Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@norman,
I love your idea about a protective return. I will discuss with my accountant. If the IRS are as short handed as we are told, anything could go through.
I still think you are also correct about just going dark. I am still hoping for a massive movement of Canadians ( and all non resident citizens) forming a resistance “ just saying No!” To complying with the Transition Tax.
It’s a killer.
If anyone hears of people not complying, please post.
“If the IRS are as short handed as we are told, anything could go through.”
The point of a protective return isn’t for the return to go through, it’s to prove that you presented your refund claim in a timely manner even when you didn’t know if the claim would become valid or not. If you wait to learn that your claim was valid, and you belatedly submit your refund claim, a statute of limitations denies your refund.
Your accountant should know about protective returns. I just don’t know if there’s such a thing as a protective AMENDED return. Your accountant would know how to try though; just write “PROTECTIVE AMENDED RETURN” at the top of Form 1040X and claim a refund of the Sec. 965 payment that you already paid.
Or not. Track record.
“Track record.”
Yep. 40 years of silence on FBAR then BLAMMO!
No blammo for non-residents actually.
You keep forgetting FATCA.
@ Karen, maz57, Bird Person. Thanks for the comments and link Karen. It seems that one would still have to file, still have FACTA and have to file FABAR’s and still be subject to tax on any foreign corporation one maybe own or involved in so really not much changes does it apart from the point about no tax on non us income?. There still seems to be alot of reporting and is not anything like a residence based tax system. As I say I have an appointment to renounce next month and was wondering if this bill may make like easier for US Citizens living abroad and if it did whether I should not renounce and wait and see what happens but this may take years and years to go to a residneced based tax system as everyone had hoped? Cancel and not renonce or renounce? Emmm what to do.
@kabby
Do you have any good reason for keeping US citizenship, do you think you may wish to work or live there again?
With FBAR still in place US citizens will still be seen as toxic to banks and fiancial institutions, so on the balance it doesn’t change much, US citizens abroad are not free of the US, they are just ‘out on loan’.
@ Kabby: If you are unsure, you are free to cancel your appointment and wait to see if the bill is passed, and what it means for you. (I cancelled my first appointment, waited another year, and kept the second appointment.) There is no black mark against you at the DoS for doing so, but I would not be a no-show. (Should you wish an appointment later, you have to start all over again.)
Many on this site will provide opinions—often influenced by our histories—but no one here really knows what the USG will do in the next two years, let alone five or ten.
“US Rep. Richard Neal takes the helm as House Ways and Means Committee chairman”
Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t that mean that for the time being it will be Neal, not Brady or any other Republican, who will determine whether Holding’s bill gets a vote?
Plaxy,
I believe that is correct.
Don’t hold your breath. It’s one crazy democratic system they have down there
And it could always be changed back again!
@BP
Absolutely!
How can anyone trust what the US agrees, contracts, does or says now, as all can be changed on a dime whenever a new administration takes office as Iran and others have learned at their cost.
BirdPerson:
“…it could always be changed back again!”
Worse than that – the OECD accepts the US position that all US citizens are forever tax-resident in the US. Until/unless that definition is changed by the US, or the OECD adopts a standard, rights-respecting definition, it seems inevitable that US citizens are going to be treated by other countries, and by banks, as US-tax-resident.
Benefits I gained by renouncing:
* No problems opening bank accounts
* I can travel to the US on my proper passport
* When travelling to the US, I can stay with my family while going through Customs & Immigration
* While visiting the US, should serious trouble arise, I would have access to consular assistance – for the first time in my life!
There is a fundamental misunderstanding on IBS about how Congress works.
Anyone can introduce a bill. Only those with support from the speaker have any chance. For example, yesterday a bill was introduced to abolish the Electoral College. No chance.
Unfortunately, Congressperson Holding’s introduction of a bill is essentially meaningless for us in spite of hard work by those concerned.
Sauve qui peut.
“Only those with support from the speaker have any chance. ”
Where tax is concerned, support from the Chair of Ways & Means is what matters, from what I’ve read.
The new Chair is Richard Neal, who seems unlikely to support the Holding bill.
“Anyone can introduce a bill. Only those with support from the speaker have any chance. For example, yesterday a bill was introduced to abolish the Electoral College. No chance.”
True, but how many get out of comittee for a floor vote?
Agree with Heidi.
I’ve never felt so good as relinquishing! No, I wouldn’t have done so had the US gov’t not made my life as an expat so TOXIC in our world. F-them. I can now run my own business, in my OWN country, and not have that BS worry behind me.
Happy to be free!!! Now, my US-born children will have to decide. I want them to renounce before, 1) they raise the price again (no law to raise it to 20,000USD, is there?), or worse, 2) NO. you can NEVER renounce.
I’m sorry. At this point in the game, anything goes in that insane, genocidal, down-the-drain country.
Is anyone else wondering what will happen to consular services during the govt shutdown? First the good news: In a U.S. State Department Press Briefing dated December 18, 2018, Robert Palladino, Deputy Spokesperson, stated that ” …you can expect that certain things are going to be prioritized and will continue. And two of the most important functions that the State Department is able to provide are our visa and passport services. ” However, now the bad news: In the “42-page document” Palladino refers to little mention is made of consular services.
https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2018/12/288178.htm
@Seniorexpat: I renounced in early Dec. in Canada and was told my CLN would take 1-3 months. I anticipate a delay, because I do not assume that “visa and passport services” are provided by the same staff those who issue CLNS. The Consular Officer spoke specifically of “review by DoS lawyers in Washington”. The website for US Embassy and Consulates in Canada advises that the Embassy and Consulates are open, but “website updates will be limited until full appropriations resume.”
Speaking of renunciation and CLN, my wife renounced in Quebec City on October 17 and she received her CLN on December 24. So it took about 10 weeks.
@ Formerpatriot; Thanks for the timeline, it is within the limits the Consular Officer gave me; however, with the subsequent shutdown, the timing may be different when one’s CLN is in progress.
@Heidi, You ask do I have any good reason for keeping US citizenship and do I think I wish to work or live or work there again. Not sure is my answer but its years since last there and have not even ben back on a visit lately for maybe 9 years. No family or work ties there just friends but do remember the good times I had with them and the laughs we had but that was then and i am older and things have moved on now. 61 years old and health care is another worry to think about even with Medicare. Maybe i am just reluctant to let soemthing go even though its toxic and causing anxiety. @ Duchesse. How long before your initial appointment did you can cancel as mine is less that 4 weeks now? When you cancelled the first time did you have to start the application and send off all the forms again the second time and what made you not go ahead the first time and chnage your mind later to go ahead? plaxy, Birdperson, Jan, thanks for the comments. I think i am suffering from anxiety syndrome and letting go and I do dtend to wrry alot and one worry is am I doing the right thing. It seems however reading all your comments this so called Bill is likely not to make life abroad not that much simpler and different to what it is now and there is still as Heidi says all the FABAR reproting year in year out.This is keeping me awake at night as I go back and forth. Maybe once I have renounced I wil feel better, who knows.