The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
I am delighted to report that a friend of my wife, whom we both were advising, got a call today from the Toronto Consulate. Her relinquishment CLN has arrived; would she like it mailed, or will she pick it up? (She lives in Ottawa, and on our strong advice went to Toronto rather than the embassy, so she has to wait a couple of days for the Consulate mail room and Canada Post to get the papers to her, but it’s a done deal.)
It’s taken seven and a half months from the date of her (one and only) interview in Toronto until she got her CLN (backdated to her Canadian naturalization in the 1970s). That’s not great time, but not the worst, and we did have the holidays in there, during which I doubt anything was moving. It’s not out of line.
I feel especially happy because our friend is the last of the persons here in Ottawa whom I’ve been helping and advising, finally to get her CLN. I feel very satisfied about that. I hope everyone else visiting this thread, who is still waiting for their CLNs, take heart and keep the faith, they are coming, in batches it seems, but at least Toronto is keeping things moving along. Maybe the logjam in Washington is breaking too, let’s hope so. (I suspect 95% of that timing was in Washington and not in Toronto, from everything else I’ve seen and heard – Toronto doesn’t drag their feet on these cases, unlike a few other places.)
Sincere congratulations and good wishes to your wife’s friend, Schubert — I am sure she counts you among one of her friends too, having given her proper advice to make her appointment in Toronto instead of at the Ottawa Embassy!
It is so encouraging to hear of another successful relinquishment from the 70’s. Oh, to give each of those who came to Canada during those times, the encouragement to claim the relinquishment they “knew” they had all this time. If I were a journalist, this would be NEWS.
I have updated the Renounce & Relinquish database with your friend’s CLN information, as well as that of my daughter’s CLN (Calgary). Bravo.
Received a call yesterday that my CLN had been approved and was ready for pick up. Drove down this morning and now have it in hand!
It took about a month to arrive following the Consulate visit…(Consulate visit in Halifax on December 12th 2012, CLN in hand today, Jan 17th, 2013).
*@Mach73, Wow, Congratulations!!
You are really lucky, I am so happy for you!! I am still waiting to hear about Canadian Citizenship.
Congratulations, mach73!!
You, I believe, now hold the record fastest receipt of CLN, beating out another from Halifax. I am updating the Relinquish & Renounce database — Halifax also has now won Canadian US Consulate Bingo — those who either renounced or relinquished (as you did) at the Halifax Consulate and reported here have all received your CLN’s so no blanks left uncoloured on the database. Your winnings are great — Certificates of Loss of Nationality of US Citizenship and all that citizenship unrightly tied you to. (I hope other Halifax renouncers and relinquishers who have not reported here also have theirs in hand.)
Well done, Halifax US Consulate.
@Mach73 Holy cow! One month! If that isn’t a world record, it sure is a Canadian record, as far as I know. Kudos to the consulate in Halifax! Vancouver consulate should take lessons from them (never mind the Embassy in Ottawa …) And someone in Washington also has finally unplugged their thumb … Let’s hope we see more of this, and from other consulates!
Wow! Congratulations, Mach73! Welcome to Freedom! That’s super! One month! I love Halifax! Good on Washington, too … looks like they really are catching up!
Hey, Calgary411, Consulate Bingo — I like that 🙂
Congratulations @mach73! I also renounced through Halifax but mine took exactly eight months.
@mach73, congratulations. I hope our joy isn’t short-lived, as I wonder how many USP’s who make over $200K-the Obamacare fundraisers- wanting to access US consulates might slow the processing down. I see a tsunami of renunciants with this latest nail in the coffin of the beleaguered expat. Even if you make <200K the increase of news coverage is sure to get more people renouncing/relinquishing.
Thanks to everyone for the congrats on my CLN.
Halifax is by far a good Consulate to deal with.
@Saddened…It has been a long time coming for your Canadian Citizenship…hopefully you will hear some good news soon.
For anyone that is deciding to use Halifax as there relinquishment/renounciation point and do not live close to the city, I would be more than happy to offer transportation to and from the consulate if you happen to fly in. Would need some lead time to arrange my shcedule, but it can be done.
Great news mach73! And your CLN arrived at mach speed — very fitting. We’ve never been to Halifax and it is a long ways from here but maybe when the time comes for my husband to renounce we might just consider a long road trip east.
*@USCanada, @Calgary, and @Em and @Woofy, I have concluded that if I decide to expatriate that I would have to renounce rather than relinquish because I did vote in a US election after getting my new citizenship. At the time, I had been blissfully unaware of all the problems and had wanted to maintain dual nationality as I love both countries. But have concluded after much soul searching that giving up US citizenship would make my life so much easier.
But I am stumped by the 4079 form because had originally thought I’d only have to fill it in if I were trying to relinquish, which I obviously cannot. However, the problem I see with this form are two things: it seems to try to be catching me out to see whether I still believed I was an American citizen or something. I’d imagine this could pertain to people like Calgary who believed that they were no longer US citizens after taking the Canadian Oath way back but later on told that they are, in fact, still American.
The form specifically asks whether I performed the act of swearing an oath to a foreign power with the intention to relinquish at the time. The problem with this awkward question is that I’m concerned that if I am honest and explain that I hadn’t intended to relinquish at that time (because it seemed better at the time to maintain both passports). But the gist of this form is that it blatantly asks me in Part II to make a statement of voluntary relinquishment. All I can think is that the best thing to do is to answer everything honestly and leave Part II blank.
I would thus have to renounce because I’d already subsequently voted, filed taxes, travelled on my US passport, etc. So what’s the point in this form then??? I’m confused about it and afraid that they may assume that I’d be trying to renounce under duress since I’d be stating on this form that I hadn’t had any intention to renounce and that I still consider myself as a U.S. citizen, which I acknowledge I still am. It almost seems as though they’re trying to entrap me so that my request to renounce would be nullified. Hmmmmmm………….
From where I’m standing, it almost seems as though they’re using the 4079 as a means to check to see if I’d be choosing to renounce to escape from Godzilla. Hopefully they’d realize that I’d have to renounce on a technicality because of my past actions subsequent to getting British nationality too.
Hi Mona Lisa,
Yes, you leave Part 2 blank.
The problem with the 4079 is that they use it for both renunciation and relinquishment and even for people who are trying to claim US citizenship. Don’t worry that they’re trying to catch you out — I don’t think it’s designed for that, I think it’s just poorly designed!
You bring up a good point about why they even ask for it with renunciations. It doesn’t really serve a purpose in that context as what one does before renouncing has no real bearing on things — obviously a person is a USC, and does USC stuff, before they renounce.
The DOS manual actually says it’s not “standard” in renunciations but could prove useful in some renunciation cases — but pretty much every consulate asks for it anyway.
@monalisa,
Re: The form specifically asks whether I performed the act of swearing an oath to a foreign power with the intention to relinquish at the time. The problem with this awkward question is that I’m concerned that if I am honest and explain that I hadn’t intended to relinquish at that time (because it seemed better at the time to maintain both passports). But the gist of this form is that it blatantly asks me in Part II to make a statement of voluntary relinquishment. All I can think is that the best thing to do is to answer everything honestly and leave Part II blank.My advice: Fill out the form (it may not even be needed as in my case). For this question, just put that your are renouncing, not relinquishing. No, I don’t think they are trying to trap you.
From the report on my renunciation. We had filled out Form 4079 but they didn’t want it or want to even look at it. All information was for the Statement of Understanding and the Oath of Renunciation was taken from the questionnaires we faxed in to the Calgary Consulate before our appointment. Their forms (not ours that we had with us) were prepared and ready to sign. (Very efficient, no fuss)
Good luck!!! So glad you have made your decision.
Good point, Calgary, but it does look like London was asking for it in the Spring. You could check with them, Mona Lisa, to make sure they still do or not.
*monalisa1776, don’t worry about it. I voted, served in the US military, filed US taxes, traveled with a US passport and always viewed myself as being an American. Yet, I renounced last year and the renunciation was accepted, so why would they nullify your request to renounce? These days, it is perfectly normal and acceptable for American expats to renounce US citizenship in order to live normal lives abroad.
*Thanks so much @Pacific, @Swiss and @Calgary for your prompt responses!!! Sounds as though the best thing is to indeed just be honest and straightforward about it. My only other main concern is this: what happens if I expatriated during 2013 but didn’t receive my CLN before the 15 June 2014 deadline to file the final US tax return for the 2013 year, along with the the 8854 to log me out of the IRS system?? I was led to believe that I could file a 4868 for an extension to file the 8854 as late as 15 Oct 2014 (along with the tax return, itself).
But what would happen if, say, my renunciation appointment wasn’t available till towards the end of 2013 and thus causing the arrival of the CLN to be delayed beyond the filing deadlines? My understanding is that if I missed the extended deadline of 15 Oct 2014 to file this final tax return and the 8854 that I’d be deemed a covered expatriate and thus really royally screwed.
Seems so many hoops to leap through; I’m guessing that because of this, especially as some people have had to wait over a year to receive a CLN that this could pose a very real risk. I’m guessing that it thus makes sense to renounce as early on as possible during 2013 to ensure that there’s ample time to receive the needed CLN to be able to know that the renunciation was officially approved and thus enabling my accountant to file the 8854 for me.
I understand that the renunciation would be backdated to the actual date that one took the renunciation oath; but at the same time, the said renunciation isn’t actually official until it’s been accepted in Washington. So until receipt of the CLN, there would be a period of possibly several months of limbo until I’d know whether it went through….????
I know someone on here mentioned the notion that it would have been better to have expatriated towards the end of 2012 so I wouldn’t have to file a tax return in 2014 for tax year 2013 and thus be able to log out quicker; but it seems that this could raise the risk of not receiving the CLN in time to meet the filing deadlines, even with a extension filed for 8854. So am wondering if some renunciants could be risking covered status because of this overlapping window.
*@monalisa, I see no reason why you cannot renounce. At one time you thought it would be best for your to maintain dual nationality, but given what has happened with the latest tax legislation in Washington, you have changed your mind. Today having dual nationality makes it very difficult, if not in fact impossible, to survive living abroad in the country which is now your home, unless you renounce US citizenship.
Washington changed the rules for US citizens living abroad and so you have every right to change your mind.
@ Mona Lisa,
Wow, we’re a long way from June or October 2014, so I would tend to cross those 8854-deadline bridges if it looked like they actually might come up. I suspect if you book an appointment this winter, you’ll have your CLN by the end of this year, probably by this summer.
It’s a good question. No one at Brock seems to have run into deadline problems yet. I’d probably just file the 8854, no extension, in the belief that the CLN will be approved — but I’ve never been in the situation, it’s just what I think I’d do.
The year-long waits for CLN seem to have been an aberration confined to Canada and apparently was caused by a staffing problem in our zone (the CLN approval office divides the world into 6 zones.) If your CLN takes an abnormally long time in arriving, like it appears to have fallen through the cracks in DC and the consulate can’t or doesn’t help, in the worst case scenario, we have the contact information for the directors for each zone.
Re:“So until receipt of the CLN, there would be a period of possibly several months of limbo until I’d know whether it went through….????”
Though CLNs are officially approved in Washington, they’re basically approved at the consulate. And in the case of renunciation, it’s pretty black and white. Do you know what you’re doing (the consequences)? Are you doing it voluntarily? Really nothing there that Washington can decide.
*@Roger and @Pacifica, I agree that I probably would have nothing to REALLY worry about by renouncing. It’s just that I hate the ambiguities: for instance, @Roger, when you said that, ”… At one time you thought it would be best for your to maintain dual nationality, but given what has happened with the latest tax legislation in Washington, you have changed your mind. Today having dual nationality makes it very difficult, if not in fact impossible, to survive living abroad in the country which is now your home, unless you renounce US citizenship.
Washington changed the rules for US citizens living abroad and so you have every right to change your mind..”
Yes, I agree with what you’re saying; but wouldn’t the the fact that my admitting that having dual nationality makes it very difficult to survive in my country I now call home because of changed rules in Washington would seem to me a fairly blatant reference to tax compliance problems. I hate having to walk on eggshells like this. I’m sure they already know why people are expatriating in such huge increasing numbers but it seems that to even acknowledge the annual filing complexities and professional costs (even if no double taxation is due) is taboo to them.
I hate how things are developing; I had hoped early last year when If first get involved with Brock that Congress would have seen the Light and done something for us. But it’s obvious to me now that the FATCA Compliance Complex and politicians with vested interests aren’t going to acknowledge the collateral damage. It’s obvious in the recent Dems Abroad memo that they’re not going to do anything to help us any time soon.
The mere arrogance of their patronizing statement to the effect that having to accept an ongoing financial burden for the ‘privilege of living abroad’ made my blood boil. I’d always considered it a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE. It would seem that there is indeed an invisible wall going up to keep US Persons in by stealth.
It frankly frightens me. And yet, we’re effectively forced by these onerous circumstances to chew off our foot so we can escape the trap. I am heartbroken that I am having to do this to survive a normal life, especially when I’m not a whale.
I realize that some Homelanders will consider me a whiner and even a traitor or coward but at least my parents understand; they’re not happy about it but realize the difficulties.
I was especially pissed off with the Dems Abroad not even acknowledging the problems faced by accidentals and those who’d inherited US Citizenship or those such as in Calgary’s case. It’s as though they gloss over everything because they all have their own agenda. We essentially don’t matter. How could my country force me into permanent exile. They make our situations impossible without doing something so drastic, just as Petros says. It all makes me VERY angry and bitter. I know that I will survive but will never be quite the same; it’s all been a real eye-opener to the murkiness of things.
It is indeed essentially a divorce.
Not much longer before we can expect those Q4 renunciation numbers…
*@monalisa, I agree it would not be wise to mention double taxation as your reason for citizenship. But fear of not being able to maintain a bank account in the country where you live is like havng a guiillotine suspended above your neck. Thousands of Americans living abroad have already had this guillotine fall on their necks, so even it has not fallen on yours yet it is a nightmarish reality that many Americans abroad have every right to fear and therefore take action to avoid.
@Monalisa, you present a dilemma, but I not sure it is something to get over worried about. The date of your renunciation is the date of your expatriation–that is clear. So you can file the 8854 if you like, before receiving the CLN, while mentioning that you haven’t received the approval of the CLN yet (I sent a copy of the CLN with mine since I expatriated in April and received the approval in April of the following year before the June 15 filing deadline). Or you could wait until you receive the CLN to file the 8854, as an amendment to your taxes for the final year of your citizenship, reporting only income up to the date that you renounce (because everything thereafter is earned as a free woman living outside the United States).
@ MonaLisa,
Your comment comparing this to divorce really resonated with me. When this mess started for me in 2011, I thought about my relationship with the US and realised that actually terminating my US citizenship in 1979 was sort of like breaking up with one’s high school boyfriend – life beckoned and you move on, keeping fond memories … but now, they’re trying to turn it into a ugly-ass divorce.
***
Re: Democrats Abroad:
Yeah, bloody patronising. And weirdly, that word “privilege” sounds more like the old Eastern Bloc rather than the old US.
***
I think no matter what you do (in any serious situation), some people will never understand it. If people like your parents understand, that’s important because they’re important to you.
*@Petros, thanks for trying to reassure me about filing 8854 on time…
@Roger, very true point though in UK not so much of an issue because of their IGA with US. It seems to me that my reasons for wanting to renounce would be fairly obvious. I still find it very awkward.
To be frank, money’s not everything to me; if I had a higher income or more secure salary, I’d have probably decided still in favour of keeping both citizenships. But when annual tax compliance will be costing me around 15% of my net income ongoing for the rest of my life, especially when we both have below average wages just seems too onerous to me for the ‘privilege’ of my ‘exceptional’ US citizenship.