The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments.Β Thank you.
*@Lord Jim, I’m by no means an expert on form 8854 but I have submitted it myself for 2011. I am also dual from birth. If you look at the chart on page 3 of the instructions, section V has to still be filled out.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8854.pdf
I filled it out according to the communal property laws where I live and only reported 50% of the value of the assets that I share with my husband.
As for the minimum threshold for filing taxes, for someone that is married and filing singly, as I imagine your daughter would be classified, it is $3750. The $9350 you mentioned is for single people. If your daughter was to file as married filing jointly, the joint income threshold is $19,000.
Here is the link with the thresholds: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar01.html
8854 wouldn’t be due til June of 2013. The new form should be out early next year. I would also recommend you check out that link to the Hodgen site that Calgary 411 gave you. It’s the clearest explanation that I’ve seen.
Hi All,
Just received my CLN, signed 20 June 2012.
Timeline:
First e-mail to London Renunciations to request appointment (londonrenunciations@state.gov): 21 March 2012
Response from London Renunciations with documents to fill out: 22 March 2012
Sent filled out docs: 28 March 2012
Notification that I was placed on waiting list for appointments: 16 April 2012
Receive appointment dates and times: 24 April 2012
First interview appointment (telephone): 23 May 2012
Second interview appointment (in person at the Embassy): 30 May 2012 – The day I became an ex-US Citizen
Certificate of Loss of Nationality (CLN) issued in Washington: 20 June 2012
CLN received: 26 June 2012
It’s been emotional. Now it’s over. I was going to write something up about it. But not much to say. The Vice Consul who interviewed me and took my oath of renunciation was friendly and not unsympathetic, a bit taken aback by my being ex-US Navy, and I possibly came across as a bit nonchalant but well-informed. Was told there was a big backlog for CLN processing due to all the Swiss renunciations. Apparently mine sailed through.
I suspect the queues will grow longer soon. I have yet to see anything about FATCA in Americans Abroad magazine, but it could be because I’m not looking.
Strange sensation to be all-British now, but a couple of people to whom I explained the situation when it came up shook my hand and welcomed me. Not bad.
*I thought CLN dates were effective from the date of the oath of renunciation, but the CLN A Gentleman’s Rapier received was effective for the time Washington did their paperwork. This could create an obvious tax problem if a renunciation is done in one tax year and the CLN is processed in the next tax year, e.g. if one renounces in 2012 and the CLN is dated in 2013, would a person have to file taxes for their time as a US citizen in 2013?
Congratulations, Gent! And that’s super, CLN within a month! That seems, logically, about how long it should take … hope it’s a sign of things to come here in Canada. Anyway, great news you now have your CLN! Thanks for providing your detailed timeline.
@Newb,
Unless I misread the post, I donβt think thatGent mentioned the effective date in his post. It looks like he wrote that Washington processed his CLN on June 20.
The date of the expatriating act (May 30) would have been filled in by theLondon consulate, which signs the CLN before it is sent to Washington for approval.
You will have to do the German to English translation on this, but I list it as it references to the US passport being a curse!
If the property is a U.S. passport for the curse
The story is a bit dated, I was amused about how easy they made it seem to be to just hand in your passport. “Return of the passport is easy.”
@pacifica777
I must have misread… I am just a few weeks out from my consulate visit and am a bit on edge I guess. I just want this to be over once and for all.
@Newb,
No problem, that was a good point to bring up.
Glad to hear your appointment is just a few weeks away … things are running very smoothly inCalgary and their CLNs are now getting processed quickly. It should be over soon π
Report Report Received on Vancouver, BC, Canada Renunciation, June 2012
Request: 2012.01
1st Appointment: 2012.02
2nd Appointment: 2012.06
CLN Date: Pending
DESCRIPTION:
Entrance to the Vancouver Consulate
The following physical descriptions mingle observations from both visits. Outside the building at 1075 West Pender, at the right side of the tower, a gatekeeper controls entry to an outdoor waiting area (cover above, no walls, open to the air). Most of those waiting (30 or so) snake counter-clockwise toward the door in a U-shaped visa lineup. A few persons line up directly ahead of the gate headed straight for the entry β these are appointments with American Citizen Services. Persons are called through the door as individuals or as small related groups. Priority seems to be given to the non-visa lineup. Immediately inside is airport-style security. The usual stuff is put into a smallish wooden tray: wallets, keys, pens, belt, everything from pockets, etc. No shoe removal required. Whatever portfolio of papers you are carrying to the appointment is scrutinized. Then you pass to the left through a scanning frame. A short stairway takes you four steps up to a small landing. On the landing you reorganize and leave the tray on the small table there. Then you turn right and climb 15 steps to another landing outside a door. After passing through that door, you are directed to step over to the left and to wait for an elevator. You are given an opportunity to use a washroom to the left of the elevator, and you are warned that no such facilities will be available beyond this point. You are escorted, possibly in a small group, up to the 20th floor. There you pass through a few turns in a small maze that you will not see again.
Tickets for Line-Up
Both times I went to the very end of a long L-shaped (turn to the right) corridor to wicket 11 to obtain a printed line-up ticket. You are then told to find a seat and to wait to be called. Both times my ticket was numbered F-80#. There is much more activity for tickets in an A-### series. Tickets being called for service are displayed on two small electronic Q-Matic displays mounted high on the walls at opposite ends of the first leg of the corridor. All business is conducted by standing at wickets, speaking through glass, and passing documents through a narrow space between counter and glass.
Layout of Public Area
Decor is drab and slightly seedy institutional. No grandeur, just a harsh and unwelcoming functionality. The space seems designed to make those who enter feel like supplicants and/or prisoners. Beige walls, speckled navy carpet squares. In the small room, visible down the length of the corridor, is a poster showing a pair of hands in handcuffs with large caption: “False? Passport Real.”
Seating is available either in the small room you enter after the maze, or in a single row of 18 flip-down seats that stretch along the right side of the first leg of the corridor (about 40-50 feet). Most of the the public area is the corridor, which is about 6 feet wide. Opposite the corridor seats are wickets numbered 3 through 6, with a larger blanked-off space just before the turn around the corner (other wickets, probably 1 to 2, are in an alcove off of the small waiting room. Wickets are about 5 feet wide.). The business carried out at wickets 3 through 6 can readily be overheard, both sides of the onversations. Around the corner, to the right, wickets 7 through 11 continue along the left-hand side, after the cashier window is passed. All of my renunciation processing took place in the relative seclusion of the wickets that had no seating opposite. Exit from the premises is somewhat disorienting: an elevator in the wall opposite wickets 7 through 11 takes you directly down to the public lobby of the office building. Faint recollections of a visit to the consulate over 10 years ago says that the place is timeless, except for increased security.
First Appointment
My first appointment with the U.S. consulate in Vancouver occurred in February 2012. I arrived thirty minutes ahead of the appointment. After a short wait, I was called to wicket 9 at the precise time of my appointment. After brief conversation, the person (full name visible on tag) said he would “start the file.” On the tab of the file folder he wrote CLN-2012. He asked for U.S. passport (at hand), Canadian documents (not brought), telephone, and email. After a wait, I was called back to speak with ACS Chief Matthew Bunt. I was told in a factual manner that renunciation would be irrevocable, involve loss of rights, and provide no closure for legal or tax matters. At both appointments I was told that CLN processing would take from three months to one year. I was told that the second appointment would occur in the afternoon (in the actual scheduling months later I was offered options of early morning or midday, which indicates a possible change in routines). I was asked if I wanted to say why I was renouncing, and was also told that I didn’t have to. It seemed functional to make a brief previously considered verbal statement, but later on, as planned, I declined to provide anything in writing. I was given copies of three documents printed from http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship, Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship by Persons Claiming a Right of Residence in the U.S., and Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual Nationality β all printed off about a week earlier. I was given copies of DS-4079 and DS-4081 to complete and return, as well as the separate Vancouver consulate sheet that lists extra requirements for documents and information. The entire business inside the consulate took exactly one hour.
Second Appointment
My second appointment with the U.S. consulate in Vancouver occurred in June 2012. Appointment sequence was receipt of mailed envelope with invitation to request appointment by email, email sent to request appointment, and telephone call to arrange date and time. Entry to the building was faster the second time, and was based only on verbal assertion of appointment. In the telephone conversation about appointment I had been given a first name to mention. I started at wicket 7 with a person who handled the documents I had been asked to bring. This person seemed to deliberately keep his name tag flipped over, and when I later asked for his name, he would provide nothing beyond a verbal given name. Half an hour ahead of the scheduled time, I spent 15-20 minutes with this person. Then I was left to wait for about half an hour. Then I was called to a more remote wicket, probably wicket 10. ACS Chief Matthew Bunt first of all handed me “Fee Sheet 07/13/2010” with “08 Renunciation Document Fee $450” ticked off and sent me to the cashier window to make payment in US dollars. When I returned with receipt he made two brief statements: about the irrevocable nature of the action, that proper documentation like Canadian passport would be required to enter the United States in the future. Then I was asked to read most of DS-4080 aloud with right hand raised. I signed two copies each of DS-4080, DS-4081, DS-4083. All of this took about twenty minutes. For about five minutes at the end I stood there while the name concealer double-checked all the paperwork. At some unspecifiable future date there is supposed to come to me in the signature-required Canada Post envelope that I was required to purchase and provide: cancelled U.S. passport and my copies of the signed forms. The entire business inside the consulate took one and one-quarter hours.
To this contributor who remains anonymous, I want to offer my personal thanks for all shared here and for offering such a personal part of your life to all of us at Isaac Brock. Along with my condolences that such a thing must take place for all of us to get on with our lives, I offer my respect to you for getting through the grim ordeal.
Hi. While a lot of this probably isn’t relevant to Canadian ex-Americans, some of you might be interested in what relinquishing one’s U.S. citizenship for the purpose of Japanese naturalization β and doing the process in Tokyo and possibly Taiwan β is like.
If you’re interested in the story (the actual dates of when these events occured is already recorded by this site), you might enjoy the following:
Some of the stuff may be relevant to other people relinquishing their U.S. citizenship. Hope you like it.
Eido, why not cross post these at Isaac Brock. We are very interested.
*Funny, the Toronto consulate was visibly shabby as well. Nothing a fresh coat of paint couldn’t fix, plus maybe a dozen cheery posters from some state tourist authority or other. Though maybe the security requirements make routine maintenance a nuisance.
I’m not as convinced as some people here that the US is in total irreversible decline, but I must say the third floor of 360 University made it feel that way.
@Eido Inoue
Your story was a fascinating read, and very well written. Putting aside any of the pros or cons of relinquishing your citizenship, yours was an excellant human interest story about dealing with bureaucracy that should have wider distribution. Thanks for sharing it.
@Calgary, Thank you … and the person who provided their Vancouver Consulate experience .. very much. It’s a terrific start-to-finish description, much appreciated! I’ve added it to the Consulate Report Directory.
So many renunciations and relinquishments reported over the last couple of months. It seems like the IBS data is falling behind. Perhaps an indicator of how many expat Americans are really cutting the <<cancer>> of US citizenship loose.
Too bad for America to lose so many productive expats.
Will the economic persecution of Americans abroad ever end? Probably not, at least not until most of the expats have renounced or are forced to return to the homeland.
Hyperbole perhaps, but this is the direction things are going.
@Eido, thanks for posting your very detailed Tokyo consulate story on line! I put the links to it in the Consulate Report Directory. Please let me know if I may have your permission to copy your text directly into the Directory.
*@pacifica777: yes, you have my permission.
Thanks, Eido.
*I have an upcoming visit for renunciation (Calgary)… I was not informed that I needed to bring a pre-addressed and pre-paid envelope for my CLN to be sent to me. Has anyone who renounced in Calgary brought the pre-paid envelope? If so, how big of an envelope and how many stamps to put on it? Canadian or US stamps? Maybe the $450 covers postage? Please advise if you know. Thanks.
@Newb, Toronto Consulate sent to me via registered mail the CLN at their cost. Don’t worry about it.
Hello, newb.
We haven’t had any reports of such requirements for the Calgary US Consulate. Hope yours goes as smoothly as the recent ones there — and the subsequent receipt of your Certificate of Loss of Nationality. Let us know how it all goes for you and if we can add your information on the Renounce and Relinquish database (Date of First Contact, First Appointment Date, Second Appointment Date (which I doubt will be applicable for you in Calgary) and the date of your CLN). I’m pretty sure it will go well for you. Good luck!
*@ calgary411
I’ll gladly add my story re:visit when it comes up in a few weeks.
*@. Newby
How long did it take to get your appointment in Calgary?
*@ Hijacked… roughly 2 months.
PLEASE KEEP ME ANONYMOUS.
1) The Vancouver consular description and tale is completely accurate and I thank him/her for it. I would add that the experience is a grimly inverse reminder of the land of the free and the home of the brave.
2) I have had first interview in Vancouver; am awaiting appointment for second. In spite of my comment above, all personal contacts with those behind bullet glass were friendly and polite.
3) Before my first interview I was informed via email that I could visit the US on a Canadian passport if I had had the second required interview. In a separate email I was also informed that dates for my upcoming travel to the US would (could?) accommodate interview #2. My US passport has expired.
4) I am booked to travel (all reservations non-refundable) to the US in 11 days, yet have heard nothing concerning interview #2. My alarmed emails go unanswered. Phone contact is impossible without an unlisted number.
5) I seem to have been led astray regarding the need for a US passport; however, it is still too soon to know how this will play out. The irony could be that it will be Canada which won’t let me on the plane without a US passport. My Canadian passport is valid and I will have a US birth certificate. My intended stay in the US: 4 days.