Just Me has written a lengthy response to the question, Has the IRS stolen your life? This is an important statement from the most famous minnow in the 2009 Overseas Voluntary Disclosure Program, about whom Amy Feldman wrote in her Reuters article. The IRS fined him $172,000 but the Tax Advocate Service managed to have it reduced to a non-wilful fine of $25,000. We are grateful for the contributions that Just Me has made to the Isaac Brock Society.
So, has my life been stolen from me? Hummm. Nah, not really, but a big chunk of time has been misappropriated, and it is up to me now to see what I can recoup from the IRS’s ill gotten gains.
Not to be a Polly Anna or an ornery contrarian here, but allow me a minute or two to focus on some positives, as every FBAR cloud has a silver lining, as they say.
I don’t think I need to repeat much of my experiences again here, as I have commented about them a lot at Jack Townsend’s blog, allowed Amy Feldman to publish some of it on the Reuters story, and have posted some of them here. I have also spoken to a few of you on the phone.
As you may know, I have often lamented the loss of LCUs (life credit units) that get devoted to all this unnecessary crap which is a total waste of human endeavor and time. I have felt the shock, the emotional trauma, loss of sleep and total waking hours obsession that many of you have felt, and really empathize with those feelings. I have felt the isolation of not being able to share what you are going through with family or friends mostly out of embarrassment, but also not wanting to be characterized as a tax cheat by those who know nothing of what the IRS has embarked upon and subjecting you to.
I have been equally outraged how immigrants to America are being treated, especially new ones, who arguably had an obligation to know the tax rules, but just benignly got caught out when the IRS decided to launch its education program via threats of criminal prosecution. For what? Failure to file an administrative form that very few professionals even paid attention to, the infamous FBAR.
Maybe my affinity for immigrants is because my wife is an Australian and a green card carrying US person, and just could not comprehend the absurdity of it all. It wasn’t logical to her. Australia didn’t treat her this way, but as I pointed out, with tax law, logic is the last thing you should expect. It is all about what they can do, not what they logically should do.
It is just shocking to me to see how brazen the IRS has been. Pulling that old piece of worthless paper off the “rarely used Statutes shelf”, and then applying it as a penalty hammer against all sinners in an equal punishment regime when they should have been narrowly focused on the USB type cheating Whales in the Homeland.
Who could have known that this was a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off? Well, actually, some professionals did, as I learned later. Hale Sheppard for one. He was the Nouriel Roubini of the FBAR melt down. Wished I had known about his writings back in 2005 when he was warning about the coming FBAR debacle we are now enduring.
I have posted his link before, but might just do it again. It is worth the read for those wondering how we got here.
Title: EVOLUTION OF THE FBAR: WHERE WE WERE, WHERE WE ARE, AND WHY IT MATTERS
The dilemma of the immigrants really pisses me off, as they say, and embarrasses me for how my country is treating them. After this episode, I think we should modify the Statue of Liberty inscription a bit about “your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” Perhaps France should reclaim it, as the IRS has shown the US to be unworthy of the gift anymore.
I have also been indignant at the mischaracterization by Commissioner Shulman about the great “success” he is having in bringing offshore tax cheats into compliance. and how much tax money he is recouping. I have been incredulous to learn that many Reporters work mostly as scribes. They just repeat IRS press release assertions without so much as one skeptical question. Like, what is the profile of those that were netted? What was the compliance improvement percentage that is being claimed? What was the Minnow to Whale ratio? What portion of funds collected was new tax, and what portion were penalties? The list is endless, if you have an inquiring mind. No one in the media has wanted to take it on, and it just befuddles me to no end.
So, I have had my share of anger and frustration, however, at the risk of sounding a bit sanctimonious, and as a coping mechanism, I have tried real hard to control my anger outwardly. IE, be measured in my responses with the IRS, and be sure I don’t take it out on those around me. Also,I try hard to keep my rants to a minimum for those whose antenna aren’t tuned for reception. Anger leads to hate, and hate harms you more than the object of your venom. Of course, you all know that, and yet it can’t help but eat away at you. Sometimes you do want to yell out, “I am as mad as hell, and I am not going to take it anymore.”
Then, you calm down, make a business decision and settle with the IRS hoping they will now just go away and leave you alone. Fatcat chance! 🙂
So, here I am 28 months after the discovery of my non compliance still writing about it, and sharing its impacts and lessons I have learned. I should let it go, and get my gardening done, but I guess I am captured by the passion of it all. Maybe I needed a cause in retirement, or maybe there is a bit of evangelical preacher in me that is coming out, or maybe I am an educator at heart, I don’t know. However, it has had a benefit for me, when I think about it. It has energized me in a way I haven’t felt for a while since the last big project I worked on before I retired. So there is a positive there, that I would not have considered prior to this.
So thanks for your post, as it has forced me to reflect and think about it a bit.
There is another positive. And, that comes from meeting folks like Roger Conklin, the 80 year old “rock-the-boat” star who energized me with his comments I had first seen at the WSJ and now his great contributions to this blog. I have come to appreciate the knowledge he has from the years he has been working on his passion to end US citizenship taxation. I have taken on board lessons from his example.
I have also had the pleasure of becoming acquainted with Jackie and Marylouise at ACA whose tireless efforts have given us all material and references to use in our education efforts for the US Homelander. Jackie was the one that directed me towards the TAS as a possible relief mechanism, when no attorney offered that advice. For that I am eternally grateful.
Then, there is all of you, many whose names I do not know, who came together in common purpose to “birth this blog” as an outlet for information sharing and expressions of comfort or hope. Is that not a BIG positive?
Another positive, believe it or not, was working with my examiner, Pauline, as drawn out and tedious as it was from long distance. She was always cheery, and willing to laugh at my jokes at her expense. She was a lovely gal, very polite and professional, doing her job as best she could, given the limitations put upon her. In a different setting, I think I could have enjoyed knowing her personally. She helped me realize that IRS agents are not all red-tailed devils inside the bureaucracy. In some ways, I felt she too was victimized by this process with the total lack of discretionary ability to do the right thing. If you are thinking that was a little Stockholm syndrome creeping in, I will give you that! 🙂
Another positive was getting to know about the TAS, an agency I didn’t know existed. I met some very fine folks there who really did advocate on my behalf, like Nina, Robin, Rosty, and Lucy to name a few. It was just amazing to find this best kept secret at the IRS! I could not ask for a more professional group to deal with who really went out of their way to be responsive to my plight. Every schedule and commitment they made, they kept. It restored my faith in one small US bureaucracy, and removed just a smidgen of cynicism I have about government in general.
I will always recall the comment from Rosty, the TAS attorney I was ranting to about what was wrong with the OVDP, and why I was not the willful cheat they were looking for. He cut me off mid stream and said, “You don’t get it. You needn’t convince me. We understand. We are on your side!” That realization was breath taking for me, as up to that moment it felt like I was fighting the entire IRS bureaucracy that was deaf and blind to the harm they were doing. And, I like to think, modestly, that maybe my experience had some impact on the TAD that Nina Olson’s office issued. Maybe not, but allow me the delusion, please. 🙂
Then there was this guy called Kevin McCarthy, who was (wait for this title) The Acting Director, Fraud/BSA Small Business/Self-Employed Division, Department of Treasury, IRS. Fit that onto a business card! He was assigned the task to reply to my first letter to Commission Shulman when I entered the OVDP. In that letter I was pleading for Minnow consideration and pointing out all the problems this was creating with as many logical arguments as I could muster. It didn’t matter, as it did not change a thing! However, ultimately it was his letter of reply, while unsatisfying at the time, did restate the terms of FAQ35. That turned out to be my ticket to a reasonably successful appeal via the TAS, long after FAQ35 had been rescinded.
When I was up against the wall with the VD process, I searched him out, called him, reminded him of his letter, and heard his audible human ‘sigh of recognition” when I pleaded my case. I pointed out that the penalties that arose from a program his department designed was resulting in totally disproportionate penalties for the “so called” crime. Was this want he wanted? How could this be right and just?
How did it measure up to the Geithner tax failure?
He too metamorphosized from a “devil from the dungeons of darkness” to a human with compassion for my plight. He arranged for a conference call with a Regional head of the OVDP, Gloria, that was totally outside the normal process and over the head of my examiner. This provided a forum for me to plead my case to an authority position. The TAS joined in that call, and I got a front row seat to one department of government grilling another in my defense. How sweet was that? The price for admission to that show was steep, but I recall it fondly. It was beneficial for me to see, and realize that there was some heart at the center of the beast.
Also, a very positive experience was my dealings with Jack Townsend, Phil Hodgen, and Hale Sheppard which restored my faith in attorneys as something better than ambulance chasing, blood sucking parasites, the unfair characterization we all like to joke about. They all did yeomen work, and their advice, both paid for, and complimentary was another positive aspect of this “adventure”. Jack’s and Phil’s blogs were especially helpful for great learning and excellent forums for commenting and sharing information.
Then there was the positive reward of having a well known author and The Atlantic blogger, James Fallows to actually spend some time reading my unsolicited emails, responding to me with advice, patiently acknowledging me on avalanche of follow ups, and actually comprehending what I was saying. That resulted in a 3 episode FATCA chronicles that stirred a lot of interest and discussion around the internet. The hash tag #FATCA lit up on Twitter, when he did his stories.
I have learned that even some minnow like me, who is willing to put in the time sending hundreds of emails, to various unknown reporters, with patience and persistence can eventually generate some attention. Will it change the world? No. However, it does give me comfort to know that it is still possible to influence a wider media discussion of issues important to me and others not seen. You just have to plug away at it. “Nothing ventured, nothing gained,” really rang true in practice. It was not just another soapy slogan on a self help poster!
Another positive of this, came during the “darkest of times” where I thought I was alone in a (not to be hyperbolic here) life and death financial struggle with the IRS, there were others experiencing my same fate. I began to realize that on this thing called an internet, there were some very active blogs dealing with these matters. There were many others going through the same agony as me. Maybe I wasn’t just a lone nutcase in the wilderness after all, crying out with my assertions that this entire VDP process was so wrong, and citizenship taxation, as I have learned, was at the core of the problem.
I have also learned that some out there in the vast “Ether” there are many too timid to post something on a blog or even ask a question. My activism and willingness to “tell my story” could work as a surrogate for their feelings and frustrations and help them out in their decision making. They do watch for your every word, perspective and comment, and you don’t know how many or who they are.
You too, dear reader, as much more sophisticated bloggers than me, are having a big impact on folks you will never meet. You may never get the thanks for it, but you should take comfort in your contribution and recognize the education and solace your commentary provides to others unseen or unspoken. With this comes a responsibility too, and that is to keep the forum as open, embracing and non partisan as you can. Don’t let it degenerate into a Left or Right ranting society. Just my opinion, and hope it is well taken.
I never fully realized these impacts, until the other day, when an Indian immigrant, who had been in America for 10 years, searched me out (I am not hard to find) and called me in New Zealand long distance from California. He wasn’t looking for advice on what to do, as he had already joined the OVDI, but he was looking for someone who could commiserate with him about the impact this was having on him and his family. He couldn’t express it to his friends. They didn’t understand. I knew exactly where he was coming from, and at that moment, I thought to myself, “Wow, my efforts are worth it to someone I never knew, and will never meet. How great is that? ”
In the end, this too will pass, one way or another, and some will leave this community of bloggers and new ones will join in. I may eventually fade away too, as time goes on. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.
Unfortunately, while America may extract from our backsides some relatively minor revenue to support the spending habits that an Empire requires, it will also lose much more. Citizens who have talent, energy and productive value will either renounce their Citizenship, grudgingly comply but join in the active negative marketing campaign around the world, or just go underground never to be seen again. That is a huge unintended cost to my birth nation from this ill conceived and misguided OVDP process. Sadly, it is so myopic that even the TAS Optometrist, Nina Olson, may not be able to mill a corrective lens for their broken glasses. So it goes.
“If they will start an audit or an investigation then it’s too late for TAS right?”
@ Paranoia
The TAS will help after an audit or investigation is started. As a matter of fact I think they often can’t help until then. They are there to help people get things resolved with the IRS in a fair manner. If the situation is urgent they will probably move you up in the line. Stand by here to see if someone at Brock comes up with some ideas to help you formulate a plan. Good luck and so sorry the USA has turned into a nightmare for you. You sound completely UNwillful and if there is any semblance of justice left in the USA you will come out of this okay. Also, I’d like to wring that lawyer in DC’s neck for how he treated you and your spouse.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Taxpayer-Advocate-Service-6
Here’s their criteria:
(1) The taxpayer is experiencing economic harm or is about to suffer economic harm.
(2) The taxpayer is facing an immediate threat of adverse action.
(3) The taxpayer will incur significant costs if relief is not granted (including fees for professional representation).
(4) The taxpayer will suffer irreparable injury or long-term adverse impact if relief is not granted.
(5) The taxpayer has experienced a delay of more than 30 days to resolve a tax account problem.
(6) The taxpayer did not receive a response or resolution to their problem or inquiry by the date promised.
(7) A system or procedure has either failed to operate as intended, or failed to resolve the taxpayer’s problem or dispute within the IRS.
(8) The manner in which the tax laws are being administered raise considerations of equity, or have impaired or will impair the taxpayer’s rights.
(9) The NTA determines compelling public policy warrants assistance to an individual or group of taxpayers.
@Paranoia
Once again I offer the following thoughts on the compliance issue:
1. Do NOT use tax professionals that are based in the U.S. The reasons include:
– many of them (although I agree there are a few exceptions) see the OVDP or the streamlined procedure (which in your case wouldn’t apply anyway) as the only compliance options. They are wrong
2. Stay out of OVDP. It is only for criminals or for the people (who are small in number) where it makes economic sense.
I have never seen a single comment on the Isaac Brock Society site that suggested to me that the commenter should be in OVDI.
Here is a post that discusses a number of compliance options.
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2013/01/15/what-a-fatca-iga-would-mean-for-non-compliant-u-s-citizens-abroad/
@ paranoia: I hope you understand that attorneys have strict obligations to maintain the confidentiality of their clients. It is about the only ethical standard in their oaths.
@Paranoia, that tax attorney in D.C. sounds like a real shark! They’re probably an even greater danger than the IRS themselves!! Like yourself, I felt that God was testing me.
I am also wary of all the professionals because they are inevitably going to be somewhat predatory but are also a necessary evil with the complicated system is set up over there. When I first became aware that I’d been filing incomplete returns and of the draconian amnesty programs I felt utterly desperate because I realized that I was already in the system and would have no other option than to amend the still open returns, especially with FATCA on It’s way.
I did a huge amount of research and concluded that these programs were geared towards obvious tax evades and that while I would need professional help, that I was determined to find someone who would be willing to argue reasonable cause. None of my mistakes had been intentional and believed I was morally innocent though was painfully aware that amending the earlier returns would inevitably require specialist help.
If I couldn’t find anyone, I was prepared to risk filing going forward to the best of my ability but decided to hedge my bets by finding an accountant who was sympathetic to my stance, as well as affordable. One accountant didn’t want to deal with all my complicated Pfic calculations while another was going to try and charge me over $50,000 as well as possibly railroad me into O.V D.I.
My faith in a beneficent God grew when through apparent sheer luck I stumbled across a smaller accounting firm based in London. I was aware that once I disclosed my situation that I could be making myself vulnerable to whistle blowers and that there would thus not be any turning back but prayed and prayed and concluded that I would just have to place my trust in God…
I trusted that she was genuine because she believed me when I explained how I’d inadvertently created such a huge mess by going native with all my financial planning, oblivious to all the U.S. tax anomalies. She believed that I was innocent enough to not need an attorney (which would have cost north of $25,000-50,000 in addition). She also believed I was innocent enough to amend via quiet disclosure along with a detailed letter begging a waiver of penalties for F-bar.
She didn’t make any promises though but tried to reassure me that she was optimistic that I’d be OK. I by happy coincidence also became aware that she is a very knowledgeable regular poster on several accounting forums and whose arguments most closely match mine. It has now been almost two years and things seem to be going smoothly. In fact, I actually received a minor adjustsment from the IRS this morning on my tax bill for 2011.
I don’t want to tempt fate by becoming complacent but believe they would have notifed me by now if they were going to do an aggressive audit. I know they technically have another four years but as we’re not talking millions, I think they will be satisfied with her calculations, especially as I went to them first with an honest correction.
I felt I had no choice because I was above the asset threshold for having to file 8938; it specifically asks on that form whether I held any PFIC’s; to have knowingly not answered yes would have been willful. As soon as I realized my past omissions, I concluded that to not correct the past would have thus become were willful but felt that I’d been innocent up to the point of relocation because had been completely unaware of all the anomalies beforehand.
So in a way, with knowledge comes accountability. I have suffered much stress and financial pain but am so grateful it wasn’t even worse. But I agree It’s caveat emptor out there!!
I am an honest and law-abiding citizen; I hate all these intrusive tax laws and double standards the USA imposes on it citizens living abroad but accept that I should have sought advice before investing locally in the first place, though agree it seems like entrapment the way they’ve moved the goal posts.
I’ve concluded that I have to plough through all this but hope to officially renounce within a few months so I can be freed from all these burdens; if I retain dual nationality,I’ll ccontinue to be restricted in my retirement planning as well as ongoing accounting fees north of $2500-3000 each year. Now that I’m painfully aware of the costs of U.S. citizenship, I no longer feel It’s worth it for me any longer when I’ve been permanently settled abroad for 25 years with no plans to return…
You have my deepest sympathies but trust your instincts when dealing with these professionals!! Best of luck.
@Chris,
Reading about other people in worse position than mine only make me feel more hopeless, sad and scared… My situataion is very similar to yours in so many ways… spouse’s support ect.
1. I am still shocked by the completely diferenat way they look at a financial accounts, in my country it’s completely different and so I might end up having tons of acounts when it’s all the same money, in this stage I’m completely debilitated from even doing the most simple chores, I just gaze and think in my head about the magnitute of this thing…
2. all the lawyers I talked to scared me even more from doing anything else but the ovdi, and there is a big chance that the bank will end up giving my details directly one day so how can i do anything else? will going forward and filling the fbars cover in that case? if i try to take my money out and they sign me on a form (i forgot the name) will it be okay considering i did the ‘go forward’ approach?
3. okay, I agree i was going too far with the jail thing, although lawyers have mentioned the criminal aspect and jail sometime during the free advise hour…
4. if i do the go forward and get audited how can the TAS help me if the irs say ‘you knew about the program why didn’t you join?’
5. i am American now, but I don’t like my job and i miss my country a tons…
I really don’t know what to do… they sold me the ovdi as the ‘right thing to do’ and now reading all the blogs and posts I’m not sure anymore… i don’t know how will i be able to do it like you did and hold my breath for a few years, knowing myself and thinking of the worse every second of the day…
Em, thank you so much for your support/
I guess it will be stupid of me to think so, but can i call TAS to ask if I should joind the ovdi? I know they are a part of the irs so they probably can not give any advise like that… I’m just so lost I need some reall and knowlageble advise and so far i get the impression that there are so many different little things so consider… all of a sudden i realized that my hard earned penssion plan that i worked for most of my life in my origin country where i was born is considered something ‘bad’… or that my one account with different forms of investment in it will be considered as many accounts, all of a sudden i feel like on the papers (if i file) i look like a big shot investment whale when it’s completely the opposite….
@USCitizenAbroad
But i live in the US… and all the other opsions sound like a huge risk… especially once you already knew of the ovdi…. i’m thinking in my head i’lll be interviewed in person by 2 guys wearing balck suits and investigating me for hours… why did i use money from my bank acount while i was visiting my family abroad? why this? why that? i was told by an accountant that some things on the amended tax returne trigger an audit… but nobody knows what are they… OMG.. i think i will have a heart attack soon… i’m so not the person who ever break the law, how did i get here??
@Mark Twain – Yes, i know that, but in my mental stage now I’m completely paranoid 🙁 and when my brain starts thinking of all kind of options – its endless.
@monalise,
We have very similar financial facts i think, but you have better reasons… you were living outside of the US for so many years, i, on the other hand married a US citizen and live here for a few years already…..
how did you have the courage to put your trust in some unknown irs clerk? I would not sleep at night (not that i will ever sleep good again after this whole nightmare became known to me) how far back did u amend? i guess it would be irrelevant for me to ask for this excellent lady who helped you since she is in the UK….. i wish i knew of someone like that in my area
@ paranoia
I can tell you are trying to come up with a plan and that’s the hard part for everyone. Your mind is racing off in all different directions at once and you desperately want to find the path to making things right. Since I’m not sure I even have a plan for myself I hate to presume to be able to come up with one for you, except to keep reading here and maybe you’ll find something that looks like it might work for you.
Somehow I don’t think the TAS would accept an anonymous call seeking advise but maybe that is worth a try anyway. It seems to me the TAS requires a form with name, address, etc. in order to get a file going for someone. Even if they take an anonymous call they too would probably be obligated to say OVDI and by now you are seeing that many Brockers have deep concerns about that program. You are not a criminal. This whole FATCA fiasco is even riskier for those living in the USA because they are more vulnerable to the fear tactics the IRS uses and all of us here deeply sympathize with your situation. The USA has gone berserk and it is sucking innocents like yourself into the vortex of its insanity.
@Paranoia, I still believe that your situation sounds like a benign failure and thus innocent. I doubt if It’s as bleak as you’re fearing; believe me, I was once just as frightened as you are now. I at first first feared I was going to lose everything I’d ever worked for, including our home and our marriage.
I would be happy to give you her details but would rather do it privately. She’s still expensive and would probably require six years of information and, depending on how much extra tax you might owe, would determine how many years to amend (or file). She amended three earlier years plus did the then current year. She will probably charge around $2,500 per year plus Vat at 20% on top, so you’d be looking at a minimum of $10,000 but I’m afraid that’s what you’ll be having to budget for with her expertise. I still believe I made the best decision, given my circumstances though.
I’ll email Peter Dunn the details and then he can contact you.
….$2,500 per year plus Vat at 20% on top… yes this is very expensive and realy not necessary
I have found someone finally for a fraction of that price after having a bad experience as well first
For personal issues, Emotions Anonymous
http://emotionsanonymous.org/
It is made for people to deal with serious personal issues. The normal persons in the Group are those who have abusive spouses or are abusive spouses. But an abusive government is no different.
The program does not have solutions. It has a method (sometimes it is a bit corny, but what the heck) for a person to live with their issues.
There are meetings in many places. You can go to different meetings and find different Environments until you find one that is comfortable.
Maybe some Groups may not understand, but the Groups allow persons to talk and do not give advice, but all listen.
Melanie Beatty (Spelling?) has meditation books and her first books are very helpful.
I personally have feared for some bad (and very real) personal things, and that Group helped me to find my way forward. It was there for the people whose problem was going away and it was there for the people who had a problem everyday of their lives.
It worked for me. Please forgive me if it is not appropriate for this FATCA FBAR thing (but I don’t Think so)
@ Mark Twain
Not inappropriate at all — especially this thread.
maybe not. Maybe so. FATCA hits hard personally. Personal issues are very important in the situation we are in. It is really crazy what is being thrown at us. I wasn’t crazy. The World around me was crazy. The World around me now is crazy. I am rereading those books. I can only speak for myself.
Erase it all if you want. Just consider it that I offered my own personal situation on line.
Chris, good luck with that. The whale doesn’t go to jail because he has the money to keep himself “OUT OF JAIL”. The minnow will end up getting the book thrown at him/her because he/she doesn’t have the funds to have a “Get out of jail free” card. Capische?
@ Mark Twain
There’s an old thread your “coping” comment would fit well with too …
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/06/04/how-do-you-cope-with-anxiety/
See this FBARized revision of a poem re the US, new immigrants:
at http://hodgen.com/irs-chases-another-person-out-of-the-usa/
taxpoet says Mar 25, 2012 12:19 pm
Below, the sonnet from the Statue of Liberty;
“The New Collosus”
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Emma Lazarus, 1883
taxpoet’s new and REVISED verse:
“But now, brazen – with cold and heartless powers,
We return you penniless, still poorer, from whence you came
– having seized without regard to justice or restraint, even those early homeland savings; hard-won and earned by true, legal, and honest toil; taxed in the lands of their birth.
Send more to me, I will lift my club of taxation behind the golden door.
and smite with labyrinthine laws, all those who enter here….
Join hands oh new brothers, join hands with your fellows, expatriate millions fleeced abroad without recourse or regard.”
from taxpoet at
http://hodgen.com/irs-chases-another-person-out-of-the-usa/
interesting blog in general but take a look at this : http://www.getirshelp.com/irsblog/4965/irs-lawyers-scare-tactics/
@badger
That brings to mind one of the songs I often think of in relation to the FATCA nightmare. Just replace Regan, Haig, and Thatcher with Obama, Geithner, Shulman & Co., and it fits like a glove, doesn’t it?
The Fletcher Memorial Home (Roger Waters /Pink Floyd)
Take all your overgrown infants away somewhere
And build them a home, a little place of their own.
The Fletcher Memorial
Home for Incurable Tyrants and Kings.
And they can appear to themselves every day
On closed circuit T.V.
To make sure they’re still real.
It’s the only connection they feel.
“Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, Reagan and Haig,
Mr. Begin and friend, Mrs. Thatcher, and Paisly,
“Hello Maggie!”
Mr. Brezhnev and party.
“Scusi dov’è il bar?”
The ghost of McCarthy,
The memories of Nixon.
“Who’s the bald chap?”
“Good-bye!”
And now, adding colour, a group of anonymous latin-
American meat packing glitterati.
Did they expect us to treat them with any respect?
They can polish their medals and sharpen their
Smiles, and amuse themselves playing games for awhile.
Boom boom, bang bang, lie down you’re dead.
Safe in the permanent gaze of a cold glass eye
With their favorite toys
They’ll be good girls and boys
In the Fletcher Memorial Home for colonial
Wasters of life and limb.
Is everyone in?
Are you having a nice time?
Now the final solution can be applied.
@monalisa
a few practicle questions: did you send the letter asking them to forgive the fbar’s with the fbar forms? did you even send fbar forms for the previous years? or did you just sent the amended tax reports with the letter asking to forgive? for some reason i got the impression it is two different places….
How did you recover from the fears? how did you react to the irs (positive) letter? didn’t you think about it every day? I guess this lady will not be of much help for me because i’m not originaly from the UK so it’s a different case and language too…
@Em
you are so right about my brain racing trying to find the right thing to do…
I’m not sure what is worse the money issue or the way they view my past earning before becoming a us tax payer…
so what will you end up doing? i take it you don’t live here so isn’t there a different path for people who never filed taxes in the us?
@ paranoia
I am a Canadian (since birth) living in Canada (see my story in the Participants section below) who HAD a green card (returned it 15 years after it expired but got no response from USCIS). Basically my only plan is to rely on Canada’s finance minister to keep his word but right now he is negotiating in secret with the USA so I may not be able to rely on that after all. If “fingers crossed” is a plan then I guess that’s what my plan actually is. My other plan is to NEVER visit the USA (haven’t been there for 15 years anyway).
“Penalties imposed under FBAR will not be collected by the CRA: The Canada-United States Income Tax Convention contains a provision which allows for the collection by a country of taxes imposed by the other country, including civil penalties. This provision does not apply to penalties imposed under laws, such as the U.S. Bank Secrecy Act, that impose only a reporting requirement (as opposed to those that impose taxation along with reporting requirements). Also, the CRA does not and will not collect the U.S. tax liability of a Canadian citizen if the individual was a Canadian citizen at the time the liability arose (whether or not the individual was also a U.S. citizen at that time).”
__ Finance Minister Jim Flaherty
@notamused, thanks for the song. We used to leaven and interweave some of the threads here at IBS with apt songs and quotes, but that mostly fell by the wayside after a while.