The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
If all Canadian renunciations / relinquishments are being directed to and processed in one Washington, D.C. office (as I think I read), shouldn’t each Canadian Consulate be receiving, on a similar basis to the other Consulates, CLN’s from Washington to further issue? Would those two Consulates be holding applications back and then sending a big package to Washington or holding them up when they receive CLN’s back to issue to those involved when someone has time to complete the send-out process? Where is the log jam?
@Calgary, I also understand that Canadian CLNs are being processed in one office, and from what I’ve read, I’m pretty sure that’s where the delay is.
Also from my personal experience, I recall speaking with the Consul atToronto in May. When she said I might get my CLN in as soon as 2 to 3 months, I expressed surprise, very pleasant surprise, and a bit of puzzlement, mentioning the time discrepancy between Canada and the rest of the world. She said that Washington was aware of the Canadian backlog and working to catch up on it. This was in early May. Then the Calgary CLNs suddenly appeared in late June. Then Halifax . Now Montréal. Maybe they are handling the Canadian backlog alphabetically by city?
I have the impression that the CLN applications are sent toWashington within a week. I think I was told this at the consulate, but I’m not 100% sure and I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth. It seems very plausible to me. Although Toronto CLNs are way behind schedule — we have Brockers waiting since October! — the impression I got from Toronto Consulate personnel is that they are doing their job, they seem to be efficient and organised, with good customer service. Based on that, I don’t think they would be the source of this delay.
That’s a possibility they just got swamped with a mailbag/s up from Washington full of CLNs to send out. But then again, I was looking at the list of US consular personnel in Canada, and Toronto has a pretty big staff compared to most, so they should be able to handle volume. I’m guessing they haven’t gotten them yet, but I don’t know.
If people have been waiting a long time, from any consulate, I think it would be a good idea to make a phone call.
*Are there any experiences or reports of CLN processing times in Ottawa?
@Virg,
From the Consulate Directory Report (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/24/consulate-visit-report-directory/)
Consulate Report for
Canada, Ottawa
(As reported to the Isaac Brock Society – Liberty and Justice for all US Persons Abroad)
We have not yet received a report for the directory about this consulate, although we have
received some information about it from several sources.
Expatriation procedure at Ottawa appears to be rather different and definitely lengthier
than at the other consulates for which we have information.
Length of time between first and second appointments is apparently 6 months, over twice
that of most other consulates for which we have information, and the meetings
themselves are apparently considerably lengthier than any other consulate for which we
have information.
So, no, we don’t have anything regarding processing times for CLN’s for Ottawa? Have you started your process there?
@Virg. I live in Ottawa. Three people I know in Ottawa went to Toronto, after some real horror stories we’ve heard about some serious attitude problems some consular staff in the embassy have here, which so far haven’t shown up in any of the consulates. Unless you’re really strapped for time or money, go to Toronto. DON’T go to the embassy here in town. Maybe they’ve cleaned up their act, maybe not, but my info is that even consular officers in other consulates in Canada have been disturbed by some of the crap that has gone on, as have a few lawyers both here in town and even in the States. Life is too short to waste it interacting with pompous, nasty bullies. There are a few of those types lurking in that hideous bunker on Sussex Drive.
You have every right to go to Toronto or Montreal for that matter; there is no requirement for you to go to the consulate or embassy nearest you. I’ve seen written confirmation of this from the DOS office in Washington that approves CLNs; people I know personally have also been told this by consular officers in the consulates and even (relunctantly) by one of the bozos in the embassy over the telephone.
I don’t know anyone who has tried to get a CLN at the embassy after the bad-experience stories began circulating. That doesn’t mean no one has, but any time I hear of someone thnking of going to the embassy, I always steer them to Toronto or Montreal.
@ Calgary411: Just to update the record for renunciations, I reported earlier that I renounced my nationality on January 6, 2012 in Marseille, France. I have been waiting since then for the Certificate of Loss of Nationality, which arrived today. The approval date is June 19, 2012 (over six months after the act of renunciation). It then took an additional 2-1/2 months for it to wend its way to me. It is actually a disappointingly nondescript, rather fuzzy black and white document, which appears to be a photocopy. Its only distinguishing characteristic is the embossed seal. I understand that others have been storing their CLNs in safe deposit boxes. Personally, lacking any significant income, I have never had the opportunity to load up on gold bullion, diamonds and other assorted jewels; consequently, the only thing I have to put in a safety deposit box is my CLN. I am going to have to consider whether the document’s safekeeping is going to be worth the expense.*
@kcnileg,
Thanks for your update and the timeline of your CLN arrival. Congratulations on finally receiving your Certificate of Loss of Nationality — and your description of same! Each experience description will help others starting their path to relinquishment or renunciation.
I hope you have a relatively safe storage place for your original CLN with seal and make photocopies for keeping with your French passport and, if you wish, framing and hanging on your wall. (Yes, the choice to store our CLNs a safety deposit box is yet another added expense.)
All the best to you, going forward, kcnileg!
*This is an update to my earlier correspondence of several months ago:
1) US Consulate, Vancouver, never answered two somewhat desperate-sounding emails from me concerning crossing into US without a valid US passport on July 20. One Issac Brockian had kindly advised that I would probably have no problem traveling only on my Canadian passport and s/he was right. Hearing that helped and I thank you: it worked easily, with no border fuss being made about my US birthplace. But then I am old, not bulging and don’t look like I could run very far.
2) Eleven weeks after my first consular interview, I received an email notice stating that I have been reviewed and may now “request” an appointment for my “final” interview. I did so within 1.5 minutes and now, five days later, am awaiting further notification. The American Citizens Service Unit signs with “Regards” and still uses “please,” but has done away with greetings of “Dear….”. Considering what’s going on in some quarters, I find it endearing.
kcnileg,
Can you confirm that the date of your CLN is the same as your renunciation date for that column on the Relinquish & Renounce database (different than your approval date?)?
Thanks very much.
calgary411,
The CLN indicates that the date of renunciation was January 6, 2012. The approval date of June 19, 2012 was in a little callout box for “DEPARTMENT OF STATE USE ONLY” in the upper right hand corner, and I only mentioned it to give a time reference for the various stages of the procedure.
Fortunately, I didn’t throw away any of the documents I signed on January 6th in a fit of pique since according to the CLN, the “Oath/Affirmation of Renunciation of Nationality…” that I signed on January 6th must be appended to and is an integral part of the CLN. I only realized upon examining it today that it, too, has an embossed seal. I guess I need to photocopy and wad the whole shebang into my Belgian passport when I travel to the States.
I have kept my head down, taking one step at a time. I still have quite a ways to go before I will feel confident that I have extricated myself completely from this state of servitude to the U.S. I am pretty sure I will be back looking for help once tax time comes around.*
@kcnileg,
Thanks for the additional info — and your photocopying and putting into your BELGIAN passport is a good idea. Just don’t lose that original documentation, with the result of having to go back to the US to get duplicates. Please stay part of the conversation going on here. Your contributions have helped others and will continue to help newcomers to this horror. I hope one day we’ll all have some of our orginal confidence returned / feeling we are in control of our lives. Once again, congratulations on getting as far as you have, one step at a time!
@Cir
Thanks for the update on the Vancouver consulate.
I am happy your border crossing experience was uneventful and I loved your comment ‘But then I am old,……, and don’t look like I could run very far’. I, too, am old and could not run very far!
You mentioned that you have finally (after 11 weeks) been contacted regarding the second appointment. As I am booked for my first appointment on September 21st, also, at the Vancouver consulate, I am curious about the process at the Vancouver consulate. Was your contact by email and did you request the 2nd appointment by email? Or do they give you a phone number to call with a particular person’s name?
@tiger,
Hopefully, this will help. It is an exerpt of a Vancouver experience from the Consulate Report Directory that pacifica is maintaining:
*Calgary 411: Thanks from me, too, for this sent to Tiger: somewhat horrendously sloppy from Consulate, I would say.
But who/what is pacifica? Is this the same as “pacifica 777”?
@Calgary
Thanks for the post. You have probably figured out how nervous I am about all of this. Really can’t think of much else. So I appreciate the input of people like yourself.
@Cir
My time line is almost exactly the same as yours. 10 weeks and 2 days after my first appointment I received the email asking me to request the second appointment. That was four days ago. You wouldn’t be the Brokian that I met in the waiting room would you?
Even though it may still be weeks before I am finished at least I know the end is in sight and I am now confidant that I will be done before the end of the year.
@Calgary411, tiger
The excerpt you quoted talks about the lock boxes at Vancouver, which I also saw indications of. However the email that I received states that there is no storage facilities available. They could be using an old template for these emails or they might have changed things since. You are probably better off not bringing anything with you.
@Just a Canadian,
Indeed, consider the other reported VERY STRANGE AND INCORRECT communication from the Vancouver Consulate:
Everyone, there is a wealth of information in reading experiences in the Consulate Report Directory being compiled by pacifica. Have a look to see what you can see regarding others’ experiences at various Consulates for which we get reports. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/24/consulate-visit-report-directory/
Services for “US Citizens Abroad” is sketchy at best. We do not get telephone help for our tax questions from the IRS and do not have IRS offices within Canada and most other countries. As well, we may have to incur long-distance charges to the US and stay on hold for a long time for this bad service. Over and over again, we see that we are not well served outside the US. Although we can give our concerns to the Tax Advocacy Office and they are heard by Nina Olsen, no one seems to be listening to her. Not acceptable!
P.S. Different Consulates have varying work-arounds for storing “stuff” that cannot be taken through Security at Consulates. Try to confirm somehow. The safest, though, would be to try to have none of these forbidden things with you. (There have been reports of people leaving keys, etc. wherever they could find, hoping they would be there on their return from the Consulate appointment.)
Hi Cir,
I’m Pacifica, also Pacifica777. I’m working big-time this weekend (labouring on Labour Day), so I’ll be reading the site more thoroughly and updating the Directory tomorrow. Thanks for sharing your info earlier today. My impression of Vancouver also is that they need an efficiency expert. From what people report, the staff sounds quite pleasant and professional to deal with, so I don’t think they’re trying to prevent people from getting CLNs, but their scheduling system and requirement for two appointments does cause difficulties. I hope they streamline things.
Yes, Cir, that is pacifica 777. (Guess pacifica is her nick-name.) The Consulate Report Directory is a great resource to have a look at: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/24/consulate-visit-report-directory/ (as well as the database I’m maintaining at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/).
There are links to both of these in the right upper corner of the home page of Isaac Brock.
Hi, tiger.
I know you’re nervous. I’m nervous and will be moreso before my November 14th appointment in Calgary. Thank goodness we can all help (or attempt to help) each other. How could we get through this otherwise? I do absolutely know that I couldn’t!
I also agree with you, Schubert and pacifica about not understanding why some do not take out citizenship if they have made another country their real home. We do know that here in Canada the Finance Minister has stated that we who are citizens are better protected than those who are Americans who are residents who have not yet entertained the thought of citizenship.
I feel this is important for all “US” residents in Canada and empowering to feel they are doing something positive for their outcome: Application for Canadian (or other country)Citizenship is a step all who have not yet done so can take for better protection within Canada (or another country).
My allegience is definitely to Canada. (And, of course, I want, my son to not be considered a dual citizen either — he is, in my mind, 100% Canadian.)
You’re going to get through this OK, tiger. Keep the faith.
*Calgary 411: What can be done? I have written three different emails in answer to questions from Tiger, only to lose every one of them by leaving this comment box in order to look up something from an earlier email. How does one save a half-written comment in order to come back and finish it?
You may be the wrong person to ask, but thanks anyway.
@Cir,
You’re absolutely correct. I am the wrong one to ask. I have very little technical savvy.
What I do if I have a long response to something is type it in Word or even in a draft email where I won’t lose it and then cut and paste into a comment here at Isaac Brock when I am satisfied that is what I want to say. Of course, I then sometimes second guess myself and question that is what I should have said. But, likely mine is an awkward work-around for your problem.
*Pacifica777: Okay, Pa, and thank you for all your efforts!
@Cir, I’ve never figured out what to do about that losing a half-written comment. So, often I just compose my comment in Word and paste it in. It sometimes makes the line endings come out wonky when posted, though, so I go in and edit by using backspace.
Maybe Calgary has a better solution.
@pacifica,
Calgary doesn’t. She is technically challenged.