We were wondering what was happening with the Fredericton group. They have created a blog that has only one post, which refers to a summary statement of the problem and to Russ Hunt’s amazing FBAR / FACTA / Expat tax information page. The Isaac Brock Society gets favourable mention (which contributes to my favourable impression). Thanks Russ! I like this line the best:
I’m increasingly convinced that doing nothing is the best course of action: something has to happen to straighten this out. But it’s clear that I’m not going to be eager to cross that border any time soon. It seems clear the IRS can’t come across the border after me; what they could do if I crossed it, though, still isn’t obvious.
What a resource. There’s a lot of information I hadn’t seen. I am particularly amazed at this bit
“Explain all face to face meetings, and any other communications you had regarding the accounts or assets with the financial institution(s). Also include face to face meetings or communications regarding the accounts or assets with independent advisors/investment managers not from the financial institution(s) where the funds are held. Provide the names, locations and dates of these meetings and/or communications.”
As if we would record the time, date, etc of every time we do a banking transaction or talk about a bank account. It is so clearly not appropriate to the situation, it almost makes me laugh, except that it’s scary that they don’t see the difference!
I was just about to post a link to this page.. This is where I found the Elizabeth May letter I linked to earlier describing her own experience of becoming a Canadian citizen in the 1970s.
I am almost certain this whole thing in the US eventually going to become one of those 100,000 dollar toilet seat incidents.
Or it could be like they’ve been gagged??
Great link…what exactly would be the benefit of relinquishing over renouncing? I work for the EU, but I’ve never taken an oath. I’ve also participated in lots of EU-funded educational and working programmes. My understanding is that if you relinquish the “Reed Amendment” can never apply to you if they decide to actually start enforcing it. I don’t personally care about being able to visit the US (too expensive and I didn’t like getting so “intimate” with the border staff there when they decided to pat me down because I refused to go through their body scanning machine) – Any other advantages to going that route instead of just renouncing?
Thank you, Russ Hunt. Also for your kind words. Quite some time back a news story from NB mentioned your web site – but no link was findable through your STU web page. Full credit here to the materials you have uncovered – and to all others who cite stuff appropriate for inclusion at USxCanada InfoShop.
@dompomodoro, the answer is in wikipedia. I think the answer is at the bottom of the article from “renunciation of citizenship” or “us immigration law”. I’ve seen it there before. Even if you say “I’m renouncing for taxes!” (which I know it’s not, neither is my case), they can’t deny you entry. This issue was challenged and ruled unconstitution by Congress.
I think the really rich people who DID renounce over taxes still have/had a lot of clout in America. The case of John Templeton is amazing. This guy got really rich and then renounced in the 1960’s. Every time I turned around, I saw him in America. I read all his books, and no one ever called him a traitor. He talked and acted like every other American, so nobody treated him any differently.
@geeeez
Just read the bio of Sir John Templeton on wikipedia. I must say, he is probably the reason why expat have the “rich yachters in the Bahamas” image. On the other hand though, I can’t blame him at all and looks like he was the more successful for having renounced. I love the that he was inducted into the “US Business Hall of Fame” in 1993. I bet that the political pressure to induct anyone else who renounced would make that impossible nowadays. At least he seems to have given away a bunch of this money to charities and universities that would have just gone to who knows what in the US.
Yul Brynner also renounced US citizenship in the 1960s, but for the opposite reason: He was living abroad and would have been bankrupted had he not done so. Don’t think that IRS could care less if they bankrupt anyone with their FBAR penalties nowadays, and renouncing of course won’t make the penalties go away. How times have changed indeed!
@Don, based on what CanuckDoc wrote:
“Explain all face to face meetings, and any other communications you had regarding the accounts or assets with the financial institution(s). Also include face to face meetings or communications regarding the accounts or assets with independent advisors/investment managers not from the financial institution(s) where the funds are held. Provide the names, locations and dates of these meetings and/or communications.”
This CLEARLY shows that they are going after the group of people (main US residents) who used the Swiss Bankers to stuff away this money. How is it “ilegal” if someone walks into a bank and deposits money like everyone else in that country??
IF the people on this site, who are vocal about this issue, REALLY had tens of millions in their accounts that they stuffed away *illegally* (laundering money), they would already already be in an American jail or have the US DOJ forming a case against them. Most countries have privacy laws, but a court order or political pressure throws all that out the window.
I started an application for a brazilian brokerage account yesterday. I stil have to get my free “online” bank account set up, and use that as a bank reference. But I used all of my “American” details, so I want to see if they reject me due to this. I can’t get more than a thousand into this account before I renounce, so it’s really just a test to see if I get rejected due to being American. I applied for a credit card in the past and got rejected, and I think because of my nationality because my credit is spotless. So we shall see!
I agree that when I read those questions I actually felt more reassured that I’m not the sort they’re targeting; it’s just that we’re all swept up into the net due to FATCA. I’d like to think that getting everything compliant will be enough because it will have got more of us back into the system.
Thanks for the kind words. I’m happy to know that people are finding the Web site useful. I set up the blog thinking that it would be more interactive (like this one) but I haven’t had time to do anything with it, and I’m thinking I’ll take it down. This site and the InfoShop are already providing what I thought the blog might. There’s such a thing as too many sources of information.
We also have a listserv, ustax@stu.ca, and I don’t know of another that’s set up to discuss this issue via email. Subscribe by sending an email to ustax-on@stu.ca. Not much traffic at the moment, but I’m expecting it to grow (most of the people who were at the Fredericton meeting in November are on it).
@Russ
The site is very useful and provides a lot of solid factual information.
Thank you again for sharing.
@Russ – Really great site with excellent resources and links. Many thanks.
@Russ. My thanks as well for what you have put together and we now have as a resource. Thanks for posting here and making the US persons in Canada (at least) more cohesive as I believe there is definitely strength in numbers if we are to get anyone to hear what we are saying. The very literate contributions from people in from other parts of this big world speak volumes as well.
Russ:
I encourage you not to take down your web site.
(1) You provide linked-to materials not available elsewhere on the web
(2) You are the locus for New Brunswick
(3) Multiplicity of activity in itself sends a message
Think about morphing toward a focus on the crucial New Brunswick situation. Longer term, each province may need its own gathering place.
Also, there is value in a narrative resource that embeds appropriate links. That is an effort that usxcanada does not intend to undertake.
@USX, If Russ wants to take down the blog (which is what he was talking about taking down), not much damage. But his other pages are important. They could be hosted here too, if they need a home.
Hi Russ, very nice site. Thank you. I will subscribe and hope we can establish some solidarity with the expats in New Brunswick. You might wish to remove this as it isn’t working:
(Subscribe by sending an email to) ustax-on@stu.ca
Petros has it right: the blog has only one post and isn’t likely to serve much purpose (or any more than this site and the InfoShop already do). But I’m certainly not thinking about taking the Web site down.
I’m not inclined to try to focus it locally: there’s not much about this that’s specific to New Brunswick other than that we have our own set of public officials and politicians. My sense is that if we’re going to affect public policy on this it’ll be national in scope, or international. NB officials seem to think, like Jim Flaherty, that now they’ve announced their policy they’ve solved the problem and all they need to do is reassure us and tell us to consult tax experts who will help us, shall we say, “come clean,”