do think passion is required, if, as bubblebustin suggests, we can keep it from appearing to be a rant. I’ve found that quickly turns people off, leads them to think ‘okay, nutcase here’, while reasonable discussion causes an OMG, you’re not serious! that’s insane! response. Very nice work, Blaze! And I also love the Dear Canada idea. Out of curiosity, I checked the Calgary Herald rates, thinking what if we took out a banner or half page ad or something, but it appears to be extremely pricey, so I think your idea of the local weeklies, et al, is a great idea. I have 3 papers I can write to locally, although not sure they’d all publish since they’re sort of related.
Blaze – @EM: Loved got your brocking.
@bubblebustin’: Also love Brock Around The Clock. I can hear Elvis belting it out.
I also really like your husband’s idea of “Dear Canada” for a Canada Day letter. Then we could include Canadian newspapers. Many don’t publish on Canada Day, so if we did that, we should try June 30 (a Saturday) for those that don’t.
If we want to explore the idea of a common letter further, we may want a separate thread for it.
Now, I’m going to actually try to take a Brock Break for the rest of the weekend. Let’s see if I succeed. I think even Sir Isaac occasionally needed R and R
Blaze – Ooops! I think it was Bill Haley and the Comments who did Rock Around the Clock. I can still see Elvis belting it out Brock Around the Clock (with apologies to The Comet).
I definitely need that break I promised myself!
Em – I like the idea of brocking local Canadian newspapers (around the July 1st date) wherever possible. I know the editor of our small town paper so I could try to submit our “Dear Canada” letter to him.
badger -I like ‘Dear Canada’ too. Or, Dear, Beloved Canada. Could it say “as peaceful, modern day ‘RESISTERS’ ” rather than ‘warriors’? Might that wording resonate more with people who don’t understand how serious and far reaching the FATCA threat is yet? Don’t want them to turn off or start getting distracted from the main message?
And mentioning US attempts to retroactively reclaim people who relinquished or renounced decades ago when they chose to become citizens of Canada. Plus the ‘accidentals’. That is such an egregious example of imperial overreach and intrusion into Canada.
We should thank Flaherty for his past public statements and efforts, to give credit where it is due. But we need something to hearten us now, and note that the rest of the world is looking to Canada to lead – as Sir Isaac Brock led – as an example in resistance to US overreach – via FATCA (which is likely true given that we’re next door, and have an entwined history – Australia and others may very well be watching what happens here). And say that while there may be efforts being made in private, the Canadian PUBLIC needs to know that they will be protected. As we pay our taxes in full to Canada, and our Canadian accounts are already fully reported and overseen by the CRA and levels of Canadian government oversight – the US demands to implement FATCA are an insult to Canadian sovereignty. Sometimes even the best neighbour needs to be told where the acceptable limits of co-existence stand.
Mentioning that the US efforts are treating Canadian institutions as if they are vehicles for money laundering – might infuriate Canadians – since it is implying that our own domestic oversight is inadequate or negligent, and should be reporting to the US – bowing to US demands as if Canada was a US subject or colony.
bubblebustin – @all, I agree with Blaze that we should move our “Dear Canada” letter to its own thread so others don’t miss the opportunity to participate. She’s taking a well deserved break from Brock, any volunteers for the honour?
@all, one of the things we need to get clear is if this letter will be from the Society or from us individually. I believe on the newsthread/media post that we agreed that anything coming from the Society must have the approval of the letter and the wording by one of the originators of this site, and I think that was Petros and Just Me. (Calgary411 I know you are an original as well, and you’re in favour of this, but I’m not clear if we have approval to send out as a missive from the Isaac Brock Society.)
I am in the process of cutting & pasting Blaze’s suggested letter, and adding in the revisions of the comments, and will post it later.
@All,
Personally, I would like to send my letter individually, composed by those at Isaac Brock but not saying this is from the Isaac Brock Society — just that I am one of the many concerned ‘US Persons’ that participate on the Isaac Brock Society blog.
Thanks to everyone for all the work being done on this — and your question, outragedcanadian.
@Calgary411, I do think it would tend to have more impact if it comes from individual Canadians. I hate to say this, but if it comes from a ‘society’ it might be marginalized. I know our individual letters haven’t gotten anything but the same tired, routine, response, but I’m not sure the hired help who will be reading our letters won’t just dismiss everything coming from a ‘society’.?? And, if we send as individuals, we can make it clear we’re expecting a response back.
What I like most about this idea is having the same clear, consistent message sent to our gov’t officials, and news outlets. I’m not holding my breath, but if we can get this in some papers, it might open some eyes. I’ve actually had someone say that they want to write to our gov’t about this, once he realized the truth and the impact of what is actually happening. I believe he will do it, too. It gives me a wee bit of hope that others might get engaged, as well.
@outraged, thank you for porting that over. I encourage all Brockers (not just the Canadian contingent) to participate in forming a message that will reflect the many elements we share in our struggle!
Don`t forget that the Québecois also contributed to the defence of Canada, under the leadership of
Colonel de Salaberry.
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/articles/battle-of-chateauguay
I think the best approach would be for each of us to take the draft words above as a very good starting point but then produce our own letters. I agree with other posters that is going to be more effective than having a single letter with multiple signatures, assuming we can all agree on the wording (and setting aside the issue of who decides or speaks for this website; there is no formal rule for that and I’m not about to propose myself or to accept anyone else in that role, in this case).
I, for one, am not comfortable with the “silence is deafening” phrase, for example — I’d prefer to give Flaherty the benefit of the doubt for now, unless/until we have clear evidence he isn’t entitled to that benefit, and to avoid making this appear to be a partisan attack on a particular party or politician, much as I personally have major reservations about the present government we have in Ottawa and setting aside my personal doubts about their motives and how far they’re going to go in protecting Canadians from these US abuses. If I’m sending an email under my own real name and email address to politicians (which I will be doing), it’s going to be my own wording and something I feel comfortable with. (And I reserve the right to use somewhat different wording when I address the government members than what I use when addressing my NDP MP, for what I think would be best effect.)
But I think a blitz on July 1 is a great idea, as long as it’s by individuals and not a cut-and-paste text or a formal petition.
Schubert suggested: “I think the best approach would be for each of us to take the draft words above as a very good starting point but then produce our own letters.”
I agree. Maybe a sentence or two may pop up in more than one e-mail, no problem — as long people only use the model as a jumping-off point, the variety in the content will show that this issue is so important that many people took the time to think about putting their individual thoughts into e-mail – not just a quick cut-and-paste.
I definitely think that all e-mails should include a link to the Isaac Brock Society, of course. And I really like that reference to Sir Isaac in Blaze’s last line 🙂
@Schubert,
It is a good point that you will be doing this under your real name. I will be doing that too to any government representatives as I have been doing all along. I may do that as well for a ‘letter to the editor’ type letter or editorial, that doesn’t reflect my personal plight.
I also do not want to disparage our Finance Minister, especially that I have now received a personal response from him on the concern I highlighted (http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2012/05/23/canadas-registered-disability-savings-plan-rdsp-canadas-finance-minister-flaherty-responds-regarding-this-as-well-as-the-resp-and-tfsa/). I am glad to have confirmation on how and why RDSPs, RESPs and TFSAs are treated as they are, not that I accept the discrimination to those of us (including disabled Canadians and accidental Americans) who are considered ‘US persons’ over any other Canadians in benefiting from such tax-protected accounts. I will continue my idealism and hope that some things truly are being done in the background on behalf of ‘US persons’ of any description in Canada.
In the meantime, I appreciate that the Finance Minister reiterates that we are protected (though not completely) from US collection of FBAR penalties (for any US persons in Canada) and taxes and related penalties (for Canadian-US dual citizens) by the country we reside in, which closely mirrors our rights in the resident-based taxation laws of Canada.
Mr. Flaherty has also assured me that my concerns will be addressed the next time there is an opportunity for renegotiation of the Canada-US Tax Treaty. Until that time (and I would like to know when that time will be), I will continue to highlight my specific concerns and hope others will do the same for this and other areas that should be addressed at the time, including the abuse of our Canadian and Universal Human Rights.
@all, whatever it is that you write, you should have this music playing in the background. I have no idea who the inflatable guy with the fru fru dog is, but some may recognize the music from the Jimmy Fallon show during his thank you letter segment.
Oh dear, Jimmy Fallon inflatable guy music — no can do.
@bubblebustin, my, oh my, where do you find these things! You have quite a stock!
@all, so I think we have agreement that our letters to the gov’t should be individual.
There was a 2nd idea expressed of letters to the editor, as many places as we can get them in, where the Dear Canada letters can come in to play. While I am comfortable writing to my govt with my real name, I am not comfortable publishing my name in a letter to the editor. I could, however, (if they’ll accept it), write in as Outraged Canadian. Is this where Blaze’s letter (and re-writes) will be used?
Rivka makes an excellent point that it wasn’t just Sir Isaac and other anglophone British subjects who gave their lives in the war of 1812 — there were also Canadiens (as they then were called) and First Nations people who fought and died, not to mention refugees from the US war of independence now called “United Empire Loyalists.” So I’m a bit uncomfortable putting too much emphasis on Sir Isaac.
Personally, proud as I am of Sir Isaac, of this website, and of my part in getting his name enshrined in our website name, I will not reference him nor this website in my personal letter. I don’t want my letter to look like part of a campaign organized by the website, for the same reasons I don’t want to copy and paste someone else’s words, much as I may be inspired by them in crafting my own text. However that obviously is everyone’s individual choice to make.
I still like the group letter on masse because if the same letter gets sent out it will get noticed!
I have an idea as an opener (of course subject to tweaking), that will facilitate this:
‘Dear Canada,
On behalf of a special group of Canadians, those who live as Canadian-American dual citizens in this great country of Canada, I would like to wish all Canadians a “Happy Canada Day”. This year is especially important for our group, as it also marks the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, a war during which the colony of Canada joined forces with the British against the Americans to the south. As representatives of the approximately 1 million of us who enjoy the unique perspective of being citizens of both sides of the battle, we would like to offer you a view of what it’s like to live today as Canadian-American citizens in the country we call home.’
So enough said about the war, but a good segway into our issues, no?
There are good ideas being expressed here. I can go either way — form letter or individual but I still need a template of some kind so I touch as many bases as possible. I could do something like this for a publication:
Dear Canada,
You may not be aware of this group of Canadian residents living in your midst but they need your support. They come to this group from many different circumstances … and so on … still musing.
I’m not sure what to do for government officials yet because Dear Canada doesn’t sound quite right there and yet I don’t want to abandon it either for those particular e-mails … maybe a short preface and then into Dear Canada plus the template … still musing.
Afterthought on personal emails, arguably they shouldn’t all go on the same day but at around (preferably on or shortly before) July 1, lest it look a bit over-coordinated.
This thought was prompted by the harsh necessity in my own case that on July 1 I’ll be in the Rockies and far, far away from any electronic connections with the rest of the planet, so I’m going to have to send off my emails a couple of days early. Letter will still reference July 1 and War of 1812 but will not say “today” but rather “shortly” or something like that when referencing the celebration …
@bubblebustin I like the entree you proposed, other than the “Canadian-American citizen” phrase, since I absolutely refuse to use the second word in that phrase with any reference to myself 😉 But again, different strokes for different folks, and we don’t all come at this from exactly the same perspectives.
@All
I agree with schubert1975, I absolutely would NOT use the phrase ‘Canadian-American dual citizen’. I renounced my American citizenship in October 1972, when I became a Canadian. As Schubert says, we all come at this from different perspectives. Perhaps for people like myself, it could be something like ‘American-born Canadian citizen’.
what would be a good collective term that we could agree upon, that is if anyone would like to do more of a group letter? I really believe there would be a lot of strength in a letter that speaks of us as a group. Canadian dual American citizen, lol?
My toonies worth re: Can-Am dual citizen — I’m not a dual either. I am a Canadian who got snared by the IRS when I was issued a GC. Would Canadian resident work? It just means we live here, as do all Canadians, or is “resident” more technical than that? I know the IRS sure makes it out to be. This is too sappy I know but I kind of like Canadian heartlander but again it has a different specific meaning than what I am thinking and it isn’t apropos. Don’t worry Brockers there is still time … we’ll get this right if we keep gnawing away at it.
I have to say that I will not and do not call myself American anything. I am Canadian only. I know it’s too long, but if anything I refer to myself as a Canadian who the US is trying to reclaim citizenship of. And, as Em says, we have lots of time to work on this. I have spent so long thinking of myself as Canadian, and paying virtually no attention to the US, I simply cannot associate myself with the word American. That’s where ‘outraged’ came in, I didn’t even now about all the other crap like FATCA and FBAR, at first. I became ‘outraged canadian’ when I learned that the US was trying to reclaim me and my family.
My letter is going to refer to Canadian citizens who are being targetted and extorted by the IRS. I’m not using the word American anywhere in it. I’m not an American, nor are the people who I’m helping to get their relinquishment papers in order, nor are their children or grandchildren, whatever the Excited States of America and the lunatics who govern them might want to think, based on whatever demented “laws” they’ve concocted.
Obviously those who do consider themselves to be dual/American citizens will word whatever letters they send differently. This is but one example where I really don’t see a point in trying to concoct a “one size fits all” letter, because one size doesn’t fit all of us, though we all do share a common enemy. I think we have a common message to our government about that enemy, but I am not interested in wording my version of that message above my signature the same way some others might word their version of the message, nor would I expect them to word their version my way.
Same reason why I am only writing to Canadian political figures and not to American ones. They latter aren’t part of my country, they aren’t my politicians, I don’t want anything to do with them, and I don’t want them to have anything to do with me. I no more recognize them or their legitimacy than they recognize me or mine. Ditto organizations that contain the word “American” in their name, however much I may sympathize with or share some of their objectives.
@All
This is a real tough one to figure out. When I think of all this and the variety of perspectives, it seems even tougher.
I consider myself an American-born Canadian. But most definitely Canadian through and through. Then I think of my three sons (who heaven forbid could still get caught up in all this sh…t) and I realize that their perspective is different than mine. They were all born on Canadian soil to an American mother and a Canadian father. That makes them truly ‘Accidental Americans’. Certainly my hope for them is they can continue to ignore all of this as their financial institutions know nothing of any ‘American’ connection and certainly their passports have a Canadian place of birth.
And then there are others here on the site, who are truly ‘dual’ citizens. Some of those plan on keeping their dual citizenship and others may ‘renounce’ at a later time. As long as the US has citizenship based taxation, they have an obligation to file U.S. returns.
And there are also others, like three of my clients, who are American citizens living in Canada. They, too, have an obligation to file tax returns in both countries as long as the US maintains citizenship based taxation.
I wonder if it is possible to find a ‘reference’ that will work for all of us.
@schubert
You were obviously posting while I was writing. Now that I have read your post, I could not agree with you more. I, too, refuse to refer to myself, in any manner, as an American. I like your reference to ‘Canadian citizens who are being targeted’. That speaks to exactly how I feel about this whole mess.
Any letters I send will refer to myself as ‘a Canadian being targeted by the US government and/or IRS’.
‘Dear Canada,
On behalf of a special group of Canadians, those Canadians who either live or have lived as Canadian-American dual citizens, I would like to wish all Canadians a “Happy Canada Day”. This year is especially important for our group, as it also marks the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, a war during which the colony of Canada joined forces with the British against those whom many of us call our forefathers. As we represent the approximately 1 million who have the unique perspective of having our roots in both sides of the battle, we would like to offer you a view of what it’s like to live today as Canadians with past or present ties with the US.
Many from the both sides lost their lives in the War of 1812, but history has intertwined our nations into what has since been a friendship that has seen the relatively free movement of people across our borders.
It is unfortunate that on this anniversary, and through these very people that the US is again threatening its neighbour to the north. It is not a battle being waged for territory, it is a battle that threatens the lives of law-abiding, honest tax-paying Canadian citizens and residents, the very people both governments have encouraged a strong and vibrant cross-border relationship through.’
Is this generic enough of a start?
The first sentence is too long and wordy, I think.
I think American shows up once 🙂