The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments.Β Thank you.
@aaa – Toronto still has slots available in the second week of October. That, plus the consulate is ten minutes’ walk away from lots of excellent Chinese food. Come on down!
@aaa – That’s where I expatriated, Toronto. As well as the excellent Chinese food nearby, which I too can vouch for, I found the consulate staff very pleasant, cordial and professional to deal with. I actually left the consulate feeling good about the United States …and after the hassles we US-born people have been dealing with lately, that’s pretty impressive!
Actually, there’s also the restaurant strip on Baldwin St., not far from the consulate, which has its roots in a colony of American draft-dodgers who fixed up a lot of buildings in the neighbourhood and started businesses in the Vietnam era.
@Lisa,
Thanks for the update and all of your contributons here!
@ aaa,
I forgot to thank you in my comment early this morning. Thanks very much! People are finding it very useful to know how thing go and what to expect at the consulates.
You mentioned that Ottawa set your second appointment for August 2013. Did they say how long the meeting would take?
*Hi all, I just want to make sure about the forms that is needed to be filled out for Renouncing. Are they DS-4079, DS-4080, DS-4081, DS-4083.
Also is a Passport needed? my son only has a Certificate of Birth Abroad and SSN
He has filed his 5 years of returns. Any help on this will be appreciated. I am still waiting for my Citizenship and after that I will be renouncing ASAP..can’t wait..
Hi Saddened,
Yep, those are the forms. Best to fill 4079 out ahead of time, it having so many questions. The 4081, it doesn’t seem to matter if it’s filled out ahead of time or on the spot. The consulate fills out the 4083. I didn’t have a 4080 (I relinquished).
You don’t need a passport. He’ll need proof of US citizenship, of course, but not everyone has a passport. I never had a US passport — no problem.
@aaa
That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard yet – waiting a year. Toronto has appts available for Oct 9 (10 spots), Oct 11 (12 spots), and Oct 16 ( 2 spots). They only put up one month at a time, so November isn’t available yet for booking.
FWIW, my first appt was Nov 30 2011. I booked my second appt for a week later, Dec.6. They do want you to have some time to consider but at least in TO, it can be as short as a week. The entire staff in TO is excellent – they respond promptly to emails, are compassionate, respectful and understanding.
@saddened123
Those are exactly the forms you need. If you son doesn’t have a passport, he can’t produce it. The Certificate should do it. They will also ask for a Canadian passport. If he doesn’t have one, something that proves he has Canadian citizenship. Birth certificate best option.
Have you already taken the test for citizenship? I have a friend who applied in June 2011 and is still waiting just to take the test.
*Hi Nobledreamer, No I do not have to take the test I am over the required age, my application is in the processing stage now, it stayed in the received stage for almost 10 months. I can’t wait, I will be so proud to become a Canadian.
I am so happy for you, Congratulations again!! You must be so happy.
@aaa They want 13 months for a renunciation??? What in God’s name do all the people
who must be filling space in that huge bunker do to earn their livings? That is
utterly ridiculous. Has ANY other embassy or consulate on the planet given
delays like that, to our knowledge? This is blatant obstructionism, nothing
else, pure and simple.
Stories like this (and this isn’t the first I’ve heard) are why my wife went to Toronto, though we live in Ottawa, and why I keep recommending that people who live in or near Ottawa to go to Toronto or Montreal, NOT to the embassy (sorry you missed my posts on this point elsewhere, I’ve agreed with Pacifica for her to copy one of my posts about this more prominently on the Ottawa report page). My wife’s relinquishment appointment was two weeks after she made it on the Toronto website, and she got her CLN 4.5 months after the interview. As almost everyone, she was nervous when she went into the Toronto consulate. She was beaming with joy when she met me right afterwards at the Timmy’s up the street. She said the clerk and the vice-consul couldn’t have been nicer. She said the vice-consul reminded her of her favourite nephew, in his demeanour and interactions with her.
A relinquishment doesn’t require a second appointment, because there’s nothing to reflect on — the applicant did commit an expatriating act willingly and with intent to lose US citizenship, that’s what the relinquishment oath is all about. But there’s a lot more checking that arguably should be done and presumably is being done with relinquishment 4079s than renunciations, because a renunciation doesn’t hinge on your behaviour for the past X years. For that reason, a renunciation should take LESS time to process than a relinquishment, not more!
You have a right to renounce (that’s actually mentioned now in the US Code section) and the only real discretion State has in denying that right is if they have reason to believe you are under coercion, haven’t had the implications spelled out (that’s done very clearly on form 4081 which you have to sign), or they think/know you’re under 18 years of age.
Expecting anyone to wait 11 months between interviews to “think about” renunciation implications is absurd; no one (unless they’re drunk) is going to wander into a US embassy and declare they want to renounce their citizenship if they haven’t already thought long and hard about doing so, probably with very mixed feelings if they’ve kept dual citizenship for years.
This is simple bullying. And so far it seems to be unique to that embassy, which does not IMO reflect favourably on Ambassador Johnson nor on any of his staff. Nor does it reflect well on the United States of America, which the people in that bunker are supposed to represent in Canada. Their colleagues in the consulates other than Ottawa are doing a far better job of that, by all reports we’ve received.
@Saddened: You may find this board useful – http://www.immigration.ca/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=3&title=canadian-citizenship
@Schubert
I agree that relinquishment should only require one appointment. I know in my case, the expatriating act took place 40+ years ago so as you say – what is there to reflect on. And yet, the Vancouver consulate requires 2 appointments and certainly in the case of Arrow’s wife, those appointments were 5 months apart.
This to me indicates there is no standard of procedure in DOS. It also seems to indicate that Vancouver’s consulate is perhaps ineffecient (that could be too kind) or they too are doing it this way to ‘bully’ individuals.
*Broken Man, Thank you very much!! I appreciate it..
@Tiger I agree, the Vancouver consulate isn’t exactly a model either of what I’d want to be representing my country if I were an American. If they’re inefficient, they’re less so than the embassy (which has a lot more staff than the consulate has), otherwise they’re less over-the-top in their bullying than is the embassy. Neither is a wonderful commentary on the consulate, though. Calgary, Toronto, Montreal and Halifax trump them and the embassy on all counts that I’m aware of.
One last parting comment on the embassy in Ottawa. Reports in the last day or two from our friends in Switzerland are that the US Embassy in Bern is only requiring one appointment for a renunciation. That’s to deal with the numbers, and I suspect in recognition and sympathy for the plight of US citizens with homes, jobs and families in Switzerland and who are being treated as pariahs by Swiss banks. So far, and hopefully never, that isn’t happening in Canada, but the difference in respect, sympathy and responsiveness between the US embassies in Bern and Ottawa is rather striking.
Maybe our government should ask Washington for a more humane ambassador and some house-cleaning in the embassy staff.
@ Schubert @3.33 and Tiger, I want to point out for clarity, in fairness to Vancouver, since I track this stuff, that I have not heard any reports of bullying occurring at the the Vancouver consulate. Complaints about scheduling/inefficiency, but no complaints about bullying occurring at Vancouver.
@pacifica777
I am sure you are correct re Vancouver consulate not using the 2 appt procedure to bully. That is my frustration and stress over the whole thing taking my life over. It does get frustrating that there is no ‘across the board’ procedure that all consulates/embassies use for particular events.
I am not sure how small the Vancouver consulate might be. I notice that the Calgary consulate seems to offer many, many more appointments on a daily basis. Possibly it is a much larger consulate, covering a greater area. Because Vancouver offers so few appointments in any given month, it is even more frustrating that they require two appointments to report a relinquishment from decades ago.
I can echo the reports from Switzerland in other EU countries – I contacted several consulates across Western Europe and all of my interactions, be they through e-mail, on the phone or in person at the consulate itself were all very positive. You could tell that they were very much in tune with all of the banking issues going on and there was no bad will or any sense of being judged at the actual renunciation appointment itself.
Should add though that I did have to go to the consulate three times – Once for the “interview”, which consisted of a single question and a one line answer and then returning the next week for the actual renunciation ceremony. I have heard reports of some consulates making you wait three months in between the two appointments, but I only had to wait one week. The third appointment was to pick up the CLN itself. I never felt like this was bullying or making the process drag out and I never even saw another soul in the consulate during each visit, so the entire affair was very private.
@Schubert, re your question about the Ottawa, Canada, consulate.
No. Not even by half.
*Hello!
Just curious if anyone has attempted crossing the border by land or air with a CLN and what kind of questions or comments did they get from it.
I have heard the US border guards have been very gruff lately π
Thanks!
@Kelli. Please go to the affiliated website (Maple Sandbox) to this link, where you will find an extensive thread and comments on this subject.
http://maplesandbox.ca/crossing-the-us-border-on-a-canadian-passport-showing-a-us-birthplace/
I would urge anyone with or without a CLN who is concerned about the issue raised in the link title to bookmark that site, visit it occasionally, and report any first-hand experiences (good or bad) you encounter on this issue.
In a nutshell: so far this isn’t a problem for most people, though there have been sporadic reports of snarky border guards, many of those reports however date well before the past year or so. The best defense against this is a collective sharing of experiences (good, bad, or neutral) to keep things in context, and (if need be, let’s hope not) as a “trip wire” to alert us to significant and systematic changes in the situation, if they occur. So I do urge people like you to monitor that thread if you are concerned (and I’m not saying that only because I’m the one who started the thread, which I am — because I am aware there are concerns about this, as well as rumours and sometimes misinformation taken out of context).
Please, anyone reporting bad experiences related to this, limit your reporting to personal experiences or those given to you first-hand by people you know. We can’t rely on “I heard from someone who read somewhere” or “I heard from someone who knows some who heard …” stories.
BTW for technical reasons (having to do with my unfortunate first title for that post) link wording is misleading — the post is about people with non-US passports of whatever nationality, it is not intended to be limited just to those with Canadian passports. We want to hear from anyone entering the US on a non-US passport showing a US birthplace, with or without a CLN, especially if they’ve experienced problems. Please report on the Maple Sandbox thread and not on this IBS thread, it will be much easier for everyone if we can collect experiences on this issue in a single place.
*schubert1975
Thanks so much, I will go check out that link! π
I just contacted the US consulate in Halifax by email today requesting information on what forms and documents I would need to obtain a CLN ( although I already know). I quickly received what appears to be an automated reply which provides information and links to a number of Consular services, but did not answer my email.
Is this a standard response? Can I expect to receive an actual reply to my email from a real person?
@Clint,
There seems to be no standard procedure. For the moment and speaking for myself, I have received the following from the Calgary Consulate, with attachments of Renunciation Advice About Possible Loss of Nationality, Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship by Persons Claiming a Right of Residence in the U.S., Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual Nationality and Renunciation Questionnaire.
Sorry, the above was my first appointment, which I cancelled. I now have a November 2012 appointment and this is the most recent response to that:
Dear (calgary411):
Your appointment is confirmed for XXXXXXXX.
Please complete the attached questionnaire and e-mail, or fax it to 403-263-2241, prior to your appointment.
You should bring the following items to your appointment:
– Evidence of your United States Citizenship. This must be presented at the time of your interview.
– Any U.S. passports (valid or expired),
– If applicable, your Consular Report of Birth Abroad, Certificate of Citizenship/Naturalization.
– You should also provide evidence of your Canadian citizenship to show that you will not become stateless by renouncing your citizenship.
– Due to a recent policy change made by the Department of State, the $450 fee for Renunciation of citizenship is now required at the time of your interview. We can accept US/CDN cash, credit card or U.S. dollar money order, payable to the U.S. Consulate, Calgary. We do not accept checks or debit cards.
– As an option, you may also wish to provide a written statement regarding your reason for renouncing your citizenship.
Please visit our website to review security information before visiting our office.
http://canada.usembassy.gov/consulates/security.html
In reviewing the Consulate Directory at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/24/consulate-visit-report-directory/, you may get different answers. I’ll can have a look later today.
Can we start an entry on your Halifax experience (starting with your first contact and ending with the date of your Certificate of Loss of Nationality) at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/?
Good luck in your journey to getting your CLN.