Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
KalC
The money from survivor right condo is relatively small. But my main bank deposited it.
You also realize that you can have a modest income and be consider rich according to Obama.
Investment do not pay a lot. I am a worrier but strange enough, I am somewhat brave.
I live in the basement suite because I do not like owning condos the price of real estate in Canada is inflated because of low interest rates. The basement suite also allow me to have a backyard with no stupid condo or apartment rules. A lot of condo or apartment do not allow you to BBQ with charcoal.
I will also talked to a Canadian only lawyer. It is just that sales agreement with the comment about supplying correct tax ID. Where they did not clearly indicate that my name was not my taxpayer ID and I had to apply to IRS.
To obtain my social security number,I would have to go to consulate because they need certified ID.
I also did not enjoy the story of the bank trying to freeze accounts of Canadian,
I should also confirm that there is no way you can be arrested in a consulate.
Em you did not me feel worse, the first letter from IRS is just for the statement of withholding .
I imagine in another month they will get nastier. The time frame of doing thing is ridiculous as it took over 2 week for the mail to arrive and it takes at least 6 weeks to process ID in USA. I have several weeks before they want a response, why nothing has been done. In USA it is a crime to lie to a government official. I doubt that can be pushed in Canada.
Read the US- UK Facta agreement to see what to be done. But realize that if you move from one financial institution to another they will charge FBAR on the maximum in each institution.
What also get to me all these supposed social Democrat ex Americans being so upset that some home lander may not like them. I just want to have a normal life in Canada and never visit USA. I do not hate the USA I just hate the Democrat attempt to steal money I made in Canada. I also can not stand the fact that you need a lawyer to do the littlest thing in USA. The paperwork and the liability in Canada of selling a place 10 time the the place in USA was miniscule.
@Money, just relax and take it easy. You didn’t do anything wrong, so things should be ok. If you left the US 30 years ago, then I don’t see why you should have any problems. Why did you get a letter from the IRS? Do you have US property income?
@ Money
Glad I didn’t heighten your anxiety. We are both worriers. (Some other Brockers are too.) I don’t know what I’d do if a brown envelope from the IRS appeared in our mailbox. I’m just hoping it never happens. I don’t think this is an attempt by any particular “party” in the USA to steal money. Both republicans and democrats in government are ruled by the same monsters (masters). I think it is very much a globalist elite agenda to control the masses by fear and the all-knowing database. However, we can try not to feed the insatiable beasts of power by putting our worries aside now and then and allow ourselves to experience whatever is joyful in our lives. Personally I like small things like watching a bumble bee working a sun flower bloom.
Em
It was the Democratic who changed the simple renunciation in 1994 It was the Democrat who pushed FACTA. It as Obama who pushing paying their fair shares, while giving free stuff to his voter base. Do not let me tell you what I think of Social Security disability. I would have gotten my I-407 got back if some ass hat, who was trying to get on the program who was my condo watcher would have returned. He pretty much gutted all the stuff in my condo and tried to mess up my sale.
Swiss
It was a survivor right condo that my dad put him, my step mother and me on the deed. He did not even tell me about and I found out after he died.
@ Money
I wasn’t very clear in my last comment. There is a push to steal assets BUT it comes from a source which directs both republicans and democrats who are in the presidency or have the upper hand in congress. The (so-called) Powers That Be use republicans for some aspects of their agenda and democrats for other aspects. The US government is absolutely corrupt to the core. If Americans are bent out of shape about people choosing other countries over their beloved homeland then they can just go suck lemons.
Your father certainly messed things up for you by putting your name on that condo deed but he probably thought he was doing the right thing. Who could have guessed what is happening right now with FATCA and all? Certainly not we the innocents who just want to live normal lives in the countries of our choosing.
KalC
Is it worth my while to send in G-639?
Does the freedom of information request results in contacting IRS.
@ money
I hope I’m guessing correctly but the FOIA request would be directed to USCIS so I see no reason why the IRS would be involved. You simply want a copy of the I-407 you lost. Seems to be a reasonable request to make. People lose documents all the time.
I am sorry Em
I was waiting for KaLC.
His situation is closest to me,
I also do not think that some rich US big wig is pushing this, The US banks hate FACTA.
FBAR & FACTA re just wealth tax for people that the Dem likes to pay for the massive social spending and the middle class pay a much lower tax rate than in Canada. Romney comment on 47% was correct. The Republican will never win another presidential election. The legalization of low income illegals will insure that.
swiss sold a survior rights condo.
Read my previous post.
Came across this recently at http://www.expatforum.com/expats/1339018-post20.html
Aside from my surprise at seeing a US gov email address dedicate to renunciations, I was wondering if similar email addresses exist for other major consulate cities?
Just checked for such an email address here in Melbourne. Didn’t find one; possibly insufficient demand to merit one just for renunciations.
Did notice something odd however. When my partner and I renounced last year, our consulate required 450 Australian dollars cash as their fee (no US dollars or credit cards please). At the time, due to the exchange rate, that was actually worth US$472. The fee was an ugly hardship for us as we’re hardly well-to-do. Since then our currency has plunged. When checking just now, I noticed they raised their fee to 495 Australian dollars. Grasping for money. They even made us pay for our own self-addresses registered mailers in which the CLNs finally got sent; surely given the fees we paid, they could have spared us those extra dollars. Aussies take note: as our dollar drops in value, the cost for renouncing will be climbing upward.
@Benedict
Just wanted to let you know that I check my email umpteen times a day hoping for your news from the DoS, just as I’m sure you check your Canada Post mail box…
@ozteddies
Ha! Yes they would do that. Reminds me of my previous country where landlords always set rents in $US – until the dollar dropped, then suddenly they started charging in local currency. Dishonest opportunists.
Whatever the fee I am hoping to avoid it with relinquishment.
I am a regular reader of this site and first time poster. I am looking for information regarding relinquishing requirements related to being a minor. I was born in the US, moved to Canada and became a Canadian citizen in 1979 (I was 13). I have never worked in the US, do not own US property, do not hold a US passport, and have never filed US taxes. I have always believed I am Canadian (Canadian mother/US father). I have been collecting the necessary paperwork for relinquishing, but have come to understand the fact I was a minor when I took my Canadian citizenship oath my be an issue.
I have searched the Brock site and have only found general references to being a minor. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction to obtain clarification? Thank you . Geri
@Geri
I am the one you need to emulate by reading my postings here…
Once done, I will try to answer whatever I can…
I am currently in the process of Relinquishing and awaiting formal CLN documentation, and once complete, I can better help you…
Go back through this thread and read the discourse between WhatAmI and myself…starting at:
WhatAmI says
June 17, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Thanks Benedict Arnold be me. Seems I hadn’t read far enough to catch key parts of your thread.
I will be one of the many interested to hear your about your results. kind regards. Geri
Telling us what we already know:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/US_residents_renounce_citizenship.html?cid=36688996
This just posted at Jack Townsend’s blog…
Tax Consequences Resulting From Renouncing U. S. Citizenship by Lacey E. Strachan
@ Just Me
This article from Jack Townsend’s blog is concise and clear, and tells you exactly what you need to know, including the IRS ‘s attitude toward non-filers of FBARs who are up to date otherwise, and whether (or not, in this case) you need to have filed FBARs in order to avoid being a covered expatriate. Thanks, I found it helpful and forwarded it to my US tax man. He had not wanted to do my last filing because he hasn’t had much experience with this, and I hope with this legal clarification he will feel confident enough to do it. Otherwise I will do it myself, but I’d rather not.
Does anyone know the US’s position on triple citizenship? On the consulate site there is mention of the complications of dual citizenship, what about having 3?
@kb33
Casual googling didn’t turn up anything official, but I work at a bank where we have to check people’s passports, and have met several people with multiple nationality, sometimes one of them is US. It doesn’t seem to bother any of the governments involved – I suppose once you allow dual citizenship it’s not logical to put number restrictions on it. (Though “logical” and “US” should not be used in the same sentence.)
In my personal experience with US embassies abroad – my only contact with US officials since I was a teenager – I have never been given any flak whatsoever about my dual citizenship. In entering the US once I was treated shockingly but as that is rumoured to be general policy at JFK I can’t draw any conclusions from the experience.
By the way at work we are also required to sign people on a declaration of non-US citizenship and check for a US birthplace as a result of the whole FATCA mess. I’ve run into a few “accidental Americans” who had no idea they were citizens (e.g. born in Chicago to non-US parents, left at the age of four), and my heart sinks to tell them of the implications. 90% of the people who find they have to fill in a W-9 and have their information reported to the US government decide that it’s best for a non-US family member to open the account, or they just drop the whole thing.
Whenever I have to sign people on the non-US form I want to go into a rant about the US government but usually restrain myself….. so much for unofficial goodwill ambassadors.
I renounced in late 2012 in London. Phew. UK banks etc are now busily complying with FATCA. What (if anything) should ex-US citizens do, in terms of e.g., pre-emptive calming communication with their bank? A US birthplace is one of the 7 ‘US indicia’ in the US-UK IGA that triggers scrutiny by the FFI (‘foreign financial institution’). Any advice on what a now (irrevocably) non-US citizen can do to reassure a probably jumpy FFI about such an unavoidable and now irrelevant US ‘indicium’?
KingOfTheRoad,
Your Certificate of Loss of US Nationality (CLN) will be your most important proof that you are no longer to be considered a US Person. You should be free and that is the proof. There has been some reporting of bank employees not yet understanding what a CLN represents. We should look for documentation that we can print to accompany the CLN as backup for our education of bank employees if need be. Now that we are out, we cannot let our countries’ banks (nor our government representatives) railroad us.
My understanding is that UK FIs report whatever they find to HMRC, not to the US. But your bank might ask for ID as part of an application for something, but you can choose to give them an alternative proof of ID. If for some reason they decide to chase you, they will ask you for information and then you send them a copy of your CLN. If you do it before they ask, they won’t know how to deal with it. I bank with HSBC, and they will certainly be on it. Not a peep yet.
As for HMRC, my tax man knows that I have renounced. So does the broker who handles my mortgage, who has a copy of my UK passport ID page to send to institutions that need to know. So far, so good. Your stockbrokerage firm doesn’t report, at least not on ISAs or SIPPs. But if they ask, you give them the CLN. I don’t think with big institutions caught up in the implementation mess that FATCA will be you need to muddy the waters. Let them come to you.
But maybe you’re worried about things I haven’t thought of yet? If so, sorry.
@calgary
Thanks. The problem is not just railroading though. Am concerned that UK banks might erroneously include renunciants’ accounts in the data they will be reporting to the UK government, for onward transmission to Uncle Sam – possibly without doing us the courtesy of checking if this is appropriate. Sensible documentation that we could individually use to prevent this would be very useful to the 1000s of us who have renounced.