The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
@calgary411
Thanks, calgary. I do have adobe-reader installed. I just now figured out how to open the link (right click/open in new tab). Maybe this old brain has some life in it yet. Thanks for trying to figure it out.
Experience in Germany (Frankfurt):
Only 1 appointment ca. 4 weeks after initial contact, with information exchanged by letter and e-mail beforehand, so I and the consulate had everything needed.
(Possibly an appointment space had opened up, because they initially said it would be 8-12 weeks.)
I took my US passport, my “Einbürgerungszusicherung” from Germany (saying that the Germans would give me citizenship when I got the “Certificate of Loss of Nationality”) and the Statement of Understanding, plus the form for the fee.
The vice consul was quite courteous, but made sure I was serious about it and understood it was irrevocable.
They took my US passport and gave me a sort of receipt (in German) for it.
3 weeks later, the consulate sent the Certificate of Loss of Nationality and the invalidated passport by certified mail (Einschreiben).
It took about a week to get a notarized translation of the Certificate of Loss of Nationality, which I needed to become a German, and another 2 weeks until I had a passport again.
A colleague who has to travel a lot for his job somehow managed to get the US consulate and the German side to coordinate so he was only without travel ID for about 1 1/2 weeks.
Hi, Sally and welcome.
Thanks for giving us your story.
Did this just happen for you and can you confirm that it is a renunciation?
Could you share the actual month and year for your first contact, then for your appointment, and finally for when you got your Certificate of Loss of Nationality? That would be so helpful to put in the database we’re compiling, a snapshot of what is happening and where.
It sounds like your experience was reasonable and things went faster for you since you had to have your CLN before you were able to receive your German citizenship.
Congratulations, Sally!
Congratulations, Sally. It is interesting to hear another European story.
@Calgary & Petros: This entire thread is fascinating. Would it be possible to pin it to the top so that it does not get lost under all the other posts?
@Rodgrod, Along these lines, as well as collating time-line data, we also wanted to make the stories of peoples’ experiences at the consulates more accessible, as they appear throughout various threads.
I have been compiling people’s stories on consulate visits throughout the website and organising them by consulate for easy reference. I expect to post this, also as a pdf, later today.
First contact with the consulate was in Feb. 2011. Appointment in March 2011 and I got the CLN in mid-April 2011.
Still have to do the final tax form dance with the IRS though. Need my German tax paperwork before I can start that.
And it was a renunciation. (Sorry, I missed that. It’s late and I should go to bed.)
Thanks very much for the additional info, Sally. It will be added to the database for Renunciation and Relinquishment — part of the picture we’ll forming. You’re almost done so congratulations on all the hard work it took!
Hi All,
For those of you you can’t or don’t want to use google to read the documents I’ve posted their you can try the link at the bottom of this reply. The documents I’ve posted there are:
a) Renunciation letter
b) Renunciation Questionnaire
c) Renunciation Info Sheets
d) DS-408
e) DS-4081
I’ve shared them at:
https://www.wuala.com/rose_a/z_public/?key=cBsMdwmDtFxg
I relinquished my US citizenship in Toronto in November 2011. I was told it would take 3-4 months for my CLN to arrive but I am still waiting for it. It took a couple of weeks between the time I contacted them and my one and only appointment.
I would suggest downloading all the necessary forms because I still have not received the blank copies of them that they mailed to me twice.
In my pre-appointment phone discussions, there was some concern that I only had a wallet-sized Certificate of Canadian Citizenship card rather than a letter-sized one. I checked with a representative of Service Canada, who said there were two types of Certificates: the old laminated wallet-sized card and the new letter-sized paper one. I thought about getting a new letter-sized certificate, just to make things easier, until I read the application for it and discovered that it is illegal to have more than one copy of a Certificate of Canadian Citizenship in your possession at any one time. I pointed this out at another pre-appointment phone discussion and subsequently only had to photocopy the front and back sides of my wallet-sized card.
I have found both the Toronto consulate staff and the IRS staff to be quite friendly and helpful throughout this whole process. Being a “minnow” with uncomplicated investments and zero tax liability, I filed my tax returns myself (7 years of them as instructed by the IRS). Having no income tax liability, I was not charged with any late filing fees. I have also filed six years of FBARs along with an explanatory letter. Although I became a Canadian citizen in 1987, and even though I advised the IRS in the summer of 1990 that I had become a Canadian, and even though the bill requiring expatriating citizens to formally tell the US consulate of their intention to relinquish their citizenship was not signed into law by George W. Bush until the fall of 1990, the IRS legal department has specifically advised me that they will forever consider me to be a US citizen until they receive my 8854.
@Cornwall,
Thanks for submitting your information for your experience in Toronto to include in our database — and congratulations.
Can you please confirm that this was relinquishment rather than renuniciation? i.e., it appears that you would have been considered to be US, having filed both IRS tax returns and FBARs. If it was relinquishment, what did you use as your “expatriating act”? We want to make sure that your information is included in the proper column as one of the purposes of the information gathering is to differentiate relinquishments and renunciations.
Are you planning on submitting a Form 8854 to complete the process to the regulations of the IRS?
Thanks so much for your help in letting us include your information!
To clarify:
I relinquished my citizenship. My expatriating act was to take the Canadian oath of citizenship. I have also not voted in the US, not renewed my US passport, nor filed any tax returns (until recently for the 8854) since acquiring Canadian citizenship. I explained on my DS-4079 that I had only just recently filed US tax returns on the advice of the IRS because, while it was my intent to lose my US citizenship, it was not my intent to disobey any of their rules.
I will be filing a 8854.
Thanks, Cornwall
Thanks for further clarifying. And, please, let us know what happens next in getting your Certificate of Loss of Nationality.
It’s great you “relinquished” — and it will be important information for all of us on how this process progresses for you. My congratulations and best of luck in the outcome.
As mentioned in another thread, I renounced yesterday (March 26, 2012). My first request for an appointment was on Jan. 26, 2012 and I received a telephone call on approximately Mar. 1, letting me know of my Mar. 26 appointment. I was told that I will get my CLN in somewhat less than a year.
Thanks for the additional information. I’ll update our database with your information, Bruce.
Reblogged this on Stop Unconstitutional Double Taxation.
Here’s the info on my first step of relinquishment at the Vancouver Consulate today:
-arrived 25 minutes early and lined up outside in the Citizen Services Line. The other line was for visas.
-Everyone is very courteous but the security is a bit tighter than airports but no visible weapons. Pack of gum was a mistake. I had to take it outside, open it and then bring it back in. I did leave my vehicle fob and cell phone hidden in my vehicle. I saw a few people in panic trying to dispense of their possessions.
-The document transfer inside consisted of (1) getting an order number and handing over my ID, (2) sitting down, (3) handing over my prepared forms, (4) sitting back down, (5) final discussion with the interviewer.
-I brought a book, as suggested by another correspondent, but I was too wired to read.
-4081: At the final discussion, he only took one copy, did not care that I had crossed out “renounce” all over the page, He was completely aware of the difference between renounce and relinquish and indicated that relinquishment would give me a back dated CLN in 2-12 months. Most likely 12 months. I signed the 4081 but no seal was affixed. He warned me that I would never be able to travel on a US passport or vote.
-4079: He took both copies, asked me the same questions that were on the form. I was told to come back in two months to sign the forms. The waiting period is required by law. They will be checking to see if I have done any patriotic acts: voting, filing, passports, etc.
-No fees at this point and they weren’t interested in my immigration card with the date I entered Canada.
-I was out exactly one hour after my appointment time. Emotionally fried of course.
@Dawid
Is it safe to assume that your ‘relinquishment’ is based on becoming a citizen of Canada in the distant past? When did you become a citizen of Canada? Did they ask you to attach a list of your reasons for relinquishing – I believe Johnnb and his wife were asked if they wanted to attach a ‘story’ to the forms when they went to the Halifax consulate earlier in the year. And finally was there any mention of contacting the IRS regarding tax forms?
@tiger
I became a citizen in ’85. They did not ask for an attachment, I answered the questions on the form and the space there was adequate (I filled out the form on-line and then printed it). There was no mention of contacting the IRS, though I’m sure that will come.
@Dawid. Congratulations on today’s step. Did you come away with any kind of receipt or copy of what you signed?
Congratulations, Dawid. You are a huge step in front of me. I haven’t made an appointment as yet with the Vancouver consulate. My expatriating act occurred in 1972. I guess my big fear about going to the consulate is possibly exposing my 3 Canadian-born, adult sons to the long arm of the IRS, who might want to claim them as ‘accidental americans’. I know that when/if I go to the consulate, I would probably get hassled by the IRS. I would probably choose to ignore them. I just don’t think I want my sons and their families hassled.
Tiger – The supplemental information required by Vancouver consulate means that “exposing” your children would be a certainty, not a possibility – unless you failed to comply with the form.
@usxcanada
I had a look at ‘supplemental information’ requred by Vancouver consulate. The only reference I saw to children was this question – “Have you sponsored any children for U.S.citizenship claims through you? If so, when? Provide names, date and locations”. I have no trouble answering the question with a ‘no’. I never registered any of my children with a US consulate. I could be interpreting the question incorrectly, but I certainly never sponsored any children for US citizenship. Is there some ‘supplemental information’ required by Vancouver consulate that is not required by other consulates. Certainly reading on this site the stories of others who have gone to register their long past expatriating act and to seek official recognition of their ‘relinquishing’ act, have not mentioned being asked for details of their children.
OK. If you did not register your children, you should stand in the clear with that extra form. Sorry if I caused you any worry.
@Dawid
Glad your visit to the consulate went well. I relinquished in Dec and also signed 4079 at the time. I was never asked to come back after 2 months to sign it.
@everyone Anyone else have to come back 2 months later to sign 4079?
@tiger I have 3 adult Canadian kids, too, that were never registered. I couldn’t have anyway since I left the US as a kid, but the consulate never asked me anything about them. i just answered “no” on the form about registering children