The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
@broken man on Halifax pier,
Yes, one most important thing we must remember is never to say anything about taxes at the renunciation / relinquishment appointment. My renunciation will be because I am a Canadian — I have lived my life in Canada for over 40 years. An extraneous US citizenship for me and so many of us makes no sense — I thought I had shed that US citizenship 37 years ago when I became a Canadian citizen.
*thnx calgary411 and pacifica 777 for your help n booking app with us consulate in calgary, i went to notarial services and booked it . It asked passport num and citizenship and i put canadian for both, would this be right or it should have been the US passport num
@charlie488
I don’t know — did “notarial services” indicate renunciation or relinquishment? Do they know what you are booking for?
I did all of my communication with the Calgary Consulate for booking my and my husband’s appointments by email: Calgary-ACS@state.gov. You might give that a try if your appointment booked under “notarial services” doesn’t work.
Are you booking for a relinquishment and thus are telling them you are only Canadian? If all you consider yourself is Canadian and the only passport you have is Canadian, then OK for the info you have given.
Or, are you a Canadian / US dual citizen, born in the US, or Accidental American dual? In that case, they would likely want to know that you are US or Canadian/US dual. Do you have a US passport? If you do, I would say the US one is the passport number to use. They, of course, will want to know that you have Canadian citizenship and you will have to prove that before renouncing, so your Canadian passport / your Canadian birth certificate or citizenship certificate will be required at your appointment. If you have given an email address or phone number, someone from the Calgary US Consulate will likely get back to you with what they require.
Let us know how you are proceeding and if we can enter your statistics for the Renounce & Relinquish database: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/ and the Consulate Directory Report: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/24/consulate-visit-report-directory/. You might review both of these links to give you a feel of what others have experienced for their renunciatons or relinquishments in preparing for yours — there will be a section on Calgary in the Consulate Visit Report Directory.
I just looked back at your first question and see that you say you have Canadian citizenship thru naturalization since you were born in Central America, that you then applied for US citizenship in 2006 and received it 2007, as well as lived in the US for about 6 years and filed and paid taxes there (before becoming a US citizen?), then moved back to Canada in 2006 and have not filed US taxes since then. It sounds like you had Canadian citizenship first, so you cannot relinquish your US citizenship to take Canadian citizenship. It appears you will have to renounce instead of relinquish, and after that is done (but having nothing to do with your actual renunciation — and you don’t want to give taxation as the reason you are renouncing US citizenship), you will be asked to complete IRS Form 8854 to certify that you have complied with all US income tax requirements. Are you aware of what the requirements will be for you and how you will comply, etc.? If not, you need to do a lot of research by reading here, ask questions, and determine if you will need some legal tax advice for your situation.
*i went to that email address and requested appt to renounce US citizenship and told me i had to go to notarial services, and make an appointment, i became US citizen by naturalization , they said that site is reserved for inquiries of a more complex nature. thnx will see whagt happens
Good luck, charlie488. Let us know how the process is going for you.
Hi,
I have a question for everybody who renounced their citizenship. My daughter has an interview in about 10 days and the lawyer we consulted says that she needs to have both her US birth certificate and her European citizenship certificate. Since she has two valid passports for both countries, I found that somehow superfluous. Especially as the requested documents are in a different country and not very easy to get at.
Is this standard procedure?
@Feuerbrand:
If you don’t have the documents they want, it will simply delay the process until you do give them the documents they want. It’s a pain in the butt, but the more documentation you have the better. My wife showed up with her Canadian Citizenship certificate only to be told she also needed to bring the little plastic card. She presented that at the 2nd interview. If your daughter is married, they want the marriage certificate too.
And yes, it’s standard procedure — although each consulate/embassy seems to make up its own standard procedure in some of these things. Bury them in paper.
Good luck*
Thanks Arrow. I’ll reluctantly arrange to have those Fedexed. I’m sure you’re right. I was just hoping to hear a resounding ‘no’. But then this whole ordeal is senseless from start to finish.
Another odd thing is that they only want form DS-4079 if you are relinquishing, not if you are renouncing. This makes no sense as DS-4079 is the backbone of the whole interview. We are filling it out anyway in case someone clueless at the embassy gave that advice.
This is the embassy in Dublin. By the way, the London embassy, similar to the Copenhagen one that someone else mentioned, is no longer accepting non-resident appointments. Presumably due to backlog.
Feuerbrand: All I needed was my US passport and proof that I would be granted Danish citizenship after renunciation (I renounced in Copenhagen). I haven’t heard about anyone needing a birth certificate.
@rødgrød : That was my understanding as well. No need for a birth certificate as a US passport would not have been issued if a birth certificate hadn’t been presented at some point. And similarly a second passport would not have been issued without all the hoops and a naturalization certificate etc. The Lawyer we consulted has primarily dealt with UK renunciations and has stated that a certificate of naturalization over and above a valid and current second passport is definitely needed at the London Embassy, and the birth certificate is a ‘might be needed’.
As my daughter has an interview in Dublin, I will report back if the above holds true for Ireland as well, and whether the message from the Irish Embassy that a DS-4079 is NOT needed also holds true, and what in its stead they plan to use to get the information they need. But as Arrow suggested, it’s probably safest to lug every scrap of paper one can think of.
@Feuerbrand, Thanks for keeping us posted! Document requirements do seem to vary oddly between consulates, some of them do sound pretty redundant. Re the 4079, FWIW, the DOS procedure manual at page 7 says
It seems that the consulates here in Canada all ask for it routinely, but once again there does seem to be a fair bit of variety regarding documents from consulate to consulate around the world.
Thanks Pacifica for that information and the excellent link. After reading it, I am presuming that in lieu of DS-4079, they will be conducting a more extensive verbal interview. If that is the case, the procedure manual is very helpful in knowing what to expect from such an interview.
Request: 12.10.2012
1st Appt: 16.10.2012 (filled a cancellation)
@Feuerbrand, the embassy in Stockholm has also said that they require form DS-4079 for relinquishment cases only, not for renunication. This came as a pleasant surprise, pleasant in that I find this form particularly strange and nearly impossible to fill out.
*Good to see that some are able to relinquish. BUT….what does that do for the IRS problems? If you do get the CLN predated to 1975, do you have to inform the IRS? And what about FACTA then? What to do then if your bank asks you for documentation or they will close your account?
And less seriously (perhaps), it would be amusing: If bank closes your account you are left with a closet full of cash. And then when CRA asks for your tax remittance you tell em to come to your place and bring a wheelbarrow lolo.
@Woofy, please take a look at this post: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/06/19/if-your-expatriation-date-is-before-2004-the-rules-are-different/
As far as I’m concerned, I don’t see how the IRS can make you do something if the State Department says that you weren’t even a citizen for many years.
@Woofy,
No one knows for sure. But, doesn’t it make sense to you as it does to most of us here, if you have a Certificate of Loss of Nationality backdated to 1975, it states that you have not been a US citizen since that 1975 date and would have no tax return, FBAR obligations from that 1975 date. You have not had to pay the $450 “renunciation fee” to the Department of State / US Consulate or Embassy for your relinquishment. It does, though, have to be approved in Washington, DC.
When your receive your CLN, it will be the most important document you hold — and it will tell your bank you ARE NOT a US Citizen. End of story — at least that’s the way I see it.
*All would be good, but the assumption is that the application gets approved AND pre-dated in Washington. But what if it doesn’t? Does anyone have experience or data as to the approval rate? And why were the disapprovals made? And any that were approved but not pre-dated?
We have had 10 people report here to this site that they have successfully received their Certificates of Loss of Nationality — they had advised of their reqlinquishment as of a specified date and received CLNs accordingly. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/
We don’t, of course, have any actual Department of State data on numbers of renunciations, relinquishments or disapprovals. We are right now waiting for information on the latest quarterly numbers for the Name and Shame list (again overdue) — and we certainly question that all is reported there.
*This looks very promising – might solve all the potential FACTA / FOCA / IRS problems. I am serioulsy thinking about it now. It’s a 2400 km round trip drive to the consulate so probably save it for next spring.
Thanks for the information folks – I really appreciate it!
@Woofy,
Stick around and read as much as you can here and join us in discussion. Refer others you know in the same situation to explore the wealth of information gathered here. And, if you think you are one who can relinquish, don’t do anything to mess that up — like voting, like getting a US passport, like filing back tax returns, etc.!
We wish you well. We’d value any information on your experience to help others, when and if you go ahead.
*We never did anything like paying taxes (I sent a letter with my last return in 1974 saying I was a Canadian now, no longer a US citizen, and would no longer be filing tax returns). Don’t own any property in the US. Never had a US passport, although the border guys looked at our Canadian passports and said we should get US passports last time we crossed over 3 years ago. Never did. BUT, we did vote, once, 8 years ago. The form asks if we DO vote and I would say no (but we DID vote once). Would this disqualify the application for relinquishment? Would they check that that far back?
@ Woofy — This could be different for every state but my guess is IF you haven’t automatically received a ballot for every election since that time you voted 8 years ago then you are no longer on a voter list and are probably good to go for a relinquishment. I really doubt they would check back that far.
@Woofy. I agree that you would be answering correctly by saying No to the question on Form 4079. You do have to be clear, though, on how you would answer the question, if asked at your appointment,’have you voted in a US election since the date you are claiming relinquishment?’
I only say this as I am one who made the mistake of voting (once since 1975!), but in addition to others — filing back tax returns and getting my first US passport as I was told that the next time I crossed, it was to be with a US passport. I had been warned that I was relinquishing my US citizenship when I became a Canadian citizen in 1975. I will now be renouncing as I lost my opportunity to relinquish. I don’t want anyone to make the same mistakes I did.
Woofy – You voted 8 years ago. If you were not a US person then, maybe you committed a criminal act? Now you want to have it both ways and consider yourself severed since 1974. Only the US government gets to have it both ways, because you are nothing. Nothing but a minnow created to feed leviathan. Go ahead. Do that funny little personal interpretation thing on the voting question to save yourself the $450. Make Uncle Sam’s day. Leave yourself perpetually open to blowback on that deliberate misrepresentation (already admitted to here by Woofy). Arf arf airooo! Is it worth that? The US is building a data Babel and it will be set up to “watch” you forevermore. Babylon (same word as Babel) may program in a trigger to pursue you whenever the voter data gets integrated. Now, you wanna come CLeaN or not?