Last night I found myself in a discussion with a U.S. dual citizen. Basically, what she told me was that since she learned of the IRS assault against dual citizens that she felt that “her life had been stolen from her”. She listed a list of health and emotional problems. Furthermore like “a deer frozen in the headlights” she doesn’t know what to do. She is reaching retirement age and fears that her retirement savings will be taken. (By the way, she didn’t know about FATCA. I didn’t add to her misery.)
The “emotional and life aspects” of (what has become) the “War of 2012” are rarely mentioned. How has this affected your life?
I have to agree….
I am totally tax compliant, owe no tax,and have claimed every penny to the CRA.
Having said this, when I found out about the IRS obligations, i went into a panic mode.
My tax situation is a simple one….no accounts outside of Canada
Even 2 months after filing, i thought I would feel better, but i don’t because there is NO direction from either government on what they can or what they will do.
It’s like waiting for the Cancer to go into remission or get worse.
I think about this everyday…
I have not had a good sleep since October 3rd.
I have lost 30 pounds in weight…
I am considering taking stress leave from my job…
Having said all of this, in the eyes of Canada i am the perfect citizen who has always played by the rules and has NEVER avoided a penny of tax.
Even when my savings account paid me $1.46 cents in interest, i claimed it with CRA!
Now comes the IRS…..with uncertainty they have made me feel like a criminal with there lack of direction and penalty structure.
Like the rest of this….I just want this to all go away.
I sit here now…thinking….hoping all my 1040s and FBARs are in order….
My fear now is getting caught up in some sort of mathematical tabulation that will hold my nose to the grindstone preventing me from shedding this USC…..
I pray every night that this will not happen…
I am grateful for the this site and the individuals who take the time to do research and go to the front lines to help people like me, setting the media straight on the real story.
I have become a curmudgeon. I used to be a little easier going before this, though my wife may disagree.
I am angry. The only thing I fear now is the 2009 tax assessment from the IRS. I owe nothing, and so I guess I better get that 1040 sent in–but I am full of loathing and dread about my tax situation with the US. I may never be able nor desire to return to the states. I may have big legal battle with the CRA if they try to collect my US taxes and penalties for the IRS–for any tax assessments before February 28, 2011, when I became a Canadian. I have come to loath the United States. I was surprised when I came to the Canada in 1986 how much anti-americanism I met here. Now I am the worst anti-American that I know. Nobody in my circle badmouths the US with the same level vehemence as me–not just nice words like here on the blog, but with every combination of four-letter hate speech, daily tirades against a country I used to be proud of. “Hell hath no fury … ” Health? My assistant thinks I may have a heart attack one day.
But other than that, I’ve never been better. Thanks for asking. 🙂
In a word, yes, but I’m dealing with it day by day. I absolutely hate that some of the people I love the most, including my dear husband and a sister in the States, worry too much about me and how this affects my health and wish they could ‘fix it all for me’ — so I worry about them, worrying about me, etc. I go from thinking that everything will be OK to moments of absolute panic. I endeavour to keep most of what is going on and my anger from my adult kids. Other than a little bit of volunteer work that I keep up with and where I can be remain detached, I have virtually isolated myself from friends — my anger is not a good component of those close friendships I value.
My involvement with Isaac Brock Society and such is a big part of how I keep going and, I think, is part of my self-therapy. For me, the support of all of you has been my godsend. Knowing I am (you are) not the only one is so important. Although I haven’t met any of you personally, I count you among the very best friends I have had in my life. My humble respect and thanks.
Actions speak louder than words. The US is quicker than greased lightrning in condemning human rights abuses committed bhy Burma, Lybia, Egypt, Iran, North Korea Syria, Cuba, Bolivia, Venezuela and in every other country on the face of the earth. But it is totally oblivious to the human rights violations it commits to its own citizens who for what ever reason, voluntarily or involuntarily reside outside of the United States through its unique citizenship based taxaton. In the case of corporate income from abroad, it is only taxed when repatriated to the US and is not taxed if it is left abroad. (Most foreign countries doen’t even do that but encourage their corporations to repatriate their foreign earnings totally tax free.) But in the case of US citizen individuals they must pay US taxes, in US dollars, on their foriegen income even though not one penny is remitted back to the US. This policy is unique to the US. No other country subjects its citizens living abroad to double taxation. And if they live in a country with exchange control laws which prohibit the conversion of local currency into dollars for payment of US taxes, US law obligates US citizens fo violate such laws and send those payments in dollars. IRS regulations do allow deferment of such payments from controlled currency countries, but only if none of the income is used for “personal expenditures” such as food, clothing, rent, etc. This is an alchemy provision because there is no way known to mankind that this process transforms blocked currency into dollars.
The US Supreme Court has recently ruled that Corporations are “persons,” and must be treated as such by other laws enacted. But so far this has not been extended to equal treatment of US citizens and US corporations on their foreign source income. Consistency, thou are a jewel, as I was taught in my formative days.
Yes. my life has been stolen from me, but there’s no way they’re going to steal my money. too!
I have had MS for 28 years. Nothing sets off exacerbations or progression faster than disrupted sleep. I had many sleepless nights a few months ago and my limited mobility has declined even further.
Before this began, I was planning on selling my house this spring and downsizing to a condo or apartment. Now, I’m afraid IRS will somehow find me, disallow my relinquishing my citizenship 40 years ago and go after my capital gains (or after income the equity generates if I move into an apartment and invest the equity.)
I am at the stage where I will soon retire and need funds in my RRSP. I am frightened IRS could also consider they are entitled to 50% of that.
Although I was losing a lot of sleep over this, I finally realized I had to “get over it” for my own health and wellbeing. That is easier said than done because I am still obsessed with this issue, but I am at least sleeping again. My body is making me!
I am so angry and hostile towards my country of birth. I feel like I’ve escaped from a totalitarian regime. (Actually, maybe I have!)
I’m glad I’m among friends here.
Ever since last summer when I first woke up to all of this, I went into a complete panic. I called professionals, I read the IRS website until I was sick, I called the IRS office in Paris twice but missed them both times and then I tried to make everything right (those damn FBAR’s). I never owed anything until 2010, the year I sold a little studio apartment I owned with my husband and I couldn’t make heads or tails of what I had to do and how much I might owe. So after three weeks of trying I admitted defeat and I turned it over to another professional. On top of those fees, I paid penalties and interest on the amount owed. It could have been much worse, I said at the time. I talked to my husband and younger Frenchling about it last night and they both said they were really afraid for me at that time. I was so scared and so stressed.
And then I heard about what was happening to people who had gone into the “amnesty” program. I learned about the huge fines, the people who were wiped out. People like me. And then I heard about FATCA and I lost it. What am I going to do, I thought, if my bank decides to close our accounts?
I joined every expat organization I could think of (ACA, AARO…) I started writing about it in my blog and on some sites I frequent. No traction. Frankly I really didn’t know what else to do. I understand that ACA and AARO and Democrats Abroad and so on are working on this but that’s not good enough. How can *I* do something and stop feeling like a passive passenger in a shipwreck headed for a coastline? Then Peter stopped by my blog and invited me to come here. This has changed everything for me. Just Me asked how I find the time to blog here and at the Flophouse. After looking for a job (my number one priority) this has become THE priority for me. It may not work but, damn it, I’ve decided that I’m not going down without a fight. I will try anything, I will fight dirty, I will stop being so damn polite, I will SHOUT in every language I know until someone gets irritated enough or angry enough or just so tired of us that they finally PAY ATTENTION.
Qui n’ose rien, n’a rien….
At first it was shock and denial; then it was fear and anger. Now I’m mainly sad and resigned to a life that will never be the same. I’ve recently had to amend several years of US tax returns because of a terrible misunderstanding about the US and UK tax treaty. I hadn’t realized that my investment income and savings’ interest would be taxable to the US as well as the UK. Unfortunately, due to how I’d done my investing, I faced anomalous US taxation on phantom capital gains which hadn’t even been sold. This particularly hurt because they were sold as being free of capital gains taxes in the UK. I feel that I should be informed that I’d still face US taxation but no one warned me beforehand.
This reduced the growth in the investments substantially. My British husband had invested in these for me so it’s like his wealth is being attacked. He was trying to look after me in case something happened were he to suffer a more devastating stroke and wind up in a nursing home. In the UK, they could use up all his income and savings to pay for his care, so he was trying to help me by moving things into my name.
Anyhow, similarly to Mach 7, I almost had a nervous breakdown and had to take a month off work due to the stress. I lost almost 20 lbs in weight and could barely sleep for three months. I was drinking more than I should and my face became full of sores. I was visibly shaking from chronic anxiety.
Even now, I’m still often in tears. I am genuinely frightened that they may decided to hit me with numerous FBAR fines because I had to submit six years of delinquent FBARS but because they had so many accounts, I could be made bankrupt since each could be hit with a $10,000 fine. I had over twenty five accounts so my total fines could add up to a couple million dollars, especially if they assessed all six years.
I thought about not amending the returns and just hoping it would go away but I realized that it might have looked like tax evasion so concluded with FATCA coming that I had no option but to see a specialist accountant and sort it out.
They think I will be treated mercifully but they have admitted that they can’t be sure because they’ve noticed a far more severe attitude coming from the IRS.
It will be at least mid 2016 before my delinquent FBARs and amended returns will have finished their statute of limitations. So any time between now and then, I realize they could punish me severely.
My dreams have been dashed; it’s not just the money I’ve had to pay out in double taxes but it’s the fact that I’ve had to move all my investments into compliant investments that will suffer far higher administrative charges and less freedom to invest how I’d like. I’ve had to take a huge reduction in income.
I ask myself why I worked so hard to save for my future. I’ve frankly lost all incentive to save any further and am now inclined to spend it once I’ve got through this mess.
I hate what the US government is doing and part of me even loathes the US right now. But I nonetheless feel a duty to pay my taxes in spite of my anger. I realize now that I had been negligent and that I should have taken more care before deciding to invest over here in the UK. I should have been willing to get specialist advice and an accountant instead of being a DIY investor.
I had been a young student when I first arrived here in England and had never filed a tax return. I began filing them nominally after getting a job but hadn’t understood that I needed to list all my unearned income because I was already declaring and paying taxes to the UK on these assets.
I am bewildered and frightened but realize that I will have to wait it out. My ongoing compliance will probably cost me in the region of £1500-2000, especially as I will continue to suffer a degree of double taxation, especially after I retire.
My life would be far simpler and less stressful (and less expensive) if I were to renounce. But I’ve concluded that it would be too risky especially during the window of time they could audit me or assess FBAR fines. I wouldn’t put it past them to be vindictive. On the other hand, as I went to them with my tail between my legs, they will probably be be forgiving, especially as they will now have another tax payer.
I don’t feel I did anything morally wrong; I simply hadn’t been aware of how onerous compliance would be. I’d thought originally that all they expected were nominal returns demonstrating that I was well below the FEIE and that the tax treaties protected me from any double taxation on my UK tax free investments.
I do have a sense of duty and honour though. I may hate America but another part of me still loves it, as it’s my homeland. It’s where all my family are. I feel that to renounce would be to spurn them and what they brought me up to be; they’d understand but would be heartbroken and offended because it’s looked upon as a treasonous act.
I’ve concluded that I will have to learn to budget for the ongoing compliance costs and occasional double taxation. Life’s too short to be bitter though. I just pray that things will go smoothly.
People like me would have been fine up to recently but since about 2008, they’ve been getting a lot stricter about everything. We’re indeed in a different world now, especially with all the technology that will make it far easier for us to be monitored. I appreciate that the US faces a huge deficit but I almost feel as though I’m being punished for others’ greed that led to this huge mess in the first place.
I just hope the US will finally see sense and change their rules about citizenship-based taxation and all the onerous reporting requirements for expats abroad. It seems a breach of the 4th, 5th and 8th amendments, all this FBAR and FATCA stuff. I almost feel as though I’ve been raped and pillaged!!
@monalisa, you have more time to let the US come to their senses. I, at 68 and having my retirement funds sucked away by them, have less charity and hope for the US. coming to their senses on the wisdom of taxing based on citizenship.
I also understand your intense patriotism. I have wonderful memories of my humble childhood and teen growing-up years there, but I cherish all that Canada has given me and my family.
Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America everyday skewed our senses. I still remember when “one nation, under God” was added. I felt then in my formative young years there was something wrong with saying God favoured one nation over another.
In fact, I cannot stand the audacious “patriotic” belief of the “exceptionalism of the USA.” But then, I’m old and cranky these days.
“One nation, under God” means that the United States is supposed to be submitted to God’s rule, not that God had given the US most favoured nation status. At least that’s the way I understood it.
@monalisa, does the IRS have a way of collecting FBAR fines from you in England?
Yes, Calgary, they do indeed have a sense of exceptionalism. If I had no ties, I might have felt differently and more out of self-interest. But not all decisions are economic decisions. Life is not always fair and I’ve concluded that this will be my cross to bear.
At least it’s taught me to appreciate what I still have, especially when I once thought I might lose virtually everything. Peace of mind is golden and seems elusive these days…
In my mind only, what ‘one nation under God’ meant is not what it is in the minds of many, many people who think that the US is exceptional from all others. I’ve heard too much while there lately and come to the conclusion, for my myself only, NEVER, never to make eye contact or engage in any kind of meaningful conversation with anyone who wears a flag hat in the USA. Mind you, these are people who have never left their little communities in the US, have little idea of where Canada is (let alone Calgary or Yellowhorse or even more so all the other wondrous countries of the world across the vast oceans). I understand why they believe what they do and I sympathize for where they are in their lives and I do find it very interesting to observe — I am no great world traveller, nor a well-educated person, but the insulation of so many I’ve talked to in rural USA who think the US is indeed exceptional drives me crazy. You would think that would be enough to have my US citizenship revoked.
First SHOCK, Then more SHOCK. I thought what the hell is going on, this can’t be happening. It has been month’s since I have had a good nights sleep, even with sleeping pills I can’t sleep. Everytime I hear the word IRS, I get knots in my stomach. Now I have ulcers and stay sick on my stomach 24/7. Isn’t this just wonderful. I feel we should SUE the US Gov. for all the hardship this has caused us. It is just not fair. Tax Cheats are you kidding, what the hell are they talking about. We could not be a more honest group of people here..
What really makes me mad is My Accidental Son, who was born here and has to file, I told him NO WAY are you going to pay a dime, I will pay for the Accountant and any thing else you would have to pay, it is not his fault his mother is a US Citizen and I feel so bad that they are making these kids who dont even have a SSN be put into this ridculous mess. I am just super angry with all this.. I feel my life has changed so much since I first heard about this, my husband does not want to hear a word about it.. its my problem. If I didn’t come to Isaac Brock I would be all alone.
The Isaac Brock Society has helped me alot, even though I do not write or make many comments Believe me I am here at least 20 times a day.. Thanks to all for your knowledge and support..
Thanks so much Peter for starting this Site, we all appreciate it so much!!
I can indeed relate to all the comments on here. We’re all going through Hell.
I was asked if the UK could enforce FBAR fines for the US. I believe they can do based on the UK/US tax treaty; However, as I have dual nationality, I’d hope the IRS would have the sense not to risk a diplomatic incident with such a close ally.
I went to them first before they discovered my mistakes. Another risk that comes with self-prepared returns. I think for my peace of mind that it’s worth sticking with my current accountant in spite of higher than average costs because I trust that she will keep me compliant and thus out of danger.
She has also told me that she will help me fight my corner because she feels it’s outrageous how draconian it’s all becoming for minnows like me.
Panic, nervous breakdown, anti-depressants, and I had to go on sick leave from work for a couple of months. I wouldn’t wish that end-of-the-world feeling I had on anyone, but I have to admit I am comforted to read that i am not the only one who reacted like this. Maybe I’m not nuts after all?
It’s like having a cancer diagnosis and having no idea if I’m going to fully recover or be destroyed. In fact, even in a best case scenario, I will have lost over $50,000 in back taxes and accounting costs; and furthermore, I’ll have to budget for at least $2,000 per year for ongoing compliance costs. I frankly find that outrageous, especially as they’d take the view that I’d gotten off lightly.
I will have to wait at least four and a half years before I’ll have got through the statute of limitations. It’s like being on death row.
Any hopes of early retirement are now dashed.
I have been fully compliant here in the UK, so it seems like blatent discrimination.
Actually closer to $30,000 but still a lot of money in relation to my assets and what I earn…for me, the real cost had been all the stress and fear I’m still living in. It’s like serving a six year sentence. Thank God my spouse and parents have been understanding. Money’s not everything either but it makes me feel bitter, all this.
So, has my life been stolen from me? Hummm. Nah, not really, but a big chunk of time has been miss appropriated, and it is up to me now to see what I can recoup from the IRS’s ill gotten gains.
Not to be a Polly Anna or an ornery contrarian here, but allow me a minute or two to focus on some positives, as every FBAR cloud has a silver lining, as they say.
I don’t think I need to repeat much of my experiences again here, as I have commented about them a lot at Jack Townsend’s blog, allowed Amy Feldman to publish some of it on the Reuters story, and have posted some of them here. I have also spoken to a few of you on the phone.
As you may know, I have often lamented the loss of LCUs (life credit units) that get devoted to all this unnecessary crap which is a total waste of human endeavor and time. I have felt the shock, the emotional trauma, loss of sleep and total waking hours obsession that many of you have felt, and really empathize with those feelings. I have felt the isolation of not being able to share what you are going through with family or friends mostly out of embarrassment, but also not wanting to be characterized as a tax cheat by those who know nothing of what the IRS has embarked upon and subjecting you to.
I have been equally outraged how immigrants to America are being treated, especially new ones, who arguably had an obligation to know the tax rules, but just benignly got caught out when the IRS decided to launch its education program via threats of criminal prosecution. For what? Failure to file an administrative form that very few professionals even paid attention to, the infamous FBAR.
Maybe my affinity for immigrants is because my wife is an Australian and a green card carrying US person, and just could not comprehend the absurdity of it all. It wasn’t logical to her. Australia didn’t treat her this way, but as I pointed out, with tax law, logic is the last thing you should expect. It is all about what they can do, not what they logically should do.
It is just shocking to me to see how brazen the IRS has been. Pulling that old piece of worthless paper off the “rarely used Statutes shelf”, and then applying it as a penalty hammer against all sinners in an equal punishment regime when they should have been narrowly focused on the USB type cheating Whales in the Homeland.
Who could have known that this was a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off? Well, actually, some professionals did, as I learned later. Hale Sheppard for one. He was the Nouriel Roubini of the FBAR melt down. Wished I had known about his writings back in 2005 when he was warning about the coming FBAR debacle we are now enduring.
I have posted his link before, but might just do it again. It is worth the read for those wondering how we got here.
Title EVOLUTION OF THE FBAR: WHERE WE WERE, WHERE WE ARE, AND WHY IT MATTERS
http://www.hbtlj.org/v07p1/v07p1_sheppard.pdf
The dilemma of the immigrants really pisses me off, as they say, and embarrasses me for how my country is treating them. After this episode, I think we should modify the Statue of Liberty inscription a bit about “your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” Perhaps France should reclaim it, as the IRS has shown the US to be unworthy of the gift anymore.
I have also been indignant at the mischaracterization by Commissioner Shulman about the great “success” he is having in bringing offshore tax cheats into compliance. and how much tax money he is recouping. I have been incredulous to learn that many Reporters work mostly as scribes. They just repeat IRS press release assertions without so much as one skeptical question. Like, what is the profile of those that were netted? What was the compliance improvement percentage that is being claimed? What was the Minnow to Whale ratio? What portion of funds collected was new tax, and what portion were penalties? The list is endless, if you have an inquiring mind. No one in the media has wanted to take it on, and it just befuddles me to no end.
So, I have had my share of anger and frustration, however, at the risk of sounding a bit sanctimonious, and as a coping mechanism, I have tried real hard to control my anger outwardly. IE, be measured in my responses with the IRS, and be sure I don’t take it out on those around me. Also,I try hard to keep my rants to a minimum for those whose antenna aren’t tuned for reception. Anger leads to hate, and hate harms you more than the object of your venom. Of course, you all know that, and yet it can’t help but eat away at you. Sometimes you do want to yell out, “I am as mad as hell, and I am not going to take it anymore.”
Then, you calm down, make a business decision and settle with the IRS hoping they will now just go away and leave you alone. Fatcat chance! 🙂
So, here I am 28 months after the discovery of my non compliance still writing about it, and sharing its impacts and lessons I have learned. I should let it go, and get my gardening done, but I guess I am captured by the passion of it all. Maybe I needed a cause in retirement, or maybe there is a bit of evangelical preacher in me that is coming out, or maybe I am an educator at heart, I don’t know. However, it has had a benefit for me, when I think about it. It has energized me in a way I haven’t felt for a while since the last big project I worked on before I retired. So there is a positive there, that I would not have considered prior to this.
So thanks for your post, as it has forced me to reflect and think about it a bit.
There is another positive. And, that comes from meeting folks like Roger Conklin, the 80 year old “rock-the-boat” star who energized me with his comments I had first seen at the WSJ and now his great contributions to this blog. I have come to appreciate the knowledge he has from the years he has been working on his passion to end US citizenship taxation. I have taken on board lessons from his example.
I have also had the pleasure of becoming acquainted with Jackie and Marylouise at ACA whose tireless efforts have given us all material and references to use in our education efforts for the US Homelander. Jackie was the one that directed me towards the TAS as a possible relief mechanism, when no attorney offered that advice. For that I am eternally grateful.
Then, there is all of you, many whose names I do not know, who came together in common purpose to “birth this blog” as an outlet for information sharing and expressions of comfort or hope. Is that not a BIG positive?
Another positive, believe it or not, was working with my examiner, Pauline, as drawn out and tedious as it was from long distance. She was always cheery, and willing to laugh at my jokes at her expense. She was a lovely gal, very polite and professional, doing her job as best she could, given the limitations put upon her. In a different setting, I think I could have enjoyed knowing her personally. She helped me realize that IRS agents are not all red-tailed devils inside the bureaucracy. In some ways, I felt she too was victimized by this process with the total lack of discretionary ability to do the right thing. If you are thinking that was a little Stockholm syndrome creeping in, I will give you that! 🙂
Another positive was getting to know about the TAS, an agency I didn’t know existed. I met some very fine folks there who really did advocate on my behalf, like Nina, Robin, Rosty, and Lucy to name a few. It was just amazing to find this best kept secret at the IRS! I could not ask for a more professional group to deal with who really went out of their way to be responsive to my plight. Every schedule and commitment they made, they kept. It restored my faith in one small US bureaucracy, and removed just a smidgen of cynicism I have about government in general.
I will always recall the comment from Rosty, the TAS attorney I was ranting to about what was wrong with the OVDP, and why I was not the willful cheat they were looking for. He cut me off mid stream and said, “You don’t get it. You needn’t convince me. We understand. We are on your side!” That realization was breath taking for me, as up to that moment it felt like I was fighting the entire IRS bureaucracy that was deaf and blind to the harm they were doing. And, I like to think, modestly, that maybe my experience had some impact on the TAD that Nina Olson’s office issued. Maybe not, but allow me the delusion, please. 🙂
Then there was this guy called Kevin McCarthy, who was (wait for this title) The Acting Director, Fraud/BSA Small Business/Self-Employed Division, Department of Treasury, IRS. Fit that onto a business card! He was assigned the task to reply to my first letter to Commission Shulman when I entered the OVDP. In that letter I was pleading for Minnow consideration and pointing out all the problems this was creating with as many logical arguments as I could muster. It didn’t matter, as it did not change a thing! However, ultimately it was his letter of reply, while unsatisfying at the time, did restate the terms of FAQ35. That turned out to be my ticket to a reasonably successful appeal via the TAS, long after FAQ35 had been rescinded.
When I was up against the wall with the VD process, I searched him out, called him, reminded him of his letter, and heard his audible human ‘sigh of recognition” when I pleaded my case. I pointed out that the penalties that arose from a program his department designed was resulting in totally disproportionate penalties for the “so called” crime. Was this want he wanted? How could this be right and just?
How did it measure up to the Geithner tax failure?
He too metamorphosized from a “devil from the dungeons of darkness” to a human with compassion for my plight. He arranged for a conference call with a Regional head of the OVDP, Gloria, that was totally outside the normal process and over the head of my examiner. This provided a forum for me to plead my case to an authority position. The TAS joined in that call, and I got a front row seat to one department of government grilling another in my defense. How sweet was that? The price for admission to that show was steep, but I recall it fondly. It was beneficial for me to see, and realize that there was some heart at the center of the beast.
Also, a very positive experience was my dealings with Jack Townsend, Phil Hodgen, and Hale Sheppard which restored my faith in attorneys as something better than ambulance chasing, blood sucking parasites, the unfair characterization we all like to joke about. They all did yeomen work, and their advice, both paid for, and complimentary was another positive aspect of this “adventure”. Jack’s and Phil’s blogs were especially helpful for great learning and excellent forums for commenting and sharing information.
Then there was the positive reward of having a well known author and The Atlantic blogger, James Fallows to actually spend some time reading my unsolicited emails, responding to me with advice, patiently acknowledging my on avalanche of follow ups, and actually comprehending what I was saying. That resulted in a 3 episode FATCA chronicles that stirred a lot of interest and discussion around the internet. The hash tag #FATCA lit up on Twitter, when he did his stories.
I have learned that even some minnow like me, who is willing to put in the time sending hundreds of emails, to various unknown reporters, with patience and persistence can eventually generate some attention. Will it change the world? No. However, it does give me comfort to know that it is still possible to influence a wider media discussion of issues important to me and others not seen. You just have to plug away at it. “Nothing ventured, nothing gained,” really rang true in practice. It was not just another soapy slogan on a self help poster!
Another positive of this, came during the “darkest of times” where I thought I was alone in a (not to be hyperbolic here) life and death financial struggle with the IRS, there were others experiencing my same fate. I began to realize that on this thing called an internet, there were some very active blogs dealing with these matters. There were many others going through the same agony as me. Maybe I wasn’t just a lone nutcase in the wilderness after all, crying out with my assertions that this entire VDP process was so wrong, and citizenship taxation, as I have learned, was at the core of the problem.
I have also learned that some out there in the vast “Ether” there are many too timid to post something on a blog or even ask a question. My activism and willingness to “tell my story” could work as a surrogate for their feelings and frustrations and help them out in their decision making. They do watch for your every word, perspective and comment, and you don’t know how many or who they are.
You too, dear reader, as much more sophisticated bloggers than me, are having a big impact on folks you will never meet. You may never get the thanks for it, but you should take comfort in your contribution and recognize the education and solace your commentary provides to others unseen or unspoken. With this comes a responsibility too, and that is to keep the forum as open, embracing and non partisan as you can. Don’t let it degenerate into a Left or Right ranting society. Just my opinion, and hope it is well taken.
I never fully realized these impacts, until the other day, when an Indian immigrant, who had been in America for 10 years, searched me out (I am not hard to find) and called me in New Zealand long distance from California. He wasn’t looking for advice on what to do, as he had already joined the OVDI, but he was looking for someone who could commiserate with him about the impact this was having on him and his family. He couldn’t express it to his friends. They didn’t understand. I knew exactly where he was coming from, and at that moment, I thought to myself, “Wow, my efforts are worth it to someone I never knew, and will never meet. How great is that? ”
In the end, this too will pass, one way or another, and some will leave this community of bloggers and new ones will join in. I may eventually fade away too, as time goes on. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.
Unfortunately, while America may extract from our backsides some relatively minor revenue to support the spending habits that an Empire requires, it will also lose much more. Citizens who have talent, energy and productive value will either renounce their Citizenship, grudgingly comply but join in the active negative marketing campaign around the world, or just go underground never to be seen again. That is a huge unintended cost to my birth nation from this ill conceived and misguided OVDP process. Sadly, it is so myopic that even the TAS Optometrist, Nina Olson, may not be able to mill a corrective lens for their broken glasses. So it goes.
I’d like to add one more thing: The IRS hasn’t stolen my life. It has stolen my birth right: i.e., the right to live in the United States–the country of my birth and of my parents. I have to relinquish my US citizenship because it was a choice of my Canadian wife and family or continuing to be a citizen of the greedy country I was born in. The decision was a no-brainer for me. For that I don’t know how I will ever forgive the United States, its lawmakers, and the people who elected them into power. I suppose I can only look to the example of Jesus who said, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”
I’m one of the timid ones; thank you. Like so many others, I’ve had my life upended by this, not least because it never occurred to me until a few months ago that the U.S. might think I was American.
I’m not, in any meaningful sense. I was born in Canada, to a Canadian mother, but my father was American. Our family moved to the States when I was thirteen, and my father registered me as a citizen born abroad. I was a stroppy teenager and didn’t want to move, didn’t want to be anything but Canadian, and so my father looked into the law. This was late 1977, and he told me that dual citizens by birth who moved back to their birth country and lived there for at least three years past the age of twenty-two while claiming the benefits of citizenship would lose U.S. citizenship. (I’ve since verified that, basically, that was true: the law was INA 350.)
Stupidly, when I returned to Canada as soon as I could afford to move out of my parents’ house, it didn’t occur to me that the law might have changed. I believed that by going back to Canada and doing normal, Canadian things — voting, applying for a passport, getting medical coverage — I would lose American citizenship, and I’ve lived since then– 1985! — in the entirely good faith belief that I have only single Canadian citizenship. (And yes, I pay all my Canadian taxes on my income, which is entirely from Canadian sources — and has been since 1985.)
Of course, as I now know, the law had changed by then (though up until the mid 1990s, I believe, it was not clear that you would automatically retain U.S. citizenship in those circumstances).
My problem, however, is not just that the U.S. might still consider me a citizen; even worse, to establish that I’m not, I would have to prove that at one point I was. I don’t have an American birth certificate (obviously) or passport, and (to make a very long story short) I abandoned all of the American documentation from 1977 in my parents’ house when I moved out, assuming that it would soon be invalid. It appears to have been lost in a flood nearly twenty years ago, just after my father died and my mother closed up the house and came back to Canada, precisely because she had no further ties to the U.S. At any rate, it doesn’t exist now. I would have to apply for a passport to reclaim the social security number that I was assigned when my father registered me or even to get into a U.S. consulate to renounce. But I will not sign any document saying that my acts of allegiance to Canada were undertaken without the intention of losing U.S. citizenship: that would be flat perjury. I really doubt, under those circumstances, that I’d be given a passport — with the rather grimly comic result that I also can’t get a CLN.
I’ve been worrying about this now for months, and I still haven’t decided how best to handle this situation. But I am one of the people “watch[ing…] your every word,” Just Me, (and Petros, and many other people) and you’ve shamed me into coming forward, however, timidly, to say a heartfelt — and I’m afraid very long-winded — thank you.
@jANEB
Not sure if I would do anything if I were in your shoes.
I am assuming you have a Canadian Passport that states your place of birth as ‘Canada”. (?)
I am also assuming you do not currently hold a valid US Passport….and you really have no intention of living or working in the US?
You wrote:
“I would have to apply for a passport to reclaim the social security number that I was assigned when my father registered me or even to get into a U.S. consulate to renounce”.
To me, that would be right up there with burning your hand on the stove because you have some extra bandages to use up.
I am not speaking from someone who knows this subject well….Peter (Petros) would be the one in the ‘know’ about this….but if was up to me I would do absolutley nothing as you are clearly Canadian.
@Janeb: Well, thanks for your courage to write your story. I don’t mean to shame any victim in this situation, only the criminals in Washington and their press/propaganda corp. The problem with citizenship law is that it is not always clear.
I have few comments about your situation:
First, if you were right about INA 350 and that was the manner that the law was interpreted, then you are clearly not a citizen. So therefore, I think this is something we should study, because it would affect a lot of people.
Secondly, the Obama administration doesn’t care what the law was in 1977, because they are implementing ex post facto law.
Thirdly, you are a Canadian, and the Canadian government has said it will not collect US taxes from you nor collect an FBAR fine. Therefore, you have nothing to worry about.
Fourthly, you were born in Canada, so in the off chance that they can figure out that you and only you are the person with your name whose father registered you as a Citizen born abroad, then they could stop you from going into the US with your Canadian passport. That possibility seems very remote to me. (Any thoughts Victoria?)
Fifthly, stand up for yourself. Live as a Canadian. You are free here (as long as you pay your taxes). 🙂
Thanks for both of those detailed responses! First of all, to clarify, what I’ve been able to find out about INA 350 (and I’m not a lawyer) indicates that while my father was right when he did his research in 1977, the law was changed in 1978. So it doesn’t affect my situation — although I’d been blissfully assuming all these years that it still applied — but anybody who was dual from birth and had been living in Canada as an adult for at least three years prior to late 1978 would, I think, have good grounds for claiming that they believed they had relinquished American citizenship, if they had done nothing to reclaim it since.
And yes, as somebody whose instinct is always to let sleeping dogs lie, I don’t want to start doing something more akin to poking a hibernating grizzly with a sharp stick by pursuing what I had thought were long-settled questions about citizenship. I hope that I will never have to do so. I don’t have an American passport, and my Canadian passport has a Canadian birthplace, so I’m fortunate in that respect. (And I also have no particular need to cross the border — all of my elderly relatives are in Canada.)
The problem, of course, is FATCA, if and when the banks start asking questions about citizenship. This issue has hit home recently. My taxes, fortunately, are straightforward, but I had thought about using my spouse’s accountants this coming year, just so our forms are done together. Then I noticed, on last year’s returns, that they attached a document requiring clients to state whether or not they held American citizenship. I really don’t believe I do, but it still gave me pause, and made me decide — those sleeping dogs again! — to do my own taxes, as usual.
That’s a tiny thing, and I realize that it’s very little to complain about — not least since I have no emotional entanglements, other than the predictable anger that this is an issue at all. I’m deeply sympathetic with the people whose stories I’ve been reading who don’t want to renounce but see no other choice, and I find the stories on this page very moving.
@janeb
Hope you didn’t think I was trying to shame you, as it took me a long time to start putting things on a blog for others to read. I was real reticent at the beginning, for some reason. Probably fear of exposure or embarrassment of asking a silly question, or making a stupid assertion. I think I am over that now!.
Everyone has something they can contribute to the discussion whether an unfounded fear, or an actual experience that we all can learn from, so thanks for making the leap. Some of your issues are unfamiliar to me, but I see already that others can provide help or guidance, so you “put your right foot in….. and that’s what its all about! ”
I can never complain about you being too long winded! Look at me, I am hopeless. I really need the character restrictions of some comment boxes to force an editing process on me! 🙂
Actually, fear of a typo slows me up, like typing out “hear” instead of “fear of exposure” above. I am dyslexic. I constantly type one thing and read something else. It is a real torture for me.