Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
Congratulations – sounds like you’re all set! 🙂
I completed my renunciation at Ottawa on August 30. Overall it was a smooth process, and the embassy staff were very helpful, kind and professional during the entire thing. One other renunciant was there, a lady who has been living in Canada since 1966, and was visibly irritated at the entire FATCA debacle.
Only one hitch arose: my appointment was at 1330, so shortly beforehand I visited my bank’s branch two blocks away, only to be informed that the morning appointments had cleaned them out of US cash. I had my credit card with me, so I figured I would use it instead.
Be forewarned however that the embassy cashier does not use chip and PIN, but the standard US-style swipe and signature. This transaction was declined as it looked suspicious to CIBC, so I had to make a mad rush back to the bank branch, and get a bank draft made out to the Department of State. I returned to the embassy, went back through security only to find the cashier had gone home for the day. They did email me the receipt the next day however. After paying, I recited the oath of renunciation and was on my way. Somewhat anticlimactic walking out the front door as a “free” person after the multi-year buildup to that moment.
I parked my car at the Byward garage, and upon entering my car, I see that I had a text message from CIBC asking me to reply to it in order to authorise the credit card transaction earlier. Rather comical in hindsight that I could have immediately fixed the payment issue “if only” I had had my phone with me.
Not sure if anyone else has heard this explanation, but they told me that the process involves scanning all the paperwork and then sending it to “a team of lawyers” (their words) in DC for them to scrutinize and approve, before issuing a CLN. I was also asked off-handedly what my reason for renunciation was, since I did not provide a separate statement. I explained that I have been living in Canada for nearly a decade, my wife is Canadian, my home is here, my job and everything else is here. The vice-consul then said “so, you’ve made your entire life in Canada then?” and made some notes on the cover sheet that contained internal information for the Department of State.
She also said CLNs were taking one to several months to issue.
Forgot to add: I’ve also crossed the border three times since then on my Canadian passport, with nary a comment on my US place of birth.
@birdperson
Congratulations, that has to be a record.
Good to know there are some decent caring people working in the State Dept.
Enjoy your trip and your freedom.
Be forewarned however that the embassy cashier does not use chip and PIN, but the standard US-style swipe and signature. This transaction was declined as it looked suspicious to CIBC,’
Naturally. Any payment to the US government helps finance acts of terrorism.
‘I parked my car at the Byward garage, and upon entering my car, I see that I had a text message from CIBC asking me to reply to it in order to authorise the credit card transaction earlier. Rather comical in hindsight that I could have immediately fixed the payment issue “if only” I had had my phone with me.’
Really? At the US embassy in Tokyo, phones are seized at the guard’s desk along with tape recorders and pocket knives.
I think I had to leave all be belongings with the guards at rhe Tokyo Embassy, including phone and iPad and my work bag. The only thing besides the paperwork to renew my passport they let me enter with was my wallet.
@Arjan “She also said CLNs were taking one to several months to issue.”
It took just short of four months for my CLN to arrive.
An update on my wife’s renunciation:
– July 26: She sent an email to the Department of State requesting a renunciation appointment in Quebec City.
– September 14: She received an email from the Department of State informing her that her appointment had been set for October 17.
– October 17: She renounced her US citizenship.
All went well at the Consulate in Quebec City. Everyone was polite. I had told my wife that they would not ask her why she wanted to renounce. To my surprise, they did! She replied that she had lived in Canada for the last 25 years, that her kids were now settling into jobs/houses/spouses/kids in Canada and that she was now certain that she would never want to move back to the USA. She also told them that holding two citizenships had become an inconvenience.
In a way it feels like throwing 2350 USD (3050 CAD) out the window. But from the “peace of mind” point of view, it’s a good deal. One last IRS filing, one last FBAR filing, then peace. No more 10 000$ penalty threats.
Duchesse: Did you get your appointment?
“In a way it feels like throwing 2350 USD (3050 CAD) out the window.”
As I now see it, the CLN is more like the fee that must be paid by a dual citizen, in order to achieve full
single-citizenship rights.
Like paying a visa fee to achieve residence rights. Well worth the money, if the money can be raised to pay.
Congratulations to your wife on her successful purchase. 🙂
My CLN arrived from Ottawa yesterday via Xpresspost. It included a signed copy of the Statement of Understanding and a signed copy of the Oath. All three documents had raised seals as well. My appointment was on 30 August, the approval stamp was dated 24 September, and they mailed it on 12 October. So three weeks for approval from DC, and three more to drop it in an envelope.
Unlike others I have seen on this site, there was not a cover letter nor a receipt letter to be signed and sent back. And my cancelled passport was not included either. I was hoping to get it back for souvenir value because of all the stamps, but if not, no big deal. It feels like getting a certified copy of your divorce decree.
Congratulations, Formerpatriot and Ms Fp; a relief for you and family.
Just got my appt. notice yesterday: Dec. 5, Montreal. Took 10 weeks to hear from Consulate but I am happy this is not dragging into 2019.
Congratulations, Arjan.
I think I got my cancelled passport back separately.
Duchesse: Great news! 2018 will be your last filing year! Let us know how it goes in Montreal.
Renunciation was a no-brainer for my son. He was only 4 years old when we moved to Canada. His wife is french-speaking and they have no attachment to the USA.
For my wife, it is more complicated. She feels like she is giving up a part of herself. But in the end, it’s pretty much a simple financial decision. It’s choosing between (a) filing obligations for the next 30 years, which will become increasingly complicated when she retires, with the prospect of having to pay 2500$ per year in accounting fees, or (b) renounce now. So she chose (b).
One negative side effect: she won’t have a chance to vote against Trump…
@Formerpatriot. “One negative side effect: she won’t have a chance to vote against Trump…”
I’d say she just registered quite a definitive vote against Trump, not to mention the rest of the unholy, dysfunctional US mess the US has become for good measure. Congratulations!
“I’d say she just registered quite a definitive vote against Trump”
I’d say she just registered quite a definitive vote against Obama.
“not to mention the rest of the unholy, dysfunctional US mess the US has become for good measure.”
Yes of course.
Though does this mean a billionaire could cast 300,000 votes against it?
Contacted the Edinburgh US Embassy to enquire about renouncing and was told no need to complete the DS4076 form but just complete “The Loss of citizenship questionaire”. It asks for periods of residence from to with months and years but cant remember exaclty the dates months years I was resident and what do they term resident. Is this checked by the embassy or the State department? I guess I can put approx dates but then worry this mayb not be correct and may cause me problems.Does anyone know the answer?
@ Kabby,
I couldn’t remember some dates specifically either. So, I used the 1st of the month and put apprx before the date. (The form I had to use was the 4079 and it wouldn’t accept typing anything but a date in the box, so I wrote “apprx” in pen.) No one at the consulate said anything about it and I received a CLN.
@Kabby
Back in 2012, when enduring this ghastly process (and meekly following my lawyer’s instructions), I spent untold hours scouring cancelled passports, ancient desk diaries etc to extract precise dates covering decades and decades of to-ing and fro-ing across the Atlantic. Eventually, I generated a well-supported document – displaying a list that ran to several pages. The US Embassy guy looked at my beautiful list in utter bewilderment. After studying it, he ascertained that (after my childhood), there had been only a single period of substantive US residence (i.e., lasting more than a few weeks). He then crossed out ALL the other details, and retained only those two phases of residence for submission to the State Dept. Very sensible – but who on earth expects any kind of sense out of the US, ever? I was issued my precious CLN without delay. So save yourself a lot of time (and money on pointless legal fees) and keep it simple. Good luck.
I renounced just two months ago. I couldn’t remember all the dates either, so I put them in and added ‘approx’. No one cared at the Embassy, and I have my CLN. By the way, I only included my main times of US residence, not any trips back which were only for a few weeks’ duration.
I used some approximate dates as well for my renunciation. I think I even explicitly mentioned it to the consulate. Wasn’t an issue. Nor should it be – you’re renouncing, so exact dates have little, if any, relevance to the real matter at hand.
Who cares? After all, this isn’t your first date with the US, it’s your last. The IRS will deliver one last fuck, but it’s still your last date.
ND, do you really have to use such language?
I am not prudish.
I am not religious.
I am not conservative.
Yet, your language bothers me.
Is it the obfuscation or the profanity?
Google found 175 matches on this site. Is that really all? But if I searched for the most offensive term, I bet there would be more.
But it’s OK, change the offensive words to “screwer” and “screw” and it’s fine with me.