Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
I am visiting the states for the first time since renoucing. Little worried and want some advice. On the ESTA application it says that it is voluntary to give info on what Social Media you are on and your alias. I was thinking of uninstalling my Facebook app on telephone and Tab. Am I being paranoid? Entering the US in Philadelphia. Anyone have any experience with Philadelphia’s immigration. New York can be really trying especially customs.
If you’re worried about past non-compliance, surely they would have no reason to be nosy about your social media use, given that you’ll have already provided your actual name and your SSN. I haven’t seen any reports of former citizens being harrassed at entry over past non-compliance. I doubt if they’d bother, unless there was an outstanding assessed tax bill, but I haven’t actually tried visiting since renouncing, so that’s just my opinion.
Someone with ESTA experience may be able to comment on usual practice.
Congratulations, Cheryl!!!
Wow, and I thought “I” had it bad trying to get out!
It’s a good thing you’ve removed that taint. Now the entire USA gov’t can rest peacefully knowing you won’t be there to offshore all of your millions. Best to leave that to the pro’s, like the US Prez, Congress, & etc.
😉
Thanks Jane. Yes, it feels great to be vindicated. I just hope others can use the decision in my case to help resolve their own case or self certify. That would be so great.
Oh, I’m sure it’ll help many. Even having those links and forms together, alone, is great. Your testimonial says it all. I hope others find their way here to see this.
@Marsha Thalin
“I was thinking of uninstalling my Facebook app on telephone and Tab. Am I being paranoid?”
Oh heck, THAT’S not paranoid! Paranoid is thinking how utterly unbelievable it would be that you have NO online presence? I’d be thinking it would make me even more suspicious– lol. Yeah, I’m no help.
Seriously, playing Devil’s advocate maybe you buy a refundable ticket from where you intend to land, to the nearest non-US airport? Worst-worse case scenario, you have a backup plan that gives you a chance to rest and consider the options then.
@ Cheryl,
I’ve put your story on its own page. The html so far isn’t cooperating with the indenting, so no indents yet – I’ll look further into that. If you would like any other edits to the page, you can leave me a comment or e-mail me at pacifica at isaacbrocksociety dot ca
Thanks again! Congratulations again, too! – that was some battle! So glad you prevailed, and I expect your experience will really benefit other people with the trail you blazed for them.
It’s listed on the “How to Renounce/Relinquish” index in the Sidebar’s “Important Information” box:
Anyone willing to put their head above the parapet and state whether they renounced without being tax compliant? What was your rationale?
@BirdPerson, depends on what you mean by not tax compliant. I renounced first so I wasn’t compliant, but did the bit of tax stuff I needed to do afterwards. I only had FBARs to file since I had no income/assets, but really I sort of wish now that I hadn’t bothered. Cost a fair amount to become compliant and all the IRS knew about me was my CLN and SSN since I never filed a tax return when I lived in the States.
Renounced without being tax compliant
Do you mean being compliant before or after renouncing?
We renounced before being compliant. Subsequently, filed 5 yrs of 1040s and fbars in a so called quiet disclosure.. We were advised by a respected accountant to do streamlined but opted for QD instead. No tax owing so no penalties.
We have relatives and heirs in the US . That’s the only reason we bothered with the QD.
I relinquished in 2015 and I didn’t send them one single form.
Never will. I changed banks to one that didn’t use the W-8. I will never followed out one US form, including ESTA. Period, done with the US.
The last form they got was my application for my CLN. Last IRS form was 1991.
We know a blog owner who renounced without being FBAR compliant, but that’s different from not being tax compliant. If I recall correctly, he was tax compliant.
From a December 2017 article on enforcement of the exit tax:
“…California Bar Recommends Legislative Changes to Improve Enforcement
To correct this, the State Bar of California’s proposal recommends that the U.S. legislature amend the Internal Revenue Code and related laws to close the information gaps and improve communication between the departments. The proposed laws, if adopted would essentially change the order of filing, requiring a U.S. taxpayer to complete Form 8854 and pay the exit tax before completing expatriation through the State Department or Department of Homeland Security. They would also allow the departments to exchange information about expatriating taxpayers, to the extent necessary to enforce the exit tax.
In addition, the Bar recommends requiring expatriates to consent to ongoing personal jurisdiction in the U.S. for five years. This would allow the IRS to seek enforcement in U.S. courts, rather than filing tax collection matters abroad.
The changes proposed by the State Bar of California seem minor. However, taken together they could close the gap that makes enforcing the exit tax against expatriates difficult for the IRS. This would raise the cost of expatriation substantially, but it would also ensure that U.S. taxpayers were given notice and an opportunity to participate in the process, defending themselves against unnecessary taxation.”
https://www.jrviola.com/tax-news/2017/12/08/enforcing-exit-tax-expatriates-california-state-bar-recommends-change/
As Phil Hodgen so wisely put it, to paraphrase
‘Get out while you can before it gets progressively worse’
@Stephen Kish and @heidi:
Wow. It’s only going to get worse unfortunately. Get out while you can indeed.
My renunciation appointment is in Ottawa in six days, can’t get here soon enough.
My total assets come to less than 10% of the ‘covered expat’ amount of US$2M–but I still feel ill at reading stuff like this.
My appointment is in London on 6 September…
@Arjan
Just out of curiosity, when did you send your email requesting a renunciation appointment and when did you get the email informing you that your appointment is scheduled for August 30?
@Formerpatriot:
My initial email was sent on April 3, and on May 7 they replied and set my appointment for May 29. Some conflicts came up later and I had to ask for a reschedule for a couple of months down the road.
So about 60 days request to appointment date, not as bad as I’ve heard in the past.
‘the Bar recommends requiring expatriates to consent to ongoing personal jurisdiction in the U.S. for five years. This would allow the IRS to seek enforcement in U.S. courts, rather than filing tax collection matters abroad.’
Looks like they are trying to combine parts of the old system which required 10 yrs of tax compliance before finally being free, with the new system of assessment for an exit tax..
I had a friend who went through the old system and he was audited in the last few months of his tenth year!!
Looks like they realise they have problems collecting from abroad , but wouldn’t they have to extradite to bring someone over to face a US court?
heidi, well, they’d have to try. I doubt many countries would agree to it though since it’s not a criminal matter.
Why is it the US just can’t let go no matter what?
It’s like being stalked by an ex. I can’t believe that I’m having to argue for a relinquishment. You’d think they’d say, ‘Well, if you don’t want us, we don’t want you.’
@Medea
1. Because they need to control the world.
2. Because they are trillions of doallrs in debt.
3. Because they can’t believe anyone would want to give up ‘the best citizenship in the world’
4. Because they don’t give a f*** how other countries do it, they are exceptional.
@BirdPerson
They can’t understand rejection of the ‘best country in the world’
The rest of the civilised world is more pragmatic.
heidi, one of these days they’re going to find out they’re just like everyone else. Only then will things start to change – hopefully.