The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
@calgary
That is great news re hearing from Ms. Johnson. I hope that perhaps the Vancouver consulate, if given instruction to process ‘relinquishment’ cases in 1 appt., might actually, speed up the booking of 2nd appts for people like myself and Dawid.
@Dawid,
‘They told me to let them know if I want my 2nd appt’ – how long ago was your first appointment? My first appt. was Sept. 21 – not all my documents were accepted – correct documents were sent to them October 10 – they acknowledged receipt and said they would be in touch and basically that my request for 2nd appt. would be put in a queue. I am curious as to how long you have been waiting – and did they offer you a 2nd appt at your first appt. Had my documents all been accepted on Sept. 21st, my 2nd appt. would have been booked at that time.
*It sounds like the US Ambassador to Canada, and probably US ambassadors at American embassies around the world, are quite aware of the torture and abuse that US citizens abroad are currently going through.
But can just imagine their total frustration at not being able to do anything about it.
It is Congress that has enacted these totally heartless laws. Amercans living abroad are experencing what be described as very much lke what people trapped behing the Iron Curtain experenced in not being able to leave the countries where they lived.
Now it is the Americans who live abroad that live in absolute fear of their own government, not knowing if they are going to survive or if their entire life savings for retirement, their homes where they live and their estates when they die are gong to be confiscated because of laws on the books which they never knew of which most unjustlh brand them as criminal tax evaders deserving maximum punishment. Fear of what might happpen to them if they visit the US is real.
They are not being kept in, but are being exiled abroad.
*It is illegal for a US citizen to leave or enter the US without a US passport. Starting to kinda remind me of the Berlin wall – just a bit.
@Woofy,
The law is the law is the law, but not one that has been enforced. They’ve turned a blind eye for a long, long time, except for the exceptional exceptions in crossing. Keeps us on our toes though.
@tiger. My first appointment was in early April and I was told they would contact me in two months to set up a second appointment. In June they asked for additional documents, I only had a hospital certificate and they required a civil birth certificate. I was able to obtain a civil certificate within 3 weeks. They finally offered me the opportunity for a second appointment in September if I responded, which I did, twice. The state I was born in accomplished more in 3 weeks than the consulate has done in 6 months. They do seem to be scheduling the relinquishment cases differently than the renouncements.
Thank you so much for your efforts @Calgary411. Congratulations on your persistence in trying to get some acknowledgement from Ambassador Jacobson or his office. I’m very very skeptical about the man himself, as per him not knowing a lot about this stuff already (after all, he’s had a year to think about the Canadian grannies being persecuted by the IRS), but at least now his office can’t say he doesn’t know how this is affecting lots of ordinary people in Canada, and their families. I don’t trust him myself, because he is a Democrat, and was a Democratic fundraiser, and close with Obama – he knows all about FATCA and its aims. He has heard all the speeches about ‘offshore’ tax evaders and their ‘foreign’ accounts, by Shulman and Geithner. He knows perfectly well that all our accounts in Canada are considered ‘foreign’ for IRS purposes.
His job is to make the US look good in Canada, and he has to know for example, that Obama and his strategists made a decision to drop those abroad as a group of interest, from the Democrats campaign in 2012 after highlighting us deliberately in 2008 – and pretending that he cared about our issues. Realistically, if Obama and the bulk of the Democrats had any interest whatsoever in US citizens abroad, Carolyn Maloney wouldn’t have had such a hard time finding co-sponsors for her bill.
He’s working on the crossborder joint security negotiations -which involves US passports, and he has got to know how these issues will all intersect. And, he’s a lawyer.
If we can read and figure out some of this interrelated stuff between US extraterritorial taxes, passports and the control of movement of US persons, and capital controls, he can too.
*As of today the Toronto consulate offers only 8 more appointments before the end of the year, all in the second week of December.
*@tiger, the law reqiring that US citizens, who may be dual nationals of another country, must enter and leave the US using only a US passport has been on the tbooks almost forever, but as you state it has not been enforced with any strictness at all in moving back and forth across the US-Canadian border, until recently.
But it has been rigidly enforced when traveling from a country where the foreign citizen must obtain a visa from a US consulate in order to enter the US. In these cases I am aware that the US consulate absolutely would not stamp a US visa in the foreign passport if it was aware that the person also held US citizenship. The consulate would insist that the traveler apply for and it would issue a US passport to a person in this situation. And of course with US citizenship and a US passport the person could then freely enter and leave the US.
Back in those days the Consulate never mentioned anything about the person beingt required to file US tax returns or anythng about being subject to US taxes.
@Dawid
Are you saying that in September you responded to them (twice) that you wished a second appointment and it is now November and they have still not contacted you with a 2nd appointment date. Unbelieveable!!!
I do think the best thing for me might just be to request my file be transferred to Calgary. And perhaps even more important if the Canadian government (who has been deafening silent for so long) is now making noises about ‘making a deal’ with the devil.
Zerohedge.com: “Obama’s Victory Is Very Bullish For This Google Search Query”
The query in question? “Renounce Citizenship”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-09/obamas-victory-very-bullish-google-search-query
Imagine that?
Original story link:
http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/renounce-citizenship-is-now-one-of-the-fastest-growing-search-terms-in-google-9536/
@tiger
Twice and no appointment yet. No response. No indication they’ve received my emails. Quite rude, really. They’ve asked me at least three times for my social security number. Maybe they can’t get over the fact that I don’t have one. Maybe they don’t understand the concept of US Citizen SERVICES…or maybe they do, and this is the way they treat Canadians.
BTW, one of the articles I found in the archives here contained an interview with someone from the North Shore Credit Union. Its a year old, but they indicated they were deliberately disconnected from US influence since 9/11. I’m not sure if the Canadian government acquiensence will mandate disclosure, and that some time in the future this CU would have to provide privilidged information on its clients, but at this time they seem to be adverse to it.
I got my CLN today!!!
Didn’t get any mail yesterday (Friday). My husband and I were going to the library and grocery this afternoon (Saturday) and, walking through the lobby, I saw a brown envelope in my mailbox (the postman must have been late yesterday). I am so delighted! I don’t have words. This is 34 years of my life. It feels great to have the official document!
Funny thing, back when I actually relinquished my citizenship in 1979, leading up to it my thinking basically was, “You have two good countries. Choose one.” The day I actually became a Canadian and relinquished 34 years ago was not emotional for me, it was a logical progression of my life. I was neither happy nor sad to lose myUS citizenship. But times have changed, specifically the US ’ attitude has changed – and so getting that CLN was emotional and joyful! If was a sense of relief that I could not have imagined in my wildest dreams when I chose between “two good countries” many years ago.
What a year this has been — what a delight to see the reality of my life on paper!
Thanks, Brockers, for the info and moral support!
FROM ALL OF US HERE AND THANKS FOR ALL YOU DO FOR US, PACIFICA!!!
That’s so sweet, Calgary. That’s just how I feel — I’m having a glass of wine right now! Thanks!
Terrific news, pacifica777! Enjoy the wine and don’t spill a drop on that precious CLN. 😉
I’ll repeat publicly the congratulations that I sent privately. You’ve suffered so much over this, Pacifica, and finally you’re finished with it.
Stay off the sidewalks and roads this evening after the wine; we’re supposed to be getting freezing drizzle tonight here in Ottawa. Wine and freezing rain don’t mix. Stay home. We need you at IBS, and you need to get on with the rest of your life without this US crap hanging over your head!
Bravo and best wishes! We’ve all come a long way the past year and more, haven’t we!
Welcome to the CLN Club, and “farewell to de swamp,” to paraphrase that now-ancient Kia commercial. And remember to blow a hell of a loud “raspberry” at the US Embassy the next time you pass it on Sussex Drive! (I do.)
Congrats @pacifica! So happy for you. May I add my thanks to all the work you do here, helping to document and shepherd those seeking to get to freedom.
*GREAT NEWS pacifica! I bet it feels like being a new born child, without the US chains attached 🙂 I wish you all the best!
*I am very happy for you, Pacifica. What a relief it must be to be able to breathe normally again!
@Pacifica
What a glorious day for you. I am going to have a glass of red wine with my dinner tonight and I plan on toasting you and your CLN.
Thanks for all your input to IBS and all the personal help you have given to me. The fact that you have now received your CLN, gives me the ‘up’ I need to start thinking positive again that I, too, will soon get my 2nd appt and my CLN.
Thank you so much,Calgary , Em, Badger, Uncle Tell, Schubert, Banany and Tiger.
Schubert, we may have freezing rain inOttawa tonight, but I am walking on sunshine!
As Schubert knows, I was Brock’sOttawa crash test dummy, almost a year ago. Not intentionally. I thought it would be a routine administrative procedure like everywhere. It wasn’t. I didn’t know if they just loved me so much they didn’t want to let me go, or they truly believed I was pulling a tax dodge when I relinquished my US citizenship whilst working for minimum wage in the 1970s.
I don’t want to go into details here and now — but it’s because of what I learned from my fellow Brockers that I knew something was wrong, very wrong, with the procedure.
Prior to my visit, I had been collecting whatever I could find at Brock and elsewhere on the internet about people’s consulate visits just so I could prepare properly. But because of this research, that’s why I knew something was very wrong. My unfortunate experience made me realise the importance of this knowledge, not only so people
can prepare properly, but also so people can tell if something is way out of bounds. So I started Brock’s Consulate Report Directory.
I ended up applying for my CLN atToronto , which felt just like the US of the 1970s, it was a routine administrative procedure, very pleasant. (BTW, we had to rent a car to get there because our 13 year old beater can’t make it to Toronto , which rather puts a hole in the tax dodger theory.)
Actually I think I’ll have a big smile. To the victors belong the smiles!
*@Pacifica
Add my congratulations and thanks to the list! I will also have a glass of wine to toast your CLN tonight, and then another to toast all those CLN’s that have trickled in over the last few months.
Every one is a ray of hope to the rest of us.
A general inquiry from another anxious Canadian.
Have been following the very useful info on this site. Thank you all for generous sharing of special insight. It makes me feel less isolated, because I keep information about my American origin close to myself these days, what with all that is going on!
Here is my situation and a question: I moved to Canada as young adult around 1978 after marrying a Canadian and was quickly accepted as a landed immigrant. For years the only ID carried was a Canadian drivers license and a flimsy landed immigration form. (those were the days!!) When I needed to travel to Europe I got my first and only US passport (mid 1980’s).
By early 1990’s, I had only lived in Canada all my adult life, and was settling down to begin a family, I wanted to confirm my allegiance. A Canadian border guard had questioned me on returning to Canada from a holiday with a US passport and only a flimsy typed immigration for to show that I was Canadian. I realized I wanted to truly and only be Canadian, so applied for Canadian citizenship, swore the oath in 1992 and became a proud Canadian. I had heard that I would lose my American citizenship over this, so quickly got a Canadian passport. No issue with that it had been my intent to solely be Canadian, as I had no contact anymore with America except for occasional vacation visits. I never renewed my US passport, voted, worked or lived there since becoming a Canadian.
I have traveled everywhere, including the US on a Canadian passport for 20 years now. I’ve had a few US border guards comment on my American place of birth, but no real delays or troubles, and my Canadian passport has several US visit stamps.
To avoid ANY ambiguity about my being a Canadian, I am considering formally informing the US consulate of my relinquishing act. I documented and notarized a document confirming my intent to relinquish upon taking the Canadian oath and the various proofs of my living only as a Canadian since.
OK here is the question. I notice that many of the relinquishment stories here involve people who became Canadian in the 1970 or 1980’s. Any info or advice for someone who became Canadian in the early 1990s?
Thanks!
*Yes, Pacifica777, congratulations! You are now a member of a very EXclusive club, in which I, too, hope to receive my membership certificate any month now. And, as others have said, thanks for your work here at Brock. Cheers.
Also, I see there are now just 2 appointments left at the Toronto Consulate for December and none announced yet for January. It seems they’re making it harder to join the club.
Undecided Canadian, I relinquished US citizenship when I became a Canadian citizen in the late 1970s. I don’t think much changed between then and 1994 — see other information on this site for more about that. Anyway, it sounds like you have a good case for a backdated CLN. It would probably be a good idea to apply for it soon, since it could take a while to get an appointment and then months to get the certificate itself.
Hi Undecided,
Based on what you’ve written, it sounds like you relinquished yourUS citizenship in 1992.
Prior to, I think it was 1986 (I’d have to check the exact year), the State Dept had an administrative presumption that when aUS citizen acquired another citizenship they intended to terminate their US citizenship.
After that date, due to Supreme Court decisions, they changed the administrative presumption to that when aUS citizen acquired another citizenship they intended to keep their US citizenship.
In both eras it was, and remains, a rebuttable presumption. If your behaviour illustrates your intention to relinquish, it doesn’t matter if you are pre or post 1986. It sounds like your post-relinquishment behaviour was completely consistent with being a citizen of onlyCanada and rebuts the presumptionthat a person intends to keep US citizenship.