We back filed 5 full years after renouncing. ( so called quiet disclosure). This was not the accountant’s first choice. She advised the old streamlined process.
It took 5 years and some gymnastics to get to the point of owing nothing which we did before renouncing. Haven’t heard a dicky bird. My advice, if you have no US ties, is not to enter the system.
As I’ve posted before, I renounced without ever entering the US tax system. Eighteen months later, I have yet to hear anything from the IRS, and I don’t expect to.
Thanks guys. Not that I disagree with the likelihood of being approached by the IRS after renouncing w/o filing being extremely low, but regarding your latest comment there BirdPerson: as the due date for the final forms after renouncing is the due date for the following tax year – possibly with extensions – it would not really make sense for the IRS to do anything at all until at least a few years after the renunciation anyways. I wouldn’t expect to hear anything at all either – ever, but still, to bring some balance into this.
@Scandiman.
As you seem to still be in the information gathering stage, here is some interesting reading on the subject of late filed Form 8854s from Phil Hodgen’s website:
Not filing the form at all would be, of course, a sub-class of filing it late because one could always change their mind and file it, even if it winds up being years late. There is lots more on the subject of expatriation on Hodgen’s site.
It seems clear from many sources that tax treaties with collection assistance provisions are only in place between US and Canada, Denmark, France, Netherlands and Sweden.
However, Article 11 in the OECD convention state this:
“At the request of the applicant State, the requested State shall, subject to the provisions of Articles 14 and 15, take the necessary steps to recover tax claims of the first-mentioned State as if they were its own tax claims.”
Does this override the tax treaties (and also erode the revenue rule), thereby making citizens of any country that has ratified the agreement subject to collection from abroad (= US)?
No, I believe that would only apply if that person was not a citizen of the resident State at that period in time covered by the tax claim. This provision would only apply in those 5 countries.
We back filed 5 full years after renouncing. ( so called quiet disclosure). This was not the accountant’s first choice. She advised the old streamlined process.
It took 5 years and some gymnastics to get to the point of owing nothing which we did before renouncing. Haven’t heard a dicky bird. My advice, if you have no US ties, is not to enter the system.
As I’ve posted before, I renounced without ever entering the US tax system. Eighteen months later, I have yet to hear anything from the IRS, and I don’t expect to.
Thanks guys. Not that I disagree with the likelihood of being approached by the IRS after renouncing w/o filing being extremely low, but regarding your latest comment there BirdPerson: as the due date for the final forms after renouncing is the due date for the following tax year – possibly with extensions – it would not really make sense for the IRS to do anything at all until at least a few years after the renunciation anyways. I wouldn’t expect to hear anything at all either – ever, but still, to bring some balance into this.
@Scandiman.
As you seem to still be in the information gathering stage, here is some interesting reading on the subject of late filed Form 8854s from Phil Hodgen’s website:
https://hodgen.com/filing-form-8854-late/
Not filing the form at all would be, of course, a sub-class of filing it late because one could always change their mind and file it, even if it winds up being years late. There is lots more on the subject of expatriation on Hodgen’s site.
It seems clear from many sources that tax treaties with collection assistance provisions are only in place between US and Canada, Denmark, France, Netherlands and Sweden.
However, Article 11 in the OECD convention state this:
“At the request of the applicant State, the requested State shall, subject to the provisions of Articles 14 and 15, take the necessary steps to recover tax claims of the first-mentioned State as if they were its own tax claims.”
http://www.oecd.org/tax/exchange-of-tax-information/ENG-Amended-Convention.pdf
Does this override the tax treaties (and also erode the revenue rule), thereby making citizens of any country that has ratified the agreement subject to collection from abroad (= US)?
No, I believe that would only apply if that person was not a citizen of the resident State at that period in time covered by the tax claim. This provision would only apply in those 5 countries.