Tim has provided the link to the hearing yesterday in Washington DC, with Jim Butera representing the Florida Bankers Assn against the Treasury Department.
Separate post.
I found the level of expertise to be quite amateurish. That the judges were asking the plaintiff and defendants for their opionions. And the defendant’s answers are quite ridiculous.
Also, here the Texas bankers discuss the case here.
First of all, an incredibly important and successful day with regard to the video submission to be made to the Senate Finance Committee. I heard every single moment and the effect of each of the speakers was amazingly powerful. Each participant had a different and substantive angle that addressed the issues expats face. What was so marvelous about it was that it all balanced beautifully without any conscious effort to make it do so.
We cannot wait for this to be compiled and distributed. Stay tuned!
The written testimonies and harvested comments are coming along.
The focus of all this is to demonstrate the harm done to #Americansabroad by the U.S. Government. On June 15, 2013, a meeting was held in Toronto which was designed to allow those affected to speak freely, to express the harm they felt from the actions of the US, without any fear of being recorded, photographed etc. The shared and dominant reaction that day was fear and terror. What is interesting now, is to read the comment of a non-US person, completely unconnected to the issue had to say about it. See below. The contrast today? Anger and defiance!
June 2013 – Obama’s IRS and the effect on U.S. citizens abroad
What follows are the observations of a non-U.S. citizen of a meeting of U.S. citizens abroad who have been traumatized by the IRS. This is simply incredible. It explains why many U.S. citizens abroad live in a state of terror, trauma and fear. What do they fear? They fear the government of that “great citadel of freedom and justice” – the United States of America.
I have always been under the impression that many people sacrifice their lives, families, etc. in order to get into the USA and become American citizens; and I never imagined that anyone who has this “privilege” is willing to do anything and everything to renounce their U.S. citizenship.
Recently, I met a group of people in Toronto who were claiming that they have been traumatized by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and its rules. My understanding from this rule, The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), is IRS requires US persons to report their financial accounts outside of USA.
At first glance this issue didn’t seem to be a problem with this issue, and the first question that popped up in my mind was, why are these so called “US citizens” having problems complying with their civic duties; after all, Canadian citizens are also required to report their income, gains, losses, and assets to Canada Revenue Agency (CRA).
Then, I realized that the IRS and some US officials are working with foreign governments and financial institutions to become a vehicle to disclose private and confidential financial information of their American citizens and clients to the IRS. Now, I am thinking, why should Canadian tax money subsidize collection costs of a foreign agency? Don’t we have enough challenges in Canada that need immediate attention?
However, the momentum of this meeting changed drastically after just a couple of minutes, when the first attendee stood up to introduce herself, giving her reasons to be there, instead of enjoying the beautiful and pleasant weather, that Saturday morning.
A mature lady from the front row stood up, and said that she left US in the sixties, and has been in Canada, her new home, ever since, and she obtained her Canadian citizenship in the early nineties. She and her husband, who passed away a couple of years ago, considered themselves as good citizens, who paid their taxes, obeyed the law of the land, and raised their children with the same values.
She seemed to be very upset, apprehensive, and afraid of her future in her retirement years.Apparently, she has been notified, some time within the last three years, that she must comply with the new US rules, and is about to lose her life savings, which by the way were earned in Canada, by her and her late Canadian husband over the last forty years to IRS, because she was born in United States of America.
The second lady introduced herself and said that she came to Canada about 35 years ago, worked here and raised her family. She emphasized that all these years, she has been in compliance with IRS and its rules and regulations. She and her Canadian husband invested in a mutual fund over years in Canada. She broke down in tears just after a minute, as she described that recently she also has learned about rather confusing FATCA rules that could drastically affect her family in her retirement years.
The rest of the attendees followed suit and one by one described their circumstances and expressed their emotions in different ways, a few cried heavily, some were very angry, and many were extremely attentive and laser focussed, grasping as much information as they could that could help their situations.
These strangers, who have never met each other in the past, started to bond with each other, engaging, sharing their experiences, describing the circumstances they were in, offering the knowledge they have obtained in the last few short years, etc. for 6 continued hours under one roof.
In my short life I witnessed many people from many walks of life who cried in public for different reasons: loss of health, loved one, home, asset, career, passion, etc. However, it was painful to observe experienced grown men and women succumb to the pressure of “what if IRS does…., what will happen to me and my family.”
Probably FATCA was originally designed for those are involved with offshore tax evasion, and recover unpaid federal taxes, however, watching these people and their suffering tells me that there has not been sufficient consideration in recognizing different scenarios, or communicating with the public. I guess when there is a fire, wet and dry burn together.
We live in a violent world, and violence manifests itself into a variety of shapes and forms. Some of us are born to survive and some are here to fight with those who abuse their power. Either way there is a hefty toll has to be paid: financially, emotionally, and socially. Those who have the privilege of designing and deciding on policies that affect a significant portion of population should consider how their actions contribute to human progress.
Then there is the question of how much value a government allocates to patriotism. All these attendees expressed their genuine devotion to the idea of America and being American patriots, However many of them seriously consider the option of renouncing their citizenship, mainly because of the shortcomings of the present US administration. Neither money, nor force can replace the value of loyalty of citizens to their land and identity.Can a government afford to lose its most valuable assets – Its citizens!
On a different note, Tim has provided the link to the hearing yesterday in Washington DC, with Jim Butera representing the Florida Bankers Assn against the Treasury Department.
A research project undertaken by James Eastman-Timmons, an MA student from Carleton University in Ottawa, has been expanded to include volunteers from across Canada. Interviews can be done via phone, and I believe James is hoping to have all interviews completed by the end of this month. I have participated and encourage others to do the same. Following is an invitation from the researcher:
I am looking for current and former American-Canadian dual citizens residing in Canada to participate in a study. The study is on the extent to which current American-Canadian dual citizens consider their status to be inconvenient or burdensome. This study also examines whether former American-Canadian dual citizens (and are now Canadian citizens only) perceived their status to be inconvenient or burdensome, and whether this perception influenced their decision to renounce (give up) their US citizenship. The study will also explore how current and former American-Canadian dual citizens feel about the US tax laws. The researcher for this study is James Eastman-Timmons, an MA student at Carleton University, in the Sociology & Anthropology department.
Individuals interested in participating in this study, will participate in a 60 minute interview. During this time participants will be asked questions that are designed to determine the perceptions of American and Canadian citizenships and American-Canadian dual citizenship status. These questions will also examine what former and current American-Canadian dual citizens consider to be the benefits and burdens of this status, what their experiences are with filing U.S. tax returns, and what their sense of identity is; that is, whether they identify as American, Canadian, or both American and Canadian. Former American-Canadian dual citizens will be asked questions intended to determine why they have renounced their U.S. citizenship, and current American-Canadian dual citizens will be asked questions intended to determine why they have chosen to maintain this status.
If you choose to participate in the study you do not have to answer questions or discuss sensitive financial information, and you have the right to withdraw from the study at any point in time, for any reason up until February 28th 2015. All efforts will be made to ensure that the identity of all participants is protected. All individuals who participate in this study will remain anonymous in the final research project, and their responses will be non-attributable to them. By participating in this study, you will be able to share your dual citizenship stories and raise awareness about the potential financial insecurities and other difficulties that may be associated with this status.
This project has been reviewed and cleared by the Carleton University Research Ethics Board. For questions regarding ethics, the REB may be contacted at 613-520-2517 or ethics@carleton.ca. For those with further questions/concerns, the researcher may be contacted by email at: jameseastmantimmons@cmail.carleton.ca
Sincerely,
James Eastman-Timmons
Don’t believe the hype about expat Americans ditching their passports,
by Tim Fernholz.
Often “journalists” will write about those who renounce their citizenship without ever speaking to someone who has renounced. They react in anger at a perceived threat: filthy rich ungrateful Americans ditching the most precious citizenship in the world. Tim Fernholz is no exception. But I challenged him and he responded that I should have people email him at tim@qz.com .
@IsaacBrockSoc @FedupUSExpat please, ask them to e-mail me at tim@qz.com
— Tim Fernholz (@TimFernholz) February 13, 2015
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/vastnytt/svenska-banker-letar-efter-amerikaner
(hit the right button on the picture two times, and you come to a video with English text)
The article says:
Tinna’s mother became pregnant at the ship to America, and Tinna lived in the US its first three months. Now she can owe the US Internal Revenue thousands of dollars.
1962 had Tinna dad got a job as a visiting scholar in New Haven, United States. He took his family and on the way there was Tinna’s mother pregnant.
– They were bored on the boat, and nine months later I came, says Tinna who currently works as a teacher at Lerum’s high school.
She shows a photo of him and his proud big sister, and a telegram that his father sent when she was born.
– Rejoice Kristina is born, it says. After three months, we went home.
From Moodys Gartner Blog, Roy Berg, February 11, 2015: US proposes relief for some who renounce US citizenship: Is FATCA a motivating factor?
The details of the Proposal, and the chances of being given the effect of law, while interesting, are less so than the Administration’s motive for advancing it. Politicians don’t get re-elected by winnowing away their constituency base or enacting legislation that has the effect of raising tax (even in small measures). Normal people, even politicians, behave rationally so there must be a reason for the Proposal. Could the Proposal play a small part in a more subtle strategy that might involve foreign opposition to FATCA and IGA-partner domestic legislation?
**************
See, related:
Eric’s February 3, 2015 post, “Obama FY2016 budget proposes limited relief for accidental duals-at-birth who give up U.S. citizenship”
and
and, one more, to keep analysis (so far) all together in one post:
Part 1 – The Obama 2015 Budget Proposal – Change you can believe in?
Part 2 – My thoughts on this part of the Obama budget proposal
Part 3 – Differing perspectives on exempting a “sub-group” of “technical U.S. citizens” from the compliance and tax horror which is part of the U.S. “Tax responsibilities of expatriation“
Part 4 – Can this Obama budget proposal be implemented by Treasury without Congress?
From Dr. von Koppenfels:
[See pdf’s: Univ Kent study brief and US citizenship renunciation Kent study summary]
Dear all,
As promised, here (are) two documents – cut and pasted to go here, so I hope they don’t look too strange with the formatting – that summarize the initial findings of my research from the survey “The US and You”, to which some of you may have responded. Many respondents (thank you!!) took the time to write extensive comments, and I am still working my way through those (400 pages) of data. Producing a more in-depth analysis of that may take some months, but I’ll post that eventually as well.
For now, here the initial results. And thank you to all survey respondents!!
Best,
Amanda
11 February 2015
New Survey Shows US Citizenship Renunciation Intentions Not Linked to Income
BRUSSELS, Belgium (11 February 2015) – Figures released by the US Treasury Department show 3,514 US citizens renounced their citizenship (also includes long-term residents who gave up their residency) in 2014; this is the highest figure ever, up over 2,999 in 2014.
While nasty and vindictive Homelanders were expressing glee at the news that Roger Ver had been denied a U.S. visa to speak at a Bitcoin conference in the U.S., another covered expatriate was able to celebrate a much quieter Christmas and New Year’s holiday in Southern California with his Canadian wife. A recent article in Hong Kong’s Headline News confirms that Hong Kong actor Donnie Yen Chi-tan recently visited the U.S. and Peru with his family. His wife Cecilia Wang posted a picture of herself, Yen, and the kids in Los Angeles just after the New Year on Chinese microblogging service Sina Weibo. As far as is known, Yen himself — unlike his wife — holds only a Hong Kong SAR passport and not a Canadian passport, meaning he does not enjoy visa-free entry but instead had to apply for an actual U.S. visa to enter the country.
Yen is an “accidental American” of a different sort: he was not born a dual citizen, but instead came to the U.S. with his family at age 11. However, he moved back to Hong Kong pretty much as soon as he reached adulthood, and achieved fame in the movie industry there through his roles in martial arts films. He renounced U.S. citizenship in 2009, and showed up in the Federal Register “published expatriates” list for Q3 2010; as he stated to Xinhua News Agency when they interviewed him a few years later about his renunciation, “now I’m 100% Chinese”. This was not Yen’s first visit to the U.S. since his renunciation, either; in July 2014, he went to Boston where his parents still live. Having U.S. citizen or resident relatives makes it more difficult to overcome the presumption of immigrant intent when applying for a tourist visa, but as Yen’s case demonstrates it is far from impossible either.
Even though politicians on both sides of the aisle keep threatening to banish us, many other ex-U.S. Persons both famous and obscure have had no issues in obtaining a U.S. tourist visa or entering through the Visa Waiver Program. Some have even moved back to the country, either on work visas or green cards. Unfortunately, even the mere threat of being denied entry to the U.S. to visit friends and relatives has left some U.S. Persons in other countries too afraid to cast off their unwanted citizenship.
https://www.abolishfatca.com/drupal7/civicrm/profile/create?gid=17&reset=1
In order to change the mindset of lawmakers that overseas Americans do not vote (only 7% of expats, 523,000 out of 7.6 million, voted in 2012), it is needed to gather and provide our own statistics to them to show
1) FATCA (implying also FBAR & RBT) is a very important issue to you and
2) you do intend to vote in 2016.
Only the statistics will be shown to Congress. The names and street addresses are used for auditors and are not shared with Congress.
Names and addresses are required for survey auditors. Likely, it is not required that you answer every box according to your own choices. You choose what you answer
Please encourage as many people as you can to take this survey. Timing is about one week.
Yes, this is from one side. It isn’t Whitehouse.gov and it isn’t Move On and it isn’t Democrats Abroad (the survey’s you have seen before).
This is from the party that is looking for co-sponsors of legislation to Repeal FATCA.
It should be obvious as to why it is important to show how big the voting block could be. If all the eligible of the 7.6 million were to state that expat issues are more important to them than domestic issues, than it’s possible to get some legislative relief.
Note that voters are supposed to drive legislators.
Q: “How can I avoid FATCA?”
A: “Avoid US-sourced income, US investments and US investors/account holders and that should do the trick.”
http://www.ustaxfs.com/fatca/fatca-faqs/
This is just one FATCA compliance consulting house of all of the jillions of FATCA compliance houses .
FATCA is a way to get a bigger chunk of a shrinking pie.
Don’t forget to remind your legislators.
