Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
I was at and posted on IBS re: Castlegar Atamanenko meeting Feb 11. I must have posted report on wrong thread. Sorry. Yes, I forgot to mention the ‘chip’ necessary birth certificate if older than 30 years. Yes, it was full of misinformation. I will repost here, if I find my post on other thread. Gregg Boos, US immigration lawyer said, no to relinquishment if you have a US passport, yet on IBS there are cases of people who were able to get Relinquishment with having a US passport. I think we will put forward a ‘case’ with burden of proof, and apply in Calgary. my husband was bullied into getting one by the border here several times. The last time he was told they were not going to allow him across unless he produced a US passport. So, he innocently thought, ‘whatever’, I’ll just get one, as I want to cross border to see family, etc. So now he has an albatross to carry around.
I found my post: here it is – Feb 12, after the meeting Feb 11
“always something says”
February 12, 2014 at 2:36 pm
“We went to a meeting arranged by our MP last night. He was missing, in Ottawa, advocating for us?????? Standing room only. Organizers did not expect such a crowd! 2 cross-border accountants, one FP, one US cross-border immigration lawyer. They all had their bank deposit bags with them, just sign up here, ladies and gentlemen….All said, ‘it’s the law’, you must file. Oh yah, BTW, the fee for Renounciation at Vancouver Consulate has shot up to $600–is this correct- that’s what they said?
One little bit of good news, although would not help many, but some: If mother was a Cnd citizen, gave birth in Canada, and was unmarried at the time, child born may not be entitled to US citizenship even if later the mother legally married the US born dad.”
I forgot about the ‘chip-enhanced’ birth certificate needed. Thank you for the info re: Calgary. We are gathering our docs and burden of proof. It’s hard to sleep, and function until some resolution decision is reached.
@pacifica777
The relinquishing application, DS-4079— in ‘Vancouver. p. 80-81.’ says it expires Dec 31, 2013 in top right corner page 1. Is it the latest form to use, or is it an administrative DOS indicator?
RE: Question 13 (g) Have you registered your children as citizens of the United States? Can one plead the 5th Amendment? I don’t want to bring them to DOS attention. I don’t know why DOS needs to know. They are adults that can make their own decisions to keep USC or not.
If Atamanenko has a re-do meeting in the West Kootenays, I would pass around IBS cards. I did not know there were cards, that would have been appreciated to direct people to real research. I found IBS on google in 2011, not realizing the need to use it was going to be critical for survival.
@always something
Thank you for your synopsis of the Castlegar meeting – I wonder if the discussion about relinquishing happened because someone in the audience brought it up. It’s not the kind of thing that a tax compliance specialist would bring up, and if if was the immigration lawyer who supplied the answer, he’d better start reading Brock. Do you have the name of the lawyer by chance?
@Garm, the person who held the information session in Castlegar, BC is a criminal who needs to be locked up with the keys thrown away! It is so sad that some people misuse and abuse bad law for selfish and greedy purposes. 🙁 There is no such thing as a birth certificate with a security chip!
Well they do smoke a lot of ganja up in the Kootenays.
@bubblebustin
US immigration lawyer was from WA – Bellingham area, I think–Gregg Boos. The panel requested people either write out their questions or line up to a mike. I wrote out and asked the ‘relinquishment’ one, and he answered ‘having a US passport demonstrates desire for USP privileges, hence, your oath to Cnd citizenship does not trump your procuring passport after- hence Relinquishment not an option. I can’t absolutely say who said re: ‘chip birth certificate’, Gregg Boos, or the other CPA/US tax lawyer (he said he had practiced in Seattle area for 17 yrs).
I’m frustrated that my tax $s were wasted for these people to come and pass out false information. When we first saw the ad in the newspaper that Alex A was sponsoring this informational meeting we were suspect as the ad also said, put on by financial planner Debbie Affolter. She said little, just let the boys at it with their grave pronouncements of what will happen if you don’t comply.
This is a test post…I just wanted to change my name to show that I have a CLN…
It probably helps newcomers understand who has completed the process.
@ bubblebustin
no ganga smokers on the ‘info’ panel, just Armani suits……..:)
Gregg Boos started the meeting by gushing about what fun he had skiing our great ski hills on this trip. I found his comment insensitive considering the mood in the packed room. Maybe he wanted to balance the obvious stressed energy people were giving off. However, his flippant remarks sounded incongruous.
@always something
I wonder if it would be worth your while to drop Mr Boos a follow-up note correcting him on the relinquishment info he provided? Might save a lot of people a lot of grief if he was updated with some actual experiences now that the relinquishment/renunciation machine is running full-tilt.
@ always something
A good thread to post your observations (again) would be this one:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/30/public-tax-info-session-for-canadians-considered-to-be-us-persons-castlegar-11-feb-alex-atamenko-mp-ndp/
The Brock business cards are a print your own thing and can be found here:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/what-is-fatca-draft/
I have my own version of the cards that I use (got the Isaac Brock portrait on them). The fact sheets are there in the same place.
We just have to keep putting out as many fires as the compliance condors are creating and will continue to create. Gregg Boos deserved just what his last name implies.
Boos did say that he had managed to obtain relinquishments for some who had back filed taxes as a result of poor information, citing inappropriate advice from tax lawyers. That is encouraging.
@bubblebustin
I will email Mr Boos after I find the posts and get exact details of those who relinquished even though they had obtained a passport. I think I read today that there were 3 documented relinquishments of those with passport possession circumstances.
@Em
Thank you for the links for cards and info sheets. I will file the links to get at them easily when I need them.
armed guards at our borders…………
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/11/29/border_deal_fuels_concerns_in_canada.html
@always something
Mr Boos could use some enlightenment, thank you.
Thinking about the claim that the renunciation fee has increase to $600. Not true as far as I know, but it is in US dollars, and anyone renouncing will have to consider that now that the Canadian dollar is no longer at parity with the US. Doesn’t count for a $150 increase however.
@ Bubblebustin’
You are correct, that the renunciation fee at Vancouver hasn’t gone up to $600, let alone “shot up” as Mr. Expert said.
Per Dept of State and Vancouver Consulate websites and Code of Federal Regulations, it has never gone up since its inception and remains currently at $450 ($493 at today’s exchange rate.)
@ Canadian88
Can I contact you? This thread is a month old now so I’m unsure if you check it but if you do, I have created a dummy/anonmyous gmail account: markleecoffee (at) gmail
I don’t know how to start a new thread, so I decided to post my question here.
Has anyone back filed form 8891?
Apparently, I have to be squeaky clean for 5 years of federal tax filing , and the only obligation I have to file a 1040, are 3 spoiusal RRSP, that are in my name, purchased by my non-USA spouse.
I cannot find reliable help regarding this situation. I want to renounce. Thanks for any guidance.
Marge, You might get the information you need here: http://hodgen.com/new-official-easy-fix-to-unreported-rrsp-situations/
Thanks calgary411 ! He does lay out the options very well. The 7 years of filed fbars show the RRSPs, but do not match the amount number of 1040s filed with the appropriate 8891s,. I guess one office does not know what the other one has on me, that is to my advantage, since I have not received any fines to date. I just don’t know if the 1040s for 2009 and 2010 with the attached 8891s will bring me to the attention of the government.- or do they really not care. The money in the RRSPs has not been touched, nor added to since I don’t need it yet. Thanks again!
For all of you who have already either relinquished or renounced your US citizenship would you care to share with me how the final interview went? Like what kind of questions were you asked? Did you get the impression that some kind of research had been done on you prior to the interview? In general was the interview pretty neutral or did you get the impression that you were being interrogated? I would like to be as prepared as possible before I walk into the lion’s den.
Thanks in advance.
Michael Jones,
Please check out the link at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/, Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings), Part 2). Pacifica has put together the experiences of those relinquishing and renouncing at various US Consulates/Embassies. Other great resource information there as well.
@Michael Jones, there are a lot of reports relevant to your question at
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/
where people describe their visits to US consulates for relinquishment or renunciation.
In my own case of documenting a prior relinquishment at the Toronto consulate, I didn’t get the impression that any research had been done on me prior to the interview. The interview was businesslike and neutral, basically just going over the information that I had provided on the forms and asking me to verify that it was correct.
Thank you very much for this link. It was indeed very helpful.
@Garm, re the flippancy and misadvice by the tax presenters at that Castlegar session re ; “just enter the OVDI as the “simple solution””
Gross misrepresentation. OVDI was not and is not designed or intended or implemented to be ‘simple’, nor is it a ‘solution’ for most circumstances.
Thank you for telling us about this so we can possibly find ways to counter that gross misinformation.
@ Michael Jones
My husband’s interview experience at the consulate in Calgary could best be described as “quick as a wink”. He said he spent 3 minutes total at 3 different bullet proof windows and that was it. He was well prepared and they had everything ready to go when he got there. He had sent everything they requested via e-mails prior to the appointment and I don’t think they even looked at all the original documentation he brought along with him. They photocopied his signed “statement of intent to relinquish” from his citizenship ceremony and he gave them a copy of his citizenship certificate and that was about it. They took his US passport and upon his very polite request sent him an “interim letter” to produce at the border during the wait time for his CLN. Of course there was the usual security nonsense and chair warming involved — that occupied 1.5 hours of his time. Good luck to you!