The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
@Stickman –
I’d be curious to know what the State Department would do with a relinquishment from someone who got a US passport b/c they were told they’d be breaking the law if they didn’t, and has since let it expire and crosses on a Canadian passport anyway. They’re supposed to make a judgement based on the balance of probabilities.
@Pacifica and Schubert
Thank you both for your advice and words of encouragement. I am not getting much sleep these past few nights but know that in a bit more than 24 hours, the first appointment should be ‘in progress’. Given the opportunity, I might push back a bit regarding the 2nd appointment and will try to even mention that I ‘know’ of others applying in different consulates who only needed to attend one appointment. How much I will be able to say will have to be determined on the spot. I will report on the meeting once finished.
@Dawid
I was sorry to read that the Vancouver consulate is making you wait so long for your 2nd appointment. You say they ‘seem concerned about your roots’. Were you naturalized in Canada but born in the U.S? If so, why should they have any concern?
My hope is that I have all the documents that I need and if I need a 2nd appointment, I hope it can be made while I am attending the 1st appointment.
Preponderance of evidence is a joke. The idol of justice has traded in her scales for a lash, and gone over to the dark side of sadism. You’ve held a US passport? No hope for you. Attempts to comply with “the law” are no excuse. Any unreasonable cause is cause enough for you to fork over $450. Now taking bets on how long the fee to be free remains that low.
@usxcanada – Is there a test case you’re aware of?
Hi Tiger,
Sounds like you have everything lined up in your file. I think the fact that you have a copy of your oath from decades ago, which starts with renouncing your former citizenship, adds force to your post-relinquishment conduct. Clearly you did not just happen to stop “being American” casually — way back then you knew exactly what you were doing, made a formal statement, took it seriously, and lived by it the rest of your life.
I’ll be onPender Street in spirit tomorrow along with a bunch of us, our best wishes and support converging over the kilometres.
*@Tiger, Good Luck tomorrow..Everything will go great!!
best wishes tiger; “stay calm and carry on”.
*best wishes tiger
Hi, tiger.
Add me to the people you will be taking along in spirit to your appointment with the Vancouver US Consulate tomorrow. I wish you a good sleep tonight and strength tomorrow. I see you as able to relinquish as others have been able. Go in with conviction and courage.
@Pacifica,calgary,tim, saddened,badger,schubert and anyone else I might have forgotten
I hope you all know how much I appreciate the great advice and the good wishes from all of you. I know my fellow “Brockers” understand and ‘walk in the same shoes’. You give me courage. Thank you.
@All
On a ‘lighter side’, things are not without their humour. I was organizing my papers and remembered that someone had posted on the “Consulate Report Directory” that they had brought their papers and documents in a plastic bag. I grabbed a bag that I thought was the right size, put the documents into it and put it near my front door so I wouldn’t forget it in the morning. As I put it down, I read the outside of the bag. It was a bag from a very well known Vancouver store that carries Dried Fruits and Nuts. I noticed the name of the store is Iranian – being more than a tad paranoid these days, I quickly concluded it was probably not a good idea to take that particular bag to the U.S.Consulate. I’ll be using a Hudson Bay bag!
@tiger. I had to order a civil birth certificate from the States since all I had was the hospital certificate. They waited two months to let me know the certificate I had was not sufficient. Then they’ve been asking questions about where I lived 50 years ago. They finally offered me a second appointment but I’ve been waiting for a couple of weeks just to get that scheduled.
With regards to my roots, its kind of X-File’ish. My father was an American guinea pig who supposedly died as a result. I’ve just been wondering if someone has an interest in the matter….Probably watched too much tv.
I’m sure your life is lot simpler and I’m sure you’ll do just fine at the consulate. Do leave things like car key fobs at home. That was particularly tough for me since my vehicle doesn’t have a key, just a fob. Everything at the consulate does go pretty smoothly and the people are nice. Best Wishes
Broken Man – Test case? No, the only test case that springs to mind is Afroyim v Rusk. A test case some wish had never occurred. As periodically gets pointed out, few guinea pigs are eager to run a maze in the legal laboratory. One result: IRS gleefully mauls anything that moves, including that poor Edmontonian who just woke the sleeping bear. I’d be astonished if any US passport holder ever succeeded in relinquishing, unless a definitive intentional relinquishing act, like acquiring a non-US nationality, occurred distinctly after holding/using a US passport.
*After nearly an 11 month wait, my CLN has finally arrived. I relinquished in Toronto in November 2011 (see #4 in your Toronto chart). Approved mid-July, it took over two months to reach me. The Toronto consulate is currently saying that the normal wait time is 6-8 months. This is down from the 10-12 months that they were saying in July, and up from the 4-6 months they were saying in August.
Delighted to hear, Cornwall … you have been waiting a long time! So, it’s especially great to hear it’s finally arrived!
I have a question, since I’m also awaiting from Toronto. Could you let us know when it was postmarked? I was wondering if it was caught up in the mail a long time or caught up in post-approval processing/handling.
You’ve probably noticed that, starting in June, it appears that DC has been approving the massive backlog of Canadian CLN applications in batches by consulate. I think DC approved a large batch of Torontos in July, so TO’s dealing with an abnormally heavy volume of CLNs to process and send out.
I thought, since no one’s reported receiving one in almost 3 weeks, that the current “Toronto batch” was finished… but your receipt gives me hope that that batch isn’t over yet.
*I picked up my CLN or it would have been longer. They phoned me the day after they told me that my application hadn’t been approved yet and that they would contact me when it was, implying that I should quit sending them follow-up emails. Coincidence? Maybe.
@Cornwall: I doubt it. I sent an email and they said, Oh guess what, your CLN was just approved. Now what are the chances that happened to both of us?
@ Cornwall. Thanks for this info — and thanks for reporting on your consulate visit, the receipt of your CLN, and in the months in between when you relayed info you received from the consulate regarding projected time to receipt of CLN.
You pointed out today the wait times they were predicting in July (10-12 months), August (4-6 months) and September (6-8 months). So, it’s hard to know for sure what to expect. One thing we know is that there was a Toronto batch approved in DC in July covering from Fall 2011 through Spring 2012, which yours evidently was part of. Hopefully that means DC is catching up. (Also hopefully mine’s in the July batch)
I’m glad to hear yours is finally in your hands!
11 month wait over. Glad you were able to get in there to pick it up! Congratulations, Cornwall. Thanks for the info.
Can you confirm that the actual date of your CLN is 2011.11.
Congratulations, Cornwall!
So … your relinquishment is from an appointment last November, and you just got your CLN. My wife’s relinquishment appointment was about five months after yours, and she got her CLN about a month ago. Both relinquishment appointments in Toronto. And there are still people waiting from November-December …
My only conclusion from this would be that my cat Schubert (whose name I’ve appropriated for posting purposes) could probably organize the DC approval process more systematically and rationally than they can. (Schubert’s approach to paperwork is to hop up on the desk and push all the papers randomly onto the floor, after which someone picks them up and tries to re-arrange them in the correct order. Maybe Mr. Betancourt has taken to employing tabby cats to do his paperwork … See also Catbert in the Dilbert cartoon strip. I do detect some familiar patterns here …)
And yet they can put a robot rover on Mars. Remarkable.
*I applied for my CLN in 2011/11 but it is effective back to when I became a Canadian citizen in the late 1980s. Approval was granted in July 2012. I got the impression that there is only one new fellow handling the CLNs in Toronto and that he has other responsibilities to cope with as well.
Thanks, Cornwall. Of course, yours was a relinquishment. Entered. Thanks so much!
*Could anyone please tell me if a Consul warned that they could not visit the States after renunciation if determined for tax purposes? I mean, if opposition to FATCA and a few years of non-compliance are considered “renouncing for tax purposes”, did you have to pay fines or could you “just” do with the exit tax ? Tx!
As I see it,
This would not be within authority of a Consul within a US Consulate, which is part of the Department of State, to determine or even comment on. That determination is to be made by the IRS / Department of Treasury when a person has completed what is supposed to be part of their obligations for renunciation, by filing Form 8854 and stating that one has fulfilled all of their US tax (and reporting / FBAR?) obligations.
The Reed Amendment, under which ‘renouncing for tax purposes’ would bar entry into the US has not been used, but it remains a threat upon our heads. And, of course, we now see Congressmen introducing even more punitive legislation as the Ex-Patriot Act. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specified_expatriate.
What they said to me at the first interview (the deputy consul looked grave at this point and seemed to expect me to be shocked) was that after expatriation I would have no *right* to enter the United States. This is strictly true, but since I don’t have a police record I’m not all that worried about it.
Still, it does bear out the received wisdom that it’s unwise to mention anything about taxes when renouncing. It’s *possible* that there’s a note on the files of people who mentioned taxes, which could make its way into a database at some future point.