Back on June 1st, under the ‘Thank you from a Fellow Brocker’ thread, I posted a question to other Canadian Brockers. There was enough interest and response that we decided to make a new thread to make it easier to follow through on the idea. Below is my original question, and then the comments by other Brockers. (Apologies for the format, did not find the copy post plugin here which allows comments to be copied, so have cut & pasted them into the post.)
July 1 is Canada Day. Can we Canadian Brockers take advantage of this date to encourage/demand our government stand up for our rights? To refuse the US attempt to reclaim our citizenship? To refuse the US attempt to invade our privacy? To refuse the US attempt to take our money? To say no to the US bullying? Can, or should, the Society come up with a message that we all send to the Minister of Finance, the Privacy Commissioner, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism?
Imagine if a few hundred emails were all received by them on July 1st, all with the same message. Surely that would have some impact?
I know we get accused of being too Canada-centric here, but with Canada Day coming up, it seemed a perfect opportunity to make a statement to our gov’t. What do people think?
Em – @ outragedcanadian I love your idea. It would be a “Say NO to the USA” e-mail campaign. I’m in and hopefully one of the many good writers here can put the template together for us. I would happily spend the wee hours of July 1st pressing SEND, SEND, SEND.
Outragedcanadian – Thanks, Em! I could even send from my real identity and my outraged identity, and double up! It would be wonderful if one of our more skillful writers could come up with a message that would get attention, and get the point across.
Calgary411 – Absolutely — perfect day to demand further representation from our government representatives.
bubblebustin – I hate to be a wet blanket, but haven’t we been doing this to the best of our abilities all along? Maybe we should stand at the border and burn some Canadian and American flags, but then, er, no one wants to be seen.
Em – @ bubblebustin We have both flags but I kind of like them so I probably wouldn’t burn them. And yes we have been doing this all along but I think the idea is for the e-mails to arrive en masse, hopefully giving them more force. I’m banging pots and pans on “Casserole Nights” (Wednesdays 8PM) for the Quebec students (mostly in protest of Bill 78) BUT we have a cow bell that I could ring every time I press the SEND button on July 1st. Not than anyone would know why but just because it’s fun. 
saddened123 – @Em,Bubblebustin, I love your sense of Humour!
saddened123 – @all, Best Part of North America!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg
Blaze – It would be worth a try, but I have sent four e-mails to Jim Flaherty over the past two months with no response. As Tiger says, Flaherty’s “silence is deafening.”
Outragedcanadian – @Blaze & Bubblebustin, yes, I know we have, but Em’s right. What I thought might – perhaps – maybe – have an impact is to fill their mailboxes on Canada day with the same message from different people on Canada day asking for Canada to stand up for us. Maybe it’s a forlorn hope, but even if no one else does, I think I’ll have to try. The deafening silence IRKS me.
Bubblebustin – (note I did not re-post the video) @saddened, I’ll drink to that! Ok if not flags, how about we burn some effigies? Ok, seriously, I like the letter writing blitz. How about we come up with a message that we agree represents how we feel as a group and send it out en masse? Maybe we can make it from the Isaac Brock Society, as certainly it will get some notice this being the year we celebrate how we burned the white house down in the War of 1812? (Just kidding about the going back and doing it again part)
saddened123 – We need to get more attention..Blaze needs to lead the pack with her Uniform and Sword..
bubblebustin – @saddened, indeed, Blaze the way!
Blaze – “The pen is mightier than the sword.” In this case, it’s actually a computer, rather than a pen–but it reaches more people more quickly.
Here’s are some words I drafted. These are, of course, for discussion, revision or rejection
Two hundred years ago, Sir Isaac Brock fought against the attempted takeover of Canada by the Americans. He lost his life in battle defending what was to become the great nation of Canada.
Today, we celebrate with all Canadians his efforts which resulted in Canadian freedoms, values and independence which are the envy of the world.
On the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, Canada is again being threatened with Americaninvasion. This time the United States is trying to accomplish through financial bullying what they could not achieve two centuries ago through aggressive war efforts.
The Americans are attempting to invade the lives of law-abiding, honest tax-paying Canadian citizens and residents.
The United States is further attempting, through monetary threats, to force Canadian financial institutions to become an agent of the United States Internal Revenue Service and to force these financial institutions to contravene Canadian privacy, banking, human rights and charter laws.
Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) threatens Canadian sovereignty to determine and maintain the laws of Canada in protecting the rights of ALL of it’s citizens and residents to manage their personal financial affairs in privacy and with confidence with their chosen financial institution.
Approximately 1 million Canadians of American origin or heritage are affected by this attempted intrusion into the lives intrusion into the lives of honest, law-abiding, tax-paying Canadians.
While you have responded to some letters or e-mails, many others have gone unanswered. While you spoke out against FATCA publicly almost a year ago, your silence in recent months has been deafening.
It is time for you to stand up for the rights of Canadians of American origin, or those who may simply have had the misfortune to be born in the U.S. due to circumstances of their Canadian parents or hospitals at the time.
Sir Isaac Brock fought for and gave his life for Canada 200 years ago. On Canada’s birthday, I urge you to stand up for Canada now.
Tell the Americans Canada doesn’t negotiate with financial terrorists. Tell the Americans Canada is an independent democratic country which establishes and enforces laws to protect its citizens and residents. Tell the Americans no foreign government dictates what those laws will be.
Tell Canadian financial institutions they must comply with Canadian laws and they cannot violate those laws to meet the demands of a foreign government.
Most importantly, tell Canadians of American origin they and their financial privacy are safe. Assure Canadians that Canadian laws will not be changed meet the demands of a foreign government. . Learn more about how modern-day Canadians are standing up to the Americans as peaceful, modern day warriors at a forum in Sir Isaac Brock’s name. (http.isaacbrocksociety.com) Join us in ensuring Canadian freedoms are not lost. .
Don’t delay. Do it now. Sir Isaac Brock would expect no less from a Canadian leader.
saddened123 – @Blaze, Yes you are right, the Pen (Computer)is mightier than the sword.. That is a great letter!! Excellent!! Love it!
saddened123 – @Bubble, Love the Video Clip! Great!
bubblebustin – @Blaze, ok you’ve got the nuts and bolts there, but it sounds a little ranty and demanding (but not without passion!) It need tempering, but it could work well as a framework. @saddened, thanks!
Blaze – @bubblebustin’: What do you expect from someone with a Redcoat and a Sword? Unfortunately, I have found being calm and polite doesn’t get Flaherty’s attention.
It’s actually just meant as a draft and is open to changes, additions, deletions or total rejection. I’m a Brocker. I can take it.
Bubblebustin – @blaze, certainly no disrespect intended. I think what you wrote was great, from the heart. I think Flaherty gets it, I don’t know if we give our representatives here enough credit (although who’s to know?) I think there’s a lot of back room negotiating going on and I’ve heard it from a few relatively reliable sources that the Canadian OVDI submissions have been halted in Austin for some reason, and those from other countries are being processed. John Weston, my MP, on last communication said he was working hard on these issues, so I don’t think we’ve been forgotten. I think that these issues, including FATCA have become incredibly sensitive for both countries. Just my opinion, but I think we should approach on the premise that our (Canadian) government is doing what it can. Flaherty said what he had to say last year and at least has not publicly wavered on that.
Em – @ Blaze I think it should be shorter but honestly I wouldn’t want to leave anything out. I like the passion. I think my Flaherty letter was lacking passion because I didn’t want to tick off someone who seemed to be on our side — well not too much anyway. Oh and I think it has to be not specifically for Flaherty because this needs to go to Harper and others tool. EXAMPLE … While you spoke out against FATCA publicly almost a year ago, your silence in recent months has been deafening. COULD BE … While Finance Minister Flaherty spoke out … etc. That would make it easier to send. Knowing me if there was slightly different wording for each person I’d get them mixed up. The idea is to show them we have some numbers now and we are not going to be silent.
bubblebustin – a little music to inspire us all… (bubblebustin posted the Beatles ‘Revolution’, did not copy over)
Em – All right that got me brockin! Thanks bubblebustin.
bubblebustin – Looks like I might Brock around the clock tonight… My husband has a suggestion as to who to send the letter to. How about “Dear Canada”?
Em – Thumbs up from me for “Dear Canada”.
Calgary411 – @All, bubblebustin, Bubblebustin’s husband, on the sidelines, has cut through it all to come up with “Dear Canada”.
I like that idea too — simplification (KISS) .
Letters to the Editors of Canadian newspapers — i.e., for Calgary: the Calgary Herald; the Calgary Sun. And, even our little local weeklies — for instance those like “FastForward” in Calgary (http://www.ffwdweekly.com/)?
Outragedcanadian – @All, love it! I do think passion is required, if, as bubblebustin suggests, we can keep it from appearing to be a rant. I’ve found that quickly turns people off, leads them to think ‘okay, nutcase here’, while reasonable discussion causes an OMG, you’re not serious! that’s insane! response. Very nice work, Blaze! And I also love the Dear Canada idea. Out of curiosity, I checked the Calgary Herald rates, thinking what if we took out a banner or half page ad or something, but it appears to be extremely pricey, so I think your idea of the local weeklies, et al, is a great idea. I have 3 papers I can write to locally, although not sure they’d all publish since they’re sort of related.
Blaze – @EM: Loved got your brocking.
@bubblebustin’: Also love Brock Around The Clock. I can hear Elvis belting it out.
I also really like your husband’s idea of “Dear Canada” for a Canada Day letter. Then we could include Canadian newspapers. Many don’t publish on Canada Day, so if we did that, we should try June 30 (a Saturday) for those that don’t.
If we want to explore the idea of a common letter further, we may want a separate thread for it.
Now, I’m going to actually try to take a Brock Break for the rest of the weekend. Let’s see if I succeed. I think even Sir Isaac occasionally needed R and R
Blaze – Ooops! I think it was Bill Haley and the Comments who did Rock Around the Clock. I can still see Elvis belting it out Brock Around the Clock (with apologies to The Comet).
I definitely need that break I promised myself!
Em – I like the idea of brocking local Canadian newspapers (around the July 1st date) wherever possible. I know the editor of our small town paper so I could try to submit our “Dear Canada” letter to him.
badger -I like ‘Dear Canada’ too. Or, Dear, Beloved Canada. Could it say “as peaceful, modern day ‘RESISTERS’ ” rather than ‘warriors’? Might that wording resonate more with people who don’t understand how serious and far reaching the FATCA threat is yet? Don’t want them to turn off or start getting distracted from the main message?
And mentioning US attempts to retroactively reclaim people who relinquished or renounced decades ago when they chose to become citizens of Canada. Plus the ‘accidentals’. That is such an egregious example of imperial overreach and intrusion into Canada.
We should thank Flaherty for his past public statements and efforts, to give credit where it is due. But we need something to hearten us now, and note that the rest of the world is looking to Canada to lead – as Sir Isaac Brock led – as an example in resistance to US overreach – via FATCA (which is likely true given that we’re next door, and have an entwined history – Australia and others may very well be watching what happens here). And say that while there may be efforts being made in private, the Canadian PUBLIC needs to know that they will be protected. As we pay our taxes in full to Canada, and our Canadian accounts are already fully reported and overseen by the CRA and levels of Canadian government oversight – the US demands to implement FATCA are an insult to Canadian sovereignty. Sometimes even the best neighbour needs to be told where the acceptable limits of co-existence stand.
Mentioning that the US efforts are treating Canadian institutions as if they are vehicles for money laundering – might infuriate Canadians – since it is implying that our own domestic oversight is inadequate or negligent, and should be reporting to the US – bowing to US demands as if Canada was a US subject or colony.
bubblebustin – @all, I agree with Blaze that we should move our “Dear Canada” letter to its own thread so others don’t miss the opportunity to participate. She’s taking a well deserved break from Brock, any volunteers for the honour?
@Blaze
The privacy commissioner comments about “voluntary” agreements are quite correct and this is a key legal sticking point notwithstanding what TD Waterhouse is doing which I don’t believe is legal under Canadian law(although might very well be probing the reaction of the Privacy Commissioner).
@Pacifica: The really terrifying thing is I began all my many letters with these words: Let me be clear. Like Prime Minister Steven Harper, “I am Canadian and only Canadian.” Like Mr. Harper, I have only ever had a passport of one nation. That passport is Canadian.
I went on to say “I have been a proud Canadian since 1973,” I explained the USConesulate told me clearly, directly and firmly I was “permanently and irrevocably” relinquishing US citizenship,
I further said, “Since then, I , my employers, colleagues, friends, neighbours, bank, lawyer, accountant, physician and even my American family have considered me, like Prime Minister Harper, to be Canadian and only Canadian.’ I have lived, studied, worked, earned a living, owned a home, saved, invested, shopped, voted, volunteered and contributed here. I have diligently and faithfully paid taxes in Canada. Those taxes are higher than what I would have paid in United States. I have happily done so, knowing quality of life is far superior to the United States.”
I quoted from my citizenship certificate which guarantees me the full rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizenship. I made polite but firm suggestions that the Canadian government should advise US government that FATCA is a violation of Canadian privacy, banking and human rights laws, etc.,etc., etc. and outlined other issues in my two page letter.
The response back? Bob Rae called me a dual citizen. When I e-mailed him, insisting I an NOT a dual citizen, he didn’t respond or acknowledge. Elizabeth May and Jason Kenney didn’t respond at all. Steven Harper sent the letter to Jim Flaherty. John Baird (almost six months after my letter) sent the letter to Flaherty and acknowledged my concerns about OVDI (which I didn’t even mention in my lettter!). My own MP sent me a fact sheet on my obligations as a US citizen to file FBARs (with not even a mention of the fact CRA won’t collect FBAR penalties.)
As you’ve read above, the first person I dealt with in Privacy Commissioners office told me I am a U.S. citizen.
Don Davies, Foreign Affairs critic for the NDP called me personally and stressed NDP will continue to lobby the government to ensure the rights of Canadian citizens are protected under FATCA.
Can you imagine the public outcry if elected officials were ignoring letters from Canadian citizens born in India, Iran, China or Russia or were telling them they were still citizens of those countries (or calling them dual citizens.).
I have since sent four follow-up e-mails to Flaherty. I get a robo-letter response to each telling me my concerns will be brought to the Minister’s attention as soon as possible. It is now going on three months. Rae, May, Kenney, Baird, Davies and my own MP were copied on all of them–No response.
I won’t even get into the response from Canadian Bankers Association here. There is a whole separate thread for that.
So, that is why I’m so frustrated and ticked off–but still trying to be firm but polite (the Canadian way!).
@Tim: Thanks for being so prompt to respond today, especially when you are dealign with family medical issues. I’m glad you share my views on the “voluntary” issue. I hope that “sticking point” makes things real sticky for the banks and the government.
Now, I’m going to follow my own advice on OMG’s anxiety thread. I’m going to read a good book and have a great night’s sleep.
Don’t Brock Around The Clock tonight, everyone.
@Blaze
As difficult as it may seem I would take a few days “off” from “Brocking.” This issue will continue to play itself out and there will be many opportunities to fight, write letters, push for action, etc. Save your energy for the future. You have done the right thing in putting all of the relevant officials on notice. I think your communication with the Privacy Commissioners Office has been quite useful for all IBS members. I would continue to focus on that angle. If you don’t hear anything about TD Waterhouse in a few weeks follow up with your contact.
@Tim: A few days off?!? Yikes! I’ll go through withdrawal.
Actually, now might be a good time with Brock in transition. Yet, I want to see what the new site looks like and how it works.
Actually, I’m not that tired of writing letters. Like Just Me, writing actually helps me. I am frustrated at the responses I’ve been getting and the fact it often seems no one is reading or cares about the letters or worse wants to call me a U.S. citizen or a dual citizen.
But, I will put it on hold for a few days. I have some new ideas to write to now–FACA, CARP and your recent contact. All of that can wait. I’ve actually been planning on writing to CARP for a few weeks and FACA for a week, but they can wait a bit longer.
Reading about stress-busters on OMG’s anxiety post and knowing how some others are coping (or not), I count myself among the calm Brockers. And that probably says it all–so I’ll take your advice and check out of here and try to Get A Life for a few days.
I used to despise the term “dual citizen” and avoided the use of it, as I find it a misnomer. But lately I’ve been using it more and more (wrongly) I think to be expedient. Blaze’s frustration about being referred to as one reminded me of why I don’t like the term. It implies that one can have a dichotomous citizenship, to be both Canadian and American at the same time. This is false and I should be discouraging others from using the term. I am an individual with two citizenships, both US and Canadian—at least for the moment. But the ironic part about having a citizenship to both the US and Canada (or anywhere else) is that because of US citizenship based taxation, I in fact do have a status different from those who are just solely US or Canadian. In this hybrid, I am a second class citizen where I pay the higher of the two tax countries’ rates and get the lesser of the two countries’ deductions. I pay capital gains on fictive gains from the decline of the US dollar. I am subject to the whims of either countries’ policymakers whose policies often conflict with each other. I am in double jeopardy and I cannot thrive in this kind of environment and it’s causing me no end to my anxiety.
@bubblebustin: Considering this is my second post in two hours since I said I was going to follow Tim’s advice and take a few days off from Brocking, I don’t think I’m doing very well.
My concern about “dual” citizenship is two-fold. The first is I had every reason to believe US Consulate who told me I was “permanently and irrevocably” terminating US citizenship by becoming Canadian in 1973. I had every reason to be committed to the oath of renunciation I signed and swore at my Canadian citizenship ceremony. I think and hope Tim is right that I and others in my situation will be OK under FATCA.
More importantly, dual citizenship to me is like a bigamous marriage. How can one be faithful to more than one partner?. Last time I checked, bigamy was illegal in both countries.
@Blaze, I understand completely. Myself, I did the opposite from what you did. I didn’t take my Canadian citizenship when it would have meant US expatriation, as I did not yet see US citizenship as a liability. But I won’t be moving to Bountiful, BC any time soon, LOL!
@bubblebustin, good luck with the time away. I haven’t been able to last more than a day since I found out about all this! Reading this site has almost become an addiction.
My problem with being identified as a ‘dual’ is that it hits me at the core of my identity. I have thought of myself as Canadian since 1976, maybe even longer since I was a small child when we moved here. Getting my Canadian citizenship was only confirming what I already felt. To have someone tell me I am an American citizen feels wrong and is wrong. Since 1976, when the few people who found out where i was born said, ‘oh, you’re a dual citizen then’, I responded with no, I’m not, I became Canadian at a time that dual citizenship wasn’t legal. They accepted it, but it’s more than a little disheartening to learn that our own government workers are buying into the IRS propaganda and refer to us a dual.
At any rate, I will be writing and sending a whole new set of letters around July 1, and whether anyone reads them or not, whether anyone does anything or not, it will do ME a world of good to have spoken out (again).
I vote that “dual citizen” never be entered into the Brock glossary of terms.
@bubblebustin’: I think they’re always looking for more women in Bountiful!
@ bubblebustin’, outraged, Blaze. This is the damage done of the US being able to change tax law retroactively as was done for us who came to Canada so long ago and is again attempted based on Eduardo Saverin’s case. And, we have to defend / justify / prove ourselves innocent — not the US who has gotten away with this. We certainly should have had choice in the matters that so affect our lives.
Outraged, Calgary, et al: It feels like identity theft, doesn’t it?
Yes, Blaze and outraged, bubblebustin’, it certainly IS stealing the identity that we had and lived our lives as in the countries of our residence.
And, the perception of others in our countries (who are not us) regarding “dual citizens” is indeed difficult to turn around.
(Blaze, maybe you should start tomorrow — staying away from Brock for a few days is like quitting smoking or starting that diet.)
@All
I, proudly, became a Canadian in October, 1972. I did not perform the act lightly. I went into that citizenship ceremony so that I could fully become a Canadian and participate in Canadian society. Over the years, I have on occasion been referred to as ‘dual’. Usually, I would correct the speaker. Now I would be vigorous in correcting the speaker.
I have many friends here in Vancouver, who were born and raised in other countries – South Africa, Ireland, Hong Kong, Mexico, Iran, the UK, to name a few. I do not think they are referred to as ‘dual’ citizens. I do not believe they are afraid to return to their countries of birth. I do not believe they are afraid to have their financial institutions know where they were born.
There is something so wrong with this whole situation.
@Calgary: I certainly haven’t done very well since I said I was going to take a few days off about four hours ago, have I?
I did manage to stay off Brock last weekend, so maybe there is hope for me yet! One day at a time.
@blaze, I’m really turning into a sick puppy-I check for Brock posts on my iphone while I’m on my walks, and I’ve taken to bringing my reading glasses. We need help, LOL!
@bubblebustin’: Obsess: 1. preoccupy, fill the mind of (i.e. a person) continually 2. be continually preoccupied with
Sound familiar?
I really am going to take Tim’s advice and take a break for a few days (well, maybe just one or two days!). Now that I’ve declared it to the Brock World, I have to do it, right? (Of course, I declared it a few hours ago, too and we know how that worked).
Time to reclaim my life!
<b>Dual Citizen</b>
<b>Me got soso funtimes cawz allums soon hafta oversit wey me yap n pense. Allums soll do so me do cawz freeedm n fectif yap rkwir selftawk.</b>
[Transition assistance: Anytime I come across a word or phrase in the English language that I don’t like, I just make a substitution or spell it the way I want to or assign the meaning that I would like for the word or phrase to have. I’ve tossed out all my dictionaries because they are useless.]
I can “use these HTML tags and attributes”? I don’t think so. The new comment box lies?
OK, OK, I went to profile and disabled visual editor. I’m assuming that takes effect with next signon and will do the job.
No, wrong, that huge string of lies continues to lurk underneath the new comment box.
That profile configuration seems to affect thread authoring only.
@Blaze, June 4, 8:58 pm
I’m just back after a brief Brock-break.
It is especially alarming that the politicians and/or their staff (all of whom certainly should know better) are disregarding your true statement that you’re a Canadian and calling you/us duals.
Is it sheer ignorance (which is wrong in itself) or do they figure that by classifying people as duals, it’s not a Canadian problem, so they can blow it off (which is disgusting)? Probably sheer ignorance (I tend to be an optimist (most of the time:)). Hopefully we can educate them.
Maybe a short e-mail to all members of Parliament, outlining that all USCs becoming Canadian before 1975 did an oath of renunciation; and all USCs becoming Canadian before 1986 were presumed to have relinquished; and even after the presumption was reversed in 1986, many chose to relinquish. Maybe we can make the inappropriate use of “dual” the new politically-incorrect word.
@ Dual citizens: I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with being a dual. I just think it’s wrong to classify people incorrectly.
BDO Canada, one of the “second-tier” international accounting firms, published a nine-page Tax Bulletin called “Tax Consequences for U.S. Citizens and Other U.S. Persons Living in Canada”. It is fairly comprehensive although high-level at the same time. It was published in April 2012 so it may have already been referenced at IBS:
http://www.bdo.ca/library/publications/tax/documents/Tax-Consequences-for-US-Citizens-and-other-US-Persons-Living-in-Canada.pdf
I happened to watch the War of 1812 on PBS last night, and thought I would add that video to the various threads as an important archive addition to Isaac Brock Society. Learned a lot I did not know. Yes, Isaac Brock got lots of coverage!