Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
Good afternoon all,
Thanks for the information on this fantastic website. I have found it very valuable. I had a couple of questions for the board here. But first a Lille background information. And of course the obligatory disclaimer. I realize that no one here is a lawyer and that this is not legal advice and is stoically for entertainment purposes only.
I met with my accountant today to sign off on my IRS filing obligations. So I have now submitted my four years of tax filing as stated under the OVDI system. And my seven years of FBAR sheets. I believe that I am now ready to go ahead and meet with the consulate to proceed with renoucation. I will be filing my 2013 taxes once my Canadian taxes are done for 2013. And then I will have my five years worth of being tax compliant. So as I under stand it now all I have to do is call up the consulate make an a appointment with them for renoucation fill in the paper work and then meet with them, pay my $450 and then wait for the Certifiacte of Loss of Nationalty ( CLN).
Can some one please confirm if I am missing anything here?
Cheers.
@Krackerjack121, I’m sorry to hear that you had to go through so much Trouble. 🙁
The renunciation process is followed with a bit more paperwork.. Next year (2015), you will have to file taxes for the part of 2014 that you were a US citizen and also fill out and send in form 8854 to exit the US tax system. Some recommend that FBAR is also filled out for those days that one was still a US citizen.
@SwissPinoy,
So, when I go to the consulate, I believe that have everything that is required for the renunciation process. After that I have to file taxes for 2014 upto the point until I renounced. And then once I receive the CLN I am free and clear from any further taxation filing requirements.
Cheers.
@Krackerjack121, yes that’s it. All done. Providing you don’t owe any tax or get any penalties that should be your last dealings with the US and IRS.
Hi MedeaFleecestealer,
I don’t owe any taxes upto the end of 2012. I would anticipate that I don’t owe any taxes in 2013 or 2014 upto the point that I renounce. So, hopefully I can get this behind me at some point in short order. Thanks for the information.
@ SwissPinoy – thanks for the information that you provided as well.
Cheers.
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Four months and ticking. No CLN yet and no way to track it as I relinquished I didn’t get a monetary proof. I wish there was a way to find out what is taking so long and where we are in the process. I’m tired of all this and want to get on with my life.
@Shunrata, I’m sorry to hear of Chris’s passing. I’m late to this posting and I apologize.
@atticus
I’m in the same situation, relinquished for months ago. Consulate says to be patient.
Chris was a good person and encouraging to me personally as well as to people here.
An interesting tale of renunciation (found it in the twittersphere) and it gives a mention to Brock too …
https://www.internationalman.com/78-global-perspectives/1070-how-i-renounced-my-us-citizenship-and-why,-part-i
A good read for anyone contemplating renouncing US citizenship. Isaac Brock Society is mentioned in Part 2.
International Man (blog) – How I Renounced My US Citizenship and Why, Part I:
http://www.internationalman.com/78-global-perspectives/1070-how-i-renounced-my-us-citizenship-and-why,-part-i
How I Renounced My US Citizenship and Why, Part II:
http://www.internationalman.com/78-global-perspectives/1072-how-i-renounced-my-us-citizenship-and-why,-part-ii
I’m a dual citizen living in Calgary. My parents immigrated to Canada with me when I was a year old and I have never been a permanent resident of the US since. I officially became a Canadian Citizen at the age of 24, taking the oath and all of that. I would like to relinquish rather than renounce however I am concerned because at the time that I became a Canadian Citizen I was working in Washington State, driving down from British Columbia daily. Will this mean that they do not believe that I meant to give up my American Citizenship?
Also, can anyone recommend a good accountant in Calgary for sorting out all of this US tax stuff? One that will not cost me $1000’s of dollars?
Sonya. It’s truly amazing how many different stories there are. If you were working in WA and didn’t have a green card, then you were probably benefiting from your US citizenship. That makes it tough to argue.
Did you have a SS number. Did you file US taxes? When did this happen?
I do have a SS number. I worked one summer in Michigan (1996), before becoming a Canadian Citizen, I had gone to spend the summer with my Grandparents. I worked in Blaine, WA for a little over a year from 1999 to 2000, I lived close to the border and at that time there wasn’t a lot of work available in BC. I had Landed Immigrant status in Canada from 1977 until I took the oath of Canadian citizenship in 1999. When I found a full time job in BC I stopped working in WA and haven’t worked in the US since. I filed taxes in the US the years that I worked there but haven’t since. I’ve since married, to a Canadian, moved provinces, and haven’t ever contacted the US Consulate about my marriage/name change, etc. I’m not interested in filing taxes to a foreign government for the rest of my life! And I have zero intention of ever returning to the US to live although it is important to me to be able to visit my extended family from time to time.
A rock and a hard place… You probably have to renounce. After that, you will be told to ‘contact’ the IRS. You are supposed to file a form 8854 and file 5 yrs of tax returns. Avoid amnesty programs like the plague.
“Avoid amnesty programs like the plague” Im really new to this, as I just found out two days ago of my tax and fbar filing requirments.. and honestly I’m still in shock and don’t know where to turn for info.
Came to canada in 2001.. Applied for PR and became a citizen in 2006. have never filed any IRS or fbar papers while in Canada
My gut says to sit tight a while and see where this is going, and not throw myself under the bus…What’s the general consensus?
Carrida – Consider this now fabled quotation of 5 June 2012 from guru Phil Hodgen:
Political signals from the United States show that expatriation and tax policies are likely to get harsher. … The cost of expatriation now is less than the expected future cost of expatriation. Better to take the medicine now rather than later. … Expect the same exit tax rules, but more of them, and worse. Expect more expatriations. … Get out while the getting is semi-good. Don’t wait for more time. More time means more laws.
http://hodgen.com/why-people-expatriate/
Hi, can someone please help me? I renounced in April 2013. I need to file a 1040 for jan-April I know but do I really have to file an additional 1040 NR for the remainder of the year? I had no income or assets resulting from the US at all, ever during this tax year or from the last 20 years for that matter : )
I am trying to get all this in order to send off my 8854 ASAP. Can´t wait to get this done.
Thanks so much for all your help
@waldemar
FWIW I gave them a 1040 covering the whole year, just because it meant fewer forms. Apparently this is allowed under the treaty, don’t ask me why. They never bothered me about it.
@shunrata:
I am very sorry to hear about Ozteddies having passed away. This is very belated but I realize I missed your post about it back in mid-December somehow, and just twigged now by seeing your exchange above with @Atticus while re-reading this thread backwards. I always enjoyed his posts and the personality that came through in them. Please pass on condolences to his partner. It is very sad if any of his remaining time was diverted by worries about having to deal with US issues.
Hello all,
I would like opinions on my current situation as I am considering renouncing this year. I am an American who immigrated here in 1975. I’m 68 years old. I’m receiving Social Security for the past 2 years, which I’m grateful to have since leaving the U.S. when I was 30. I own a house with my Canadian husband, with a mortgage left of $164,000. I found Isaac Brock Society 3 years ago and thank God I did. Trying to grasp what is ahead, I decided to comply with FBAR and filed 6 years of taxes and have filed yearly for the past 2 years. Owe nothing, heard nothing. I have $100,000 or so in RRSPs. Simple filing, no business here or ever in U.S. I want to renounce and be done with all this paperwork and what future might hold. My question is in renouncing, I will lose my social security of course ($3300 a year). We will sell our house worth $400,000 in the next two years. The profit will be our retirement funds and could put me in a jam with IRS. Should I renounce now or wait another year or two and enjoy my social security I earned for another year or two. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
@ Sonja,
I have some information regarding Social Security. Eligibility for social security payments is not dependent on citizenship status. I don’t know if it would have different tax implications for an alien or not, though. Here is a link to a Social Security Administration pamphlet for non-resident aliens,
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf
and an article on the American Citizens Abroad website, “Social Security Payments After Renunciation of US Citizenship.” http://americansabroad.org/issues/social-security/social-security-payments-after-renunciation-of-us-citizenship/
There were also some posts about social security a few months ago, starting with this post http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/relinquishment/comment-page-20/#comment-682627 on November 19th and running onto the next page on November 22nd, which might also be of use.
@Sonja
Here is some information on the tax implications of selling your home:
http://taxes.about.com/od/taxplanning/qt/home_sale_tax.htm
@Sonja, why do you believe that you would lose your social security savings? Who told you that? I have seen no evidence to support the common myth that renunciations deprive one of their social security savings.
@sonja,
Also, if you don’t sell your house until after you renounce, and you’re not a covered expat, the equity in your house is OK too. Even then, being married and co-owners of the house, $500,000 of the capital gain is exempt.